Very, very frustrated...suggestions?

[Matt_B]

Ok, I've been stuck weighing around 195-200 lbs for about 3-4 months. I eat complex carbs and protein at every stinking meal and get shakes/bars as snacks. Originally I thought I wasn't getting enough calories to grow, but I swear, I eat every two hours. My body fat has stayed around 11-13 % for sometime now. I'm just in a damn rut and can't get out.
My training split is the following:
(Most exercise are 3-4 sets of 12-15 reps)
Day One: Chest and Abs
Day Two: Bi's and Calves
Day Three: Off
Day Four: Shoulders/Tri's
Day Five: Off
Day Six: Back and Abs
Day Seven: Quads/Hams

-I'll soon be starting a strength cycle in which I'll increase the weight and # of sets and lower the reps to 8-10, maybe less. Been doing this routine for about a month now.
Any f'ing suggestions as to why I can't grow?
Oh, I'm 23, and about 6'3", if that makes a difference. Just tall and lean and can't get bigger!
God, I'm pissed.

[Mikey1]

i would start by listing your daily diet....just because you "think" you are eating enough, does not mean you are....have you counted your calories and protein intake????

it also sounds like you are relying too much on supplements.....a protein shake or bar is ok here and there, but dont rely on them.....real food is always better, and should be a priority

are you over trained?....whens the last time you took a week or two off from training????....how many exersises and sets are you doing per workout???

[Gollum]

Brother, I feel your pain. I'm a bit stuck myself at the mo.

Mikey's right. We need more info. Then we can make some F'ing suggestions

[Mikey1]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Brother, I feel your pain. I'm a bit stuck myself at the mo.

Mikey's right. We need more info. Then we can make some F'ing suggestions

GOLLUM IS STUCK???......what has the world come to!!!.....i thought you were the body building king !!!!

LOL

PS...i tried to PM you and it says your full....lol

[Gollum]

Just cleaned the box.

I said a BIT stuck. A BIT. A small amount! I already have a plan of attack. And it involves a tremendous amount of food. And pain.

And if I'm the king, we're all in a lot of trouble! ROFL!

[ZkokainZ]

I used to have the same problem, but I realized that for me gaining weight and staying at 11% bodyfat just wasn't working. If you have 11% Bodyfat then maybe you need to eat more rich proteins instead of relying on supplements. It is a true science to gain muscle and stay lean. It takes a lot of knowledge about your body and the right amount of macromolecules you need to make yourself grow. Now everyone is different. SOme guys can easily do both, but everyone is different. What I did was start eating real food like steak, chicken (not just white meat) fatty fishes, whole milk, peanut butter all the time and it worked.

5'9
240 pounds

[Mikey1]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Just cleaned the box.

I said a BIT stuck. A BIT. A small amount! I already have a plan of attack. And it involves a tremendous amount of food. And pain.

And if I'm the king, we're all in a lot of trouble! ROFL!

LOL.....i guess even the best of us run into problems sometimes

[Matt_B]

To clear some info up:
-My shake/bar intake is limited to one a day.
-My calorie intake (I counted last week) is around 3000-3500. Protien w/ supps is around 185/day.

I mean, sh*t, do I really have to pack on fat to get bigger and then lean down? I'd like to still see some abs and so would my girlfriend.

[Dirk D.]

You're eating enough to gain muscle.

Cut your workouts in half, and arrange it so that you can at least double the rest days. Muscle grows outside the gym, and if you only have two off days, you don't have enough time to grow muscle. You also need energy to grow muscles, and if you use all your energy in the gym, your body won't have any to pack on muscle. No amount of good food will make up for overdoing it in the gym. What's better, and more efficient, is to do a sensible amount of exercise, then let the calories you do eat go to making new muscle, not just recovering from your workouts. You must recover first, then your body can make new muscle. Make it easier for your body to recover in the first place, and you'll put muscle on quicker than you can imagine. At your weight, 3500 calories is more than enough.

Your workouts shouldn't last for more than 30 minutes. If they do, don't do them faster, eliminate sets/exercises. Stick to basic compounds. Forget the cables and little dumbells. Don't workout more days a week than you have off. Muscle grows outside the gym.

Try it for 3 months, you may shock yourself. If you work out hard (I don't mean for long periods of time and often), you won't loose muscle. You haven't made any progress in a while, and any little dinky changes, like bodypart splits, days of the week you train, DB Press instead of BB Press, 3 sets of 10 instead of 4 sets of 6, isn't going to magically put 20 lbs on you in a half year. A drastic change might. What do you have to loose?

Dirk

[Mikey1]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

I mean, sh*t, do I really have to pack on fat to get bigger and then lean down? .

unfortunately the answer to that is yes.....its impossible to gain 100% lean muscle

[Matt_B]

Originally Posted by Dirk D.

You're eating enough to gain muscle.

Cut your workouts in half, and arrange it so that you can at least double the rest days. Muscle grows outside the gym, and if you only have two off days, you don't have enough time to grow muscle. You also need energy to grow muscles, and if you use all your energy in the gym, your body won't have any to pack on muscle. No amount of good food will make up for overdoing it in the gym. What's better, and more efficient, is to do a sensible amount of exercise, then let the calories you do eat go to making new muscle, not just recovering from your workouts. You must recover first, then your body can make new muscle. Make it easier for your body to recover in the first place, and you'll put muscle on quicker than you can imagine. At your weight, 3500 calories is more than enough.

Your workouts shouldn't last for more than 30 minutes. If they do, don't do them faster, eliminate sets/exercises. Stick to basic compounds. Forget the cables and little dumbells. Don't workout more days a week than you have off. Muscle grows outside the gym.

Try it for 3 months, you may shock yourself. If you work out hard (I don't mean for long periods of time and often), you won't loose muscle. You haven't made any progress in a while, and any little dinky changes, like bodypart splits, days of the week you train, DB Press instead of BB Press, 3 sets of 10 instead of 4 sets of 6, isn't going to magically put 20 lbs on you in a half year. A drastic change might. What do you have to loose?

Dirk

Sorry, but does this seem reasonable to anybody else? Dirk, it just doesn't seem likely that lifting only 3 times a week for less than half an hour is going to place enough stress on my muscles to make them grow. I'm interested to hear other takes on Dirks strategy.
I do agree, to a certain extent. Your nervous system can become over-stressed if one lifts too much. However, muscles do repair in 48-72 hours. I thought by doing the split routine that I have been doing, I was giving them sufficient rest.

[Matt_B]

Originally Posted by Mikey1

unfortunately the answer to that is yes.....its impossible to gain 100% lean muscle

That's what I was afraid of.

[Mikey1]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

Sorry, but does this seem reasonable to anybody else? Dirk, it just doesn't seem likely that lifting only 3 times a week for less than half an hour is going to place enough stress on my muscles to make them grow.

its more than enough stress.....some muscles can be TOTALLY fatigued after 3-4 heavy sets

[Dirk D.]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

Sorry, but does this seem reasonable to anybody else? Dirk, it just doesn't seem likely that lifting only 3 times a week for less than half an hour is going to place enough stress on my muscles to make them grow. I'm interested to hear other takes on Dirks strategy.
I do agree, to a certain extent. Your nervous system can become over-stressed if one lifts too much. However, muscles do repair in 48-72 hours. I thought by doing the split routine that I have been doing, I was giving them sufficient rest.

If you do your sets properly, it's more than enough. You may do better on even less. No amount of sloppy half hearted sets will produce the gains very few properly done sets will. It doesn't take long to stimulate your muscles properly. It's how you do your set(s), not how many of them you do.

About recovery. One hard 'balls to the wall' set of deads, bench, leg presses, etc., done properly, leaves me sore in the target area, and sometimes in auxilliary areas, for 3-4 days afterwards. Not that soreness is an indication of growth stimulation, but it is an indication that my muscles have been damaged. They can't fully recover, let alone overcompensate, in 72 hours if they're still sore. The length of time needed to recover (and overcompensate) is directly proportional to the damage done to your muscles.

Spliting up your body doesn't necessarily give the CNS a break. The CNS doesn't care if today is chest day, and yesterday was leg day. Everyday you workout, you're working your body, which means you're hammering your CNS. If you've stopped gaining, it's likely that your CNS just can't handle to increased stress anymore.

Dirk

[SoMdHunter]

Trust them, if you do curls at 70% of your max one time lift, you will sufficiently fatigue your bi's in only 4 sets of 10-12 reps.

But don't take it from us, try this thread: It has the basics to learn from.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=101841

[Matt_B]

Although I agree with you guys that you have to go "all out" and work with at HIGH intensities, I maintain that I do train like that. I push to failure at every damn set and past failure with a spotter on most final sets.
I don't know. I guess I'll try fewer exercises and fewer workout days for a month and see how it goes.
If anyone has more suggestions, they're still appreciated. Thanks fellas.

[Zensuji]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Just cleaned the box.

what about the pm box

[Zensuji]

Originally Posted by Mikey1

its more than enough stress.....some muscles can be TOTALLY fatigued after 3-4 heavy sets

bump and alot of people gain great off a 2 split only doing 20sets total per week

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

Ok, I've been stuck weighing around 195-200 lbs for about 3-4 months. I eat complex carbs and protein at every stinking meal and get shakes/bars as snacks. Originally I thought I wasn't getting enough calories to grow, but I swear, I eat every two hours. My body fat has stayed around 11-13 % for sometime now. I'm just in a damn rut and can't get out.
My training split is the following:
(Most exercise are 3-4 sets of 12-15 reps)
Day One: Chest and Abs
Day Two: Bi's and Calves
Day Three: Off
Day Four: Shoulders/Tri's
Day Five: Off
Day Six: Back and Abs
Day Seven: Quads/Hams

-I'll soon be starting a strength cycle in which I'll increase the weight and # of sets and lower the reps to 8-10, maybe less. Been doing this routine for about a month now.
Any f'ing suggestions as to why I can't grow?
Oh, I'm 23, and about 6'3", if that makes a difference. Just tall and lean and can't get bigger!
God, I'm pissed.

My psychic left elbow tells me that you've got a mix of things going...

I'm guessing you haven't been at the iron game for too long considering your size and weight... So I think part of what's happening is that your noob gains have dried up, and (No Offense) you're forced now to learn how to really train for success...

First off your split, is kind of a train wreck, you're only giving complimentary muscles 2 days between working them again...
Try a simple split like:
Chest/Tri's
Rest/Cardio (30 mins)
Legs
Rest/Cardio (30 mins)
Back/Bi's
Rest
Rest

And then filter in some appropriate light shoulder work where it would fit into Chest day and Back day... But don't go crazy on shoulders, they get reamed as it is with all upper body work...
Then fit in a pair of moderate ab training sessions where you see fit, just as long as they're not on SOLID REST DAYS... And not on back to back days...
Make sure that your total sets per body part (Something you're not clear on in your post) is between 12-15 sets TOTAL for the week...

Then take your current diet, and add a handful of peanuts and a tall glass of milk per day...

Also start a training journal, record what you do, what you eat, how much sleep you get, your general mood etc... This tool will help you a few months from now to look back and figure out nuances and trends in your training so that in the future you can know your body well enough to train smart for success...

As for the whole "Gaining Body fat" thing... (True there are methods and claims out there, that you can gain muscle and drop fat at the same time... However many of those I find to be either unproven, or high science which is fit for the hands of more advanced trainers.) For those of us still slogging through the new, and intermediate phases of a lifestyle of training, the old "Bulking and Cutting" is the best method...

However I feel that many people "Over-Bulk." Personally I feel there is no need to jam so much food into yourself that you become Jabba the Hutt holding onto a DB... Eat every 2-3 hours yes... But you really only need to be around 200 cals over maintence, to gain an effective amount of muscle, while not slobbing on a ton of fat.
(Again all of this might be different for you and your body, but there's no way to tell without having a well detailed training journal to help you determine where you've gone astray.)
On a proper clean bulk, you should be able to make sufficient muscle gain, while still only going up like 1% body fat every 2 months or so.

Remember... There are reasons why saying like "Less is More" and "Train Smarter not harder" exist... Ignore them and surrendur your patience, and you will quickly find yourself infected with frustration.

Good Luck Bro!