I just copied and pasted this article from BB.com, Big Cat or whoever. I don't like the sound of this.
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It has come to my attention that some people have been adding taurine to their diets to decrease cramping from clenbuterol or other beta-adrenergic agonists. Whether or not there is any merit to this, I really don't know. I haven't seen any data one way or the other. I assume there must be some truth to the rumour or people wouldn't be doing it. Then again...
Regardless however, supplementing extra taurine during a diet is not advisable. It is indeed true that beta-adrenergic agonists like clenbuterol and ephedrine will reduce taurine levels, no question about it. But did anyone ever stop to think that maybe this has a reason? Your protein intake should stay the same, roughly, which means that these compounds are actively reducing taurine levels.
If anyone had bothered to look these things up for a few seconds they would have known it is with good reason. Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone, noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea.
This lowers the threshold at which glycogen is stored again. This will increase chance of gaining fat during cheat days due to enhanced sensitivity of fat cells to insulin, and limit fat lost on dieting days since the extra stored glycogen will have to be burned again before you start burning fat again.
This is however the least of your concerns. Taurine is also known to reduce Thyroid levels. Studies have demonstrated that a high platelet level of taurine will reduce T3:T4 ratio in men. This would slow down your metabolic rate, meaning you use less calories than you would otherwise. Obviously this will result in less fat lost for the same amount of calories eaten.
Taurine may also reduce cAMP production in certain animals. The extrapolation in this case is a far fetch, but something I would like to see tested in humans. Since the cAMP acts as a second messenger in the process of lipolysis, the process of releasing fatty acids from their glycerol backbone, making them available for burning, this will reduce the amount of fat released and consequently the amount of fat burned.
This all fits nicely into the picture that free form amino acids should not be frequently used on a diet. As with carbohydrates, quickly absorbed sources create higher peak levels that also decline faster. This almost always leads to a favourable situation for a lower metabolism.
When dieting you will opt for carbohydrate sources that absorb slower, so they have less of an effect on factors influencing food intake. The same holds true for protein. You should opt for protein sources with a more anti-catabolic character, that release slower, such as casein.
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Thread: Don't take Taurine when dieting?
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02-19-2005, 11:19 AM #1
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Don't take Taurine when dieting?
I've still got a lot to learn.
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02-19-2005, 11:25 AM #2
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02-19-2005, 11:55 AM #3Taurine may inhibit fat loss in different ways. First of all it will increase insulin sensitivity. I didn't even need to state that, it has been used in supplements with varying success for that exact same reason. If we know that many effective fat loss aids work primarily by lowering insulin resistance (Growth hormone, noradrenaline, etc), we already know this is not a bright idea.
This lowers the threshold at which glycogen is stored again. This will increase chance of gaining fat during cheat days due to enhanced sensitivity of fat cells to insulin, and limit fat lost on dieting days since the extra stored glycogen will have to be burned again before you start burning fat again.
Taurine may also reduce cAMP production in certain animals. The extrapolation in this case is a far fetch, but something I would like to see tested in humans. Since the cAMP acts as a second messenger in the process of lipolysis, the process of releasing fatty acids from their glycerol backbone, making them available for burning, this will reduce the amount of fat released and consequently the amount of fat burned.
This all fits nicely into the picture that free form amino acids should not be frequently used on a diet.It seems these poets have nothing up their ample sleeves...
[url]www.AvantLabs.com[/url]
[email]chris@avantlabs.com[/email]
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02-19-2005, 12:57 PM #4
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02-19-2005, 03:08 PM #5
Yes, you can take taurine when dieting. Ideally I would take it around workouts, definitely with creatine, as well as with any other osmolytes (IP6, tri-methyl-glycine).
Cell-swelling and cellular energy state is a large component to our Leptigen supplement line, the rationale being something like this
"My attempt to simplify things as much as possible which will undoubtedly fail miserably and get really verbose and confusing":
You diet, you decrease calories. Since there's not a lot of food, blood glucose and peripheral caloric byproducts amino acids, glucose, etc.) decrease. Insulin also decreases because your pancreatic beta cells get the sense that, since there's less food, less insulin is needed to store it. As a result, your cells, both fat and muscle, start to shrink. Cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) gets catalyzed inside cells, some kinase/enzymatic activity occurs, and TAGs (triglycerides) get hydrolized ("broken down") into glycerol and fatty acids. Your muscles oxidize these fatty acids (either in the peroxisomes or the mitochondria but this is kind of digressing...), and your "burning fat". This is good. More of this, means your fat cells shrink in size, since lipolysis is mobilizing all these formerly stored fat. In your muscle, the same thing is happening. Since your body has an energy deficit, cellular ATP stores are decreasing, less insulin means less nutrient entering, and your muscle cells shrink (especially if you are on something like an EC stack, because caffeine is an adenosine antagonist and a cellular diuretic).
Okay, now you have to bear in mind this is only like "half the picture", since there's a lot of stuff going on in the brain that's interrelated to this, but I'll try to just cover this as sort of a seperate unit in and of itself (although it should not be thought of in this way).
Anyways, cells (fat and muscle) shrink. The problem is, initially this is all fine and good on a diet. Long-term however, since leptin (which is a REALLY important hormone for dieters) signaling is mediated by a.) glucose signaling (short term) and b.) fat cell size and number (long-term), shrinking cells and a lack of ATP means leptin is going to start to drop.
The problem is that, in the brain, leptin controls EVERYTHING. Too much cell-shrinking on a diet, leptin signaling drops, and levels of neuropeptide-Y (NPY) go up while output of other centrally controlled hormones: TRH (which downstream modulates thyroid output), GnRH (modulates sex-steroid synthesis, particularly testosterone), and LH (ditto) decreases. Your hypothalamary-pituary-thyroid-adrenal axis picks up on this because it's very well-connected to leptin. And since the HPTA & 'associates' control/modulate cellular metabolism in response to stress. Stess/exercise prompt various phsyiological responses: primarily NE & glutamate centrally, along with CRH, which downstream prompts ACTH, which--in piss-poor dieting conditions with low leptin--equates to increased glucocorticoid activity (from the adrenals).
So, in the end: too much cell shrinking and lack of fed stimulus = leptin comes crashing down = your further abilities to mobilize and lose fat and maintain muscle come crashing down too because cortisol has skyrocketed, appetite is through the roof, fat-mobilization has come to a stand-still, and your thyroid is in the gutter along with your libido and your test levels. This is the perennial "dieting plateau".
And taurine, as an osmolyte, promotes a little cell-swelling (particularly in muscle when used with things like creatine and other osmolytes as I indicated above), which--when dieting--is never entirely a bad thing.
Sorry, I realize I just read through Webster's Dictionary to give you the definition of "cat," but I wanted to make it pretty clear why cellular energy status ultimately matters so much when cutting. It's cause you don't want to hit that weight loss plateau where your body is like "**** that; just go try and get leaner without me, cause I'm spent...".
Cheers.Last edited by Lok7y; 02-19-2005 at 03:47 PM.
It seems these poets have nothing up their ample sleeves...
[url]www.AvantLabs.com[/url]
[email]chris@avantlabs.com[/email]
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02-19-2005, 03:22 PM #6
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02-19-2005, 03:26 PM #7
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Alright. Thanks so much for helping me out!! I just ended an 8-10 week cycle of CEE. So now I'm taking 4 weeks off from CEE so my body doesn't become dependant on it (if that's even necessary), so should I wait until I go back on CEE to start Taurine? I'm also starting high volume/high reps not (was doing Max-OT for the past 2 months) so wouldn't Taurine help me with energy and pumps?
Also one more thing since I got your attention .. but recently I was blood tested for allergic reactions and I'm highly allergic to Sesame Oil .. thus I believe I can't have your Sesathin right?I've still got a lot to learn.
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02-19-2005, 03:32 PM #8Originally Posted by broken_heart
So essentially the background is still being built up at the moment. Nothing terribly impressive, a little academic 'bling-bling' thus far--little more. I have just always been fascinated with exercise science and physiology, and I seem to have a decent mind for it. Hanging out with Par a lot helps; the man just knows his ****.It seems these poets have nothing up their ample sleeves...
[url]www.AvantLabs.com[/url]
[email]chris@avantlabs.com[/email]
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02-19-2005, 03:35 PM #9Alright. Thanks so much for helping me out!! I just ended an 8-10 week cycle of CEE. So now I'm taking 4 weeks off from CEE so my body doesn't become dependant on it (if that's even necessary), so should I wait until I go back on CEE to start Taurine? I'm also starting high volume/high reps not (was doing Max-OT for the past 2 months) so wouldn't Taurine help me with energy and pumps?
Also one more thing since I got your attention .. but recently I was blood tested for allergic reactions and I'm highly allergic to Sesame Oil .. thus I believe I can't have your Sesathin right?It seems these poets have nothing up their ample sleeves...
[url]www.AvantLabs.com[/url]
[email]chris@avantlabs.com[/email]
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02-19-2005, 03:37 PM #10
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02-19-2005, 04:08 PM #11Originally Posted by zachattack43
I was actually hoping to burn out in a blaze of glory a la the "I am a golden god!"-scene in Almost Famous, but, yeah, I suppose there's nothing wrong with actually striving for a few legitimate career achievements.It seems these poets have nothing up their ample sleeves...
[url]www.AvantLabs.com[/url]
[email]chris@avantlabs.com[/email]
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02-19-2005, 04:14 PM #12
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02-19-2005, 04:30 PM #13
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02-19-2005, 04:33 PM #14
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02-19-2005, 05:06 PM #15
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02-19-2005, 05:08 PM #16
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02-19-2005, 05:21 PM #17
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02-19-2005, 05:29 PM #18
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