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  1. #1501
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    Originally Posted by EatMoreWheyMore View Post
    P.S. I would imagine the answer to this question is- Any one is fine: JUST PICK ONE AND STICK TO IT.

    If that is the case then my question is more geared to what are the differences/advantages of a workout with 7 lifts in one day(Yours) vs. a workout with 3 lifts in one day (Ripptoe's) Does one help more with muscle size or athleticism? I find it hard to believe two workouts with such different volume demands would yield the same result.

    Thanks again
    IF you're an athlete you can't beat Bill Starr. His programs have been building NFL champions since 1976 AND they're still in use today. That's longevity and battle tested results. Those boys don't fool around! Running a few cycles of my program and then running a few cycles of Starr's program will work pretty well. I don't like body part splits. About as far as I would go with that is an upper-lower split if you're an athlete. For body building body part splits seem to work well for advanced lifters and not so well for intermediates. That seems to be the reality. I prefer full body programs most of the time. I put 7 exercises in this program knowing full well that if I didn't everyone would screw with it and add things to it. I knew that would happen because I've been a regular poster in the 5x5 threads and watched in horror as some asshat that thought they knew better than Bill Starr proceeded to destroy the program. Notice that in this program I only used 2 work sets. The reason for that is the number of exercises.
    All of this comes down to where are you now? What kind of shape are you in? What are your training goals?
    I have some very large college kids currently using Starr's 636 program. That's an NFL program and in so far as I'm concerned for a an advance strength, speed, power athlete it is the single best program on earth.
    So again, it all comes down to where you are and where you want to go. There is no one life time program. The program that got you to a 250 pound bench press wont be the same program that gets you to 300 pounds. So what happened. Is the program suddenly crap? What changed? YOU DID! You've out grown it. This stuff is dynamic and personal. There is no black magic. This stuff has been researched and tested add nauseum. I just try to keep things as simple as possible. Big, basic and brutal. Add enough time for recovery and super compensation and you're good to go.


    I hope that somewhere in that rant I answered your question...LOL!
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
    5/17/86 - 9/14/06
    Bridgeport Ct.

  2. #1502
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    Originally Posted by JustWorkOut View Post
    Right now I am doing this program with just dumbbells as well.
    I use powerblocks which are easy to change and here are the exercises you can do:
    You can google these by typing in "dumbbell squarts" or "dumbbell bent over row" etc.

    Squats - hold dumbbells on shoulders
    BOR - dumbbells = better range of motion
    Overhead Press - can be done from a seated position - start with dumbells at sides and pick up to shoulders - now press - they can meet in the middle given better range of motion and each shoulder/ arm better individual workout
    sldl = may get a very slight better range of motion of dumbbells with these, other than that no diff
    Dumbbell curls - works each arm individually and better range of motion - highly recommended
    calf raises - may be difficult to hold a heavy weight, you can hold the dumbells up on shoulders

    As you can see you are NOT at a disadvantage until you go very heavy.
    Now for the chest there are options, but you won't get the same results, but here they are:
    Lots of pushups
    Lying Dumbbell Press - Lye on the floor , THEN pick up carefully (you may want to google this) dumbbells and press. Range of motion is deceased due to the floor.

    Also for the overhead press, I prefer doing chinups/pullups just because, I like them.
    I don't currently have access to a gym but I do have a set of powerblocks, they each go up to 40 or 50 lbs i think. I'm goin to start doing this program with those, it's better than not doing anything at all. Atleast that's how I look at it.

  3. #1503
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    Since I decided to take out SLDL's until I strengthen my abs, should I add something for forearms to make up for the fact they won't get worked from sldl's (the only thing I really felt forearms on)?

  4. #1504
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    IF you're an athlete you can't beat Bill Starr. His programs have been building NFL champions since 1976 AND they're still in use today. That's longevity and battle tested results. Those boys don't fool around! Running a few cycles of my program and then running a few cycles of Starr's program will work pretty well. I don't like body part splits. About as far as I would go with that is an upper-lower split if you're an athlete. For body building body part splits seem to work well for advanced lifters and not so well for intermediates. That seems to be the reality. I prefer full body programs most of the time. I put 7 exercises in this program knowing full well that if I didn't everyone would screw with it and add things to it. I knew that would happen because I've been a regular poster in the 5x5 threads and watched in horror as some asshat that thought they knew better than Bill Starr proceeded to destroy the program. Notice that in this program I only used 2 work sets. The reason for that is the number of exercises.
    All of this comes down to where are you now? What kind of shape are you in? What are your training goals?
    I have some very large college kids currently using Starr's 636 program. That's an NFL program and in so far as I'm concerned for a an advance strength, speed, power athlete it is the single best program on earth.
    So again, it all comes down to where you are and where you want to go. There is no one life time program. The program that got you to a 250 pound bench press wont be the same program that gets you to 300 pounds. So what happened. Is the program suddenly crap? What changed? YOU DID! You've out grown it. This stuff is dynamic and personal. There is no black magic. This stuff has been researched and tested add nauseum. I just try to keep things as simple as possible. Big, basic and brutal. Add enough time for recovery and super compensation and you're good to go.


    I hope that somewhere in that rant I answered your question...LOL!
    Oh and, that was a good read^

  5. #1505
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    Originally Posted by AnhYeuMy View Post
    Since I decided to take out SLDL's until I strengthen my abs, should I add something for forearms to make up for the fact they won't get worked from sldl's (the only thing I really felt forearms on)?
    O.K. an advanced trick out of my bag of tricks. At the top of each rep of curls do a wrist curl. If you think about it you'll soon realize that you've just done a curl, a wrist curl and a reverse wrist curl with each rep.
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
    5/17/86 - 9/14/06
    Bridgeport Ct.

  6. #1506
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    O.K. an advanced trick out of my bag of tricks. At the top of each rep of curls do a wrist curl. If you think about it you'll soon realize that you've just done a curl, a wrist curl and a reverse wrist curl with each rep.
    Thank you, will do. Haha can't believe I never thought of that myself >.<

  7. #1507
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    Sounds Very simple and I'm sure It should product good results.

  8. #1508
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    O.K. an advanced trick out of my bag of tricks. At the top of each rep of curls do a wrist curl. If you think about it you'll soon realize that you've just done a curl, a wrist curl and a reverse wrist curl with each rep.
    It's make more sense to do it at the bottom of the rep, assuming you are shooting for targeting the forearms in the way a regular wrist curl would. At the top of the rep, the wrist is inverted: the "curling" portion is the negative rep of a wrist extension, while the "reverse curl" is the concentric portion of a wrist extension. It'll still target the forearms obviously, but differently (not to mention everyone can do more with wrist curls than extensions) and, imo, might be hard on your wrists.
    I want to touch the butt.

  9. #1509
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    Originally Posted by Blindead View Post
    It's make more sense to do it at the bottom of the rep, assuming you are shooting for targeting the forearms in the way a regular wrist curl would. At the top of the rep, the wrist is inverted: the "curling" portion is the negative rep of a wrist extension, while the "reverse curl" is the concentric portion of a wrist extension. It'll still target the forearms obviously, but differently (not to mention everyone can do more with wrist curls than extensions) and, imo, might be hard on your wrists.
    It will be harder. That's why I suggested it. But also the forearms are in a static contraction in the wrist curl direction with each rep of an arm curl. Failing to complete a set of arm curls because of wrist failure is silly.
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
    5/17/86 - 9/14/06
    Bridgeport Ct.

  10. #1510
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    stupid question, but what exercise works my triceps? those seem to be my most tired body part at the end of the night besides my quads. just curious

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    It will be harder. That's why I suggested it. But also the forearms are in a static contraction in the wrist curl direction with each rep of an arm curl. Failing to complete a set of arm curls because of wrist failure is silly.
    Indeed. I need to do some isolation work on my right forearm, while it doesn't prevent me from completing the set, I tend to bend my wrist back a bit once I hit the 45lb DB's.
    I want to touch the butt.

  12. #1512
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    Originally Posted by whammer33024 View Post
    stupid question, but what exercise works my triceps? those seem to be my most tired body part at the end of the night besides my quads. just curious
    Bench press and over head press.
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
    5/17/86 - 9/14/06
    Bridgeport Ct.

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    that's what i figured but i wasn't sure. thanks all pro!

    starting 3rd week tonight so its the heavy night...pretty nervous about it but i'm excited!

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    I am on my second week of this program and am liking it so far. I just have a quick question.

    The gym I workout at only has one overhead barbell press (military press) and often times it is being used when I am ready to use it. If that is the case (that it is being used) would it be okay if I went and did the stiff leg deadlifts first? Or would I be better off waiting until the military press is open? If I do end up having to wait 5 minutes or so, would that be harmful to any potential gains?

    Thanks all pro!

  15. #1515
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    Originally Posted by Scooter4 View Post
    I am on my second week of this program and am liking it so far. I just have a quick question.

    The gym I workout at only has one overhead barbell press (military press) and often times it is being used when I am ready to use it. If that is the case (that it is being used) would it be okay if I went and did the stiff leg deadlifts first? Or would I be better off waiting until the military press is open? If I do end up having to wait 5 minutes or so, would that be harmful to any potential gains?

    Thanks all pro!
    If you have to do SLDLs before over head press it wont mess anything up. You aren't using the same muscles.
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
    _____________________________________________

    R.I.P.
    Lynn Larsen
    5/17/86 - 9/14/06
    Bridgeport Ct.

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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    If you have to do SLDLs before over head press it wont mess anything up. You aren't using the same muscles.
    That's what I figured but I wasn't sure if the extra break between the bench press and overhead barbell press would be a big deal or not. Thanks!

  17. #1517
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    quick ?

    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    A Simple beginner's Routine
    You will do 3 work outs per week on non consecutive days. The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight.

    Do a lite warm up with 1/4 of your work sets weight. Do a medium warm up with 1/2 of your work sets weight. Do 2 work sets with the same weight. Choose a starting weight and start light.

    These are the seven exercises you will be starting with.

    Squats
    Bench Presses
    Bent-Over Rows
    Overhead Barbell Presses
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
    Barbell Curls
    Calf Raises

    You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
    The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
    The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
    The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
    The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
    The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
    If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10% and

    repeat the cycle. If you didn't get all of the reps on the fifth week then repeat the cycle with the same weight. You shouldn't need more than one minute rest between the warm up sets and you shouldn't need more than one minute thirty seconds between the work sets.
    Do some cardio and abs work on non weight training days.
    All Pro,

    This is awesome, great post. I have one question however... In this workout did you want the workout done in this order?...

    Squats 1x8
    Bench Presses 1x8
    Bent-Over Rows 1x8
    Overhead Barbell Presses 1x8
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 1x8
    Barbell Curls 1x8
    Calf Raises 1x8

    And repeat, until all 4 sets are completed.

    or...

    Squats 4x8
    Bench Presses 4x8
    Bent-Over Rows 4x8
    Overhead Barbell Presses 4x8
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 4x8
    Barbell Curls 4x8
    Calf Raises 4x8

    So you would complete all 4 sets of squats and then hit the bench... and so on.
    Im sure this has already been discussed, but i have not found it. lol

    Thanks a bunch for all your help...
    Last edited by entelechy; 12-02-2009 at 12:21 AM.

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    Originally Posted by entelechy View Post
    All Pro,

    This is awesome, great post. I have one question however... In this workout did you want the workout done in this order?...

    Squats 1x8
    Bench Presses 1x8
    Bent-Over Rows 1x8
    Overhead Barbell Presses 1x8
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 1x8
    Barbell Curls 1x8
    Calf Raises 1x8

    And repeat, until all 4 sets are completed.

    or...

    Squats 4x8
    Bench Presses 4x8
    Bent-Over Rows 4x8
    Overhead Barbell Presses 4x8
    Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 4x8
    Barbell Curls 4x8
    Calf Raises 4x8

    So you would complete all 4 sets of squats and then hit the bench... and so on.
    Im sure this has already been discussed, but i have not found it. lol

    The first way I described makes more sense, so you are not constantly moving from a working set to two warm up sets.

    Thanks a bunch for all your help...
    He intends on it to be the second way, you finish all of your sets for squats then go on to your bench press (once you finish squats, you won't do them again the entire workout)
    And 2 of those four sets are including your warmup sets, then the remaining 2 are your full sets.

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    Originally Posted by AnhYeuMy View Post
    He intends on it to be the second way, you finish all of your sets for squats then go on to your bench press (once you finish squats, you won't do them again the entire workout)
    And 2 of those four sets are including your warmup sets, then the remaining 2 are your full sets.

    Alright. Makes sense.
    Thanks for the help AnhYeuMy, I appreciate it.

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    sweet
    I own the BowFlex dumbbells (freeweights, not machines!) you dumb fux.

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    ugh...tried doing 2x10 on overhead last night and failed on the last rep. pretty disappointed but oh well. still happy with the progress i've made already!

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    assuming one could complete the workout in about an hour, would it be a bad idea to do abs right after?

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    Originally Posted by whammer33024 View Post
    ugh...tried doing 2x10 on overhead last night and failed on the last rep. pretty disappointed but oh well. still happy with the progress i've made already!
    Considering that it was your 1x10 rep max 3 weeks ago you did great!
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    Originally Posted by Sinisterc6 View Post
    assuming one could complete the workout in about an hour, would it be a bad idea to do abs right after?
    If you have the energy, go for it and get it done.
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
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    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
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    I've been finding sources that show Stiff legged deaflifts work your lower back (arched back) mostly
    And then i've found that its mainly suppose to work your glutes (straight back) ?

    which one should I be working?



    Also, I take it i can choose whatever style of squats I want, Cause I find it hard to keep balance in back squats.
    Last edited by Frankfrank93; 12-02-2009 at 02:11 PM.

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    All Pro I had a couple questions for you.

    I have read through these pages and been reading your responses since you cover so much information. I read somewhere that you said a warmup is only really necessary for the first 4 exercises and since im very busy i dropped the warmup for the other exercises. My question is should i do an extra set (like 3 sets of 8) or just up the weights? I ask because i dont feel as worked on the ones that i dropped the warm up from.

    Also my abs are the only part of my body i have seen absolutely no gains in. My stomach is kinda chubby so i would like to get some tight abs. is it ok to add in an ab workout on the 3 days and if so what is a good ab workout you suggest and what is the rep/weight progression i should look at for abs?

    thanks for you valuable time you are the best AllPro!!!

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    Originally Posted by Frankfrank93 View Post
    I've been finding sources that show Stiff legged deaflifts work your lower back (arched back) mostly
    And then i've found that its mainly suppose to work your glutes (straight back) ?

    which one should I be working?



    Also, I take it i can choose whatever style of squats I want, Cause I find it hard to keep balance in back squats.
    Straight back mostly. You wont be able to stay that way. Back squats only. As you gain flexibility you'll stop having balancing issues unless you started to heavy.
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    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Straight back mostly. You wont be able to stay that way. Back squats only. As you gain flexibility you'll stop having balancing issues unless you started to heavy.
    Alright, I can keep balance, I was just trying to hard to keep my knees behind my toes.


    The bar kinda hurts my shoulders from resting on them, Do i just have to suck it up or is there an easier way?
    Its not preventing me from finishing, but of course i want to be as comfortable as possible.

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    I just started this routine after a lot of research. Did my second workout last night.

    I'm a pretty decent size guy, and this is the first attempt at real weight lifting Ive ever done.

    I'm hoping I get these "newbie gains" sooner rather than later. I cant believe how weak I am!

    Of course, I sit at a desk all day and was obese all my life and have been cutting for 125lbs....heres where most of my starting weights are in order to finish the sets and reps:

    155 Squat
    115 Bench
    95 Overhead Press
    135 SLDL

    ..Im having a hard time even acheiving a bent-over row because my upper legs are so weak after doing squats its tough to get into the form.

    I think this is a great beginner routine though. Im sure my muscles will adjust within the next couple weeks.
    "Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths." - Arnold Schwarzeneggar

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    allpro i realise you have to do 28 sets in this program, which is a long while in the gym. what is the point of doing 2 warmup sets if you have prepared with some good stretching? Could you just do 1 warmup and then 2 work sets?

    I understand it is recomended to do both warmup sets in the beginning weeks to get used to the form and adapt. would it be detrimental to size gains if after that you just warmed up with 1 set?

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