The Warrior Diet, anyone have opinions/experience with it?

[skelooth]

Basically you don't eat all day long, then eat whatever you want at night before bed. It totally goes against everything I've learned about nutrition, but the theory behind it intrigues me like crazy.

Has anyone actually tried this??

[alan aragon]

most of my clients who used to be overweight or obese were on the warrior diet without knowing it - before they changed their horrendous habits & got into shape. i know this for a fact, via taking their diet histories as a matter of standard assessment protocol. but, this same phenomenon of bad habits goes for most of the nation's busy working class; they skip breakfast, eat very little during the day, & work up to a huge gut-bomb of a dinner. now just take a look at the average physique. the evidence is OBVIOUSLY HEAVY.

basically, the warrior diet is the biggest crock of bull**** piece of **** fad diet scheme i've come across since the blood type diet. the author is a former political satire artist for penthouse magazine. he also happens to have good genetics for leanness (whoopee), & a great penchant for marketing bull**** & misinterpreting the very basics of human physiology. pretty credible guy, huh?

[ortego]

See the thread that I started. I've had some experience with it. It has its benefits and drawbacks, but overall my experience has been positive.

[alan aragon]

Originally Posted by ortego

See the thread that I started. I've had some experience with it. It has its benefits and drawbacks, but overall my experience has been positive.

not to sound insensitive, but calorie restriction by any other name (or fad diet) is still calorie restriction.

[skelooth]

Originally Posted by alan aragon

basically, the warrior diet is the biggest crock of bull**** piece of **** fad diet scheme i've come across since the blood type diet. the author is a former political satire artist for penthouse magazine. he also happens to have good genetics for leanness (whoopee), & a great penchant for marketing bull**** & misinterpreting the very basics of human physiology. pretty credible guy, huh?

He also seems to be convinced that eating 6 times a day is a myth made by the food industry to get us to eat more food.

Thanks alan, you confirmed my gut feeling for me

[alan aragon]

Originally Posted by skelooth

He also seems to be convinced that eating 6 times a day is a myth made by the food industry to get us to eat more food.

Thanks alan, you confirmed my gut feeling for me

no problem, i have a passionate hate for quackery.

[ortego]

A few years ago, I would have said exactly what you are saying. I first read of the Warrior Diet approach in 99 on t-mag and immediately dismissed it. I've recently had some life changing experiences that have forced me to become more open minded and try new ways of doing things. Now that I've tried this approach, I've changed my mind a bit. The results are good and the "6 or more meals a day" dogma doesn't seem to be as concrete.

Just remember, some of the ideas that are well-accepted today were initially dismissed as heresy or quackery.

Some registered dieticians still recommend 0.8g/kg of protein for bodybuilders and other athletes.

[alan aragon]

Originally Posted by ortego

A few years ago, I would have said exactly what you are saying. I first read of the Warrior Diet approach in 99 on t-mag and immediately dismissed it. I've recently had some life changing experiences that have forced me to become more open minded and try new ways of doing things. Now that I've tried this approach, I've changed my mind a bit. The results are good and the "6 or more meals a day" dogma doesn't seem to be as concrete.

Just remember, some of the ideas that are well-accepted today were initially dismissed as heresy or quackery.

Some registered dieticians still recommend 0.8g/kg of protein for bodybuilders and other athletes.

1) 6 or more meals a day works great for bodybuilders, & will continue to do so for as far as i can see. i do personally know a handful of folks who can get away with only 3 meals a day, but they are the gifted exceptions, rather then the vast majority. most folks would tend to overeat any given meal if there was an average of 5-6 hours in between meals. not to mention, greater meal frequency = better nutrient partitioning, greater overall thermic effect, & better energy profile. this is basic stuff that has not changed in many decades of the science of optimal nutrition for bodybuilding or any other sport for that matter. remember, we're not talking about bare-bones survival, we're talking about what's optimal.

2) agreed, but increased meal frequency is not one of those practices on the verge of being debunked.

3) agreed, & i know this better than anyone you will talk to in the near future, because i teach sports nutrition courses to registered dietitians who have an interest in it. the practicing dietitians who are still unaware of protein requirements for athletes are mostly stuck in the confines of hospitals doing clinical work on renal patients, etc. not all RDs have the time or the interest to stay abreast of the needs of athletes. just as in all fields, there are the ones who keep up, & the ones who remain ignorant.

[Luski16]

AGREED! The warrior diet is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of. haha not even all of the calories you eat can even be digested so it will just be a waste and all the overabundance of the ones that are taken will be stored as fat and held onto by the body from starving all day

[ortego]

Thankyou for keeping the discussion intelligent and informative.

[ortego]

I'm not saying that frequent feeding is incorrect or improper. I'm just sharing my experience with a different approach.

I'm currently experiencing some disillusionment with the so-called experts because I'm getting good results doing the exact opposite of what they suggest. Try to look at it from my point of view if you can. I've devoted lots of time, energy, and money to learning and implementing fitness and bodybuilding techniques and methods. Suddenly I'm experimenting with a diet that is directly opposite of the "6 meals a day" approach that I've accepted as absolute truth since the day I first read "Joe Weider's Ultimate Bodybuilding". And the crazy thing is that it is WORKING! I'm having a paradigm shift. Ask the experts what should happen to me on this diet and they'll say that I should be gaining fat. Either their thinking is somewhat flawed or I'm a freak of nature.

[ortego]

"greater meal frequency = better nutrient partitioning, greater overall thermic effect, & better energy profile. this is basic stuff that has not changed in many decades of the science of optimal nutrition for bodybuilding or any other sport for that matter"

I once accepted this as a matter of fact but I've found very few studies to confirm it and many that refute it.

"Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency."

Here is the abstract from which the above quote was taken, from a quick search on Pub Med


Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70. Related Articles, Links

Meal frequency and energy balance.

Bellisle F, McDevitt R, Prentice AM.

INSERM U341, Hotel Dieu de Paris, France.

Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a 'nibbling' meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.

[night-trainer]

I wont speak for everyone, but personally if I go for a long period of time (4-5hours plus) without eating, I feel tired, lazy, moody, lack concentration, no energy etc... So even if you are emphasising the effects on weight loss you need to take into account all other aspects.

[Pump that iron!]

Originally Posted by night-trainer

I wont speak for everyone, but personally if I go for a long period of time (4-5hours plus) without eating, I feel tired, lazy, moody, lack concentration, no energy etc... So even if you are emphasising the effects on weight loss you need to take into account all other aspects.

Yeah, I don't think I would last very long on a diet like that. I guess people have had results from it but ultimately, it's calories in vs. calories out.

[ortego]

That's a very often overlooked fact. You can't fight the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics any more effectively than you can defy the law of gravity.

I was tired and irritable on WD for the first few days, but I soon felt more energy especially in the afternoon when I would typically get a slump in energy. I usually get hungry around noon, but it passes and I feel somewhat invigorated after lunch time. I should also mention that I do eat some food during the day, just not much. (protein powder and raw vegetables for the most part, but usually not more than 200 calories)

[alan aragon]

ortego, that 1997 review paper has since been refuted by other studies, including this 2005 intervention trial supporting my view:

Beneficial metabolic effects of regular meal frequency on dietary thermogenesis, insulin sensitivity, and fasting lipid profiles in healthy obese women. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Jan;81(1):16-24. Farshchi HR, Taylor MA, Macdonald IA.

BACKGROUND: Although a regular meal pattern is recommended for obese people, its effects on energy metabolism have not been examined. OBJECTIVE: We investigated whether a regular meal frequency affects energy intake (EI), energy expenditure, or circulating insulin, glucose, and lipid concentrations in healthy obese women. DESIGN: Ten women [x +/- SD body mass index (in kg/m(2)): 37.1 +/- 4.8] participated in a randomized crossover trial. In phase 1 (14 d), the subjects consumed their normal diet on 6 occasions/d (regular meal pattern) or followed a variable meal frequency (3-9 meals/d, irregular meal pattern). In phase 2 (14 d), the subjects followed the alternative pattern. At the start and end of each phase, a test meal was fed, and blood glucose, lipid, and insulin concentrations were determined before and for 3 h after (glucose and insulin only) the test meal. Subjects recorded their food intake on 3 d during each phase. The thermogenic response to the test meal was ascertained by indirect calorimetry. RESULTS: Regular eating was associated with lower EI (P < 0.01), greater postprandial thermogenesis (P < 0.01), and lower fasting total (4.16 compared with 4.30 mmol/L; P < 0.01) and LDL (2.46 compared with 2.60 mmol/L; P < 0.02) cholesterol. Fasting glucose and insulin values were not affected by meal pattern, but peak insulin concentrations and area under the curve of insulin responses to the test meal were lower after the regular than after the irregular meal pattern (P < 0.01 and 0.02, respectively). CONCLUSION: Regular eating has beneficial effects on fasting lipid and postprandial insulin profiles and thermogenesis.

now here's what we as bodybuilders & other athletes already know & have known for decades:

Hawley JA, Burke LM. Effect of meal frequency and timing on physical performance. Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S91-103.

Two areas of sports nutrition in which the periodicity of eating has been studied relate to: (1) the habitually high energy intakes of many athletes, and (2) the optimization of carbohydrate (CHO) availability to enhance performance. The present paper examines how the timing and frequency of food and fluid intake can assist the athlete and physically-active person to improve their exercise performance in these areas. Frequent eating occasions provide a practical strategy allowing athletes to increase energy intake while concomitantly reducing the gastric discomfort of infrequent large meals. The optimization of CHO stores is a special challenge for athletes undertaking prolonged training or competition sessions. This is a cyclical process with post-exercise CHO ingestion promoting muscle and liver glycogen re-synthesis; pre-exercise feedings being practised to optimize substrate availability and feedings during exercise providing a readily-available source of exogenous fuel as endogenous stores become depleted. The timing and frequency of CHO intake at these various stages are crucial determinants for optimizing fuel availability to enhance exercise capacity.

here's a recent study illuminating the immediate cardiovascular detriment of the hefty single-meal gorging (which the warrior diet recommends doing at the end of the day regardless of when you trained):

Lipovetzky N, Hod H, Roth A, Kishon Y, Sclarovsky S, Green MS. Heavy meals as a trigger for a first event of the acute coronary syndrome: a case-crossover study. Isr Med Assoc J. 2004 Dec;6(12):728-31.

BACKGROUND: Food intake has an immediate effect on the cardiovascular system. However, the effect of a large meal as an immediate trigger for the acute coronary syndrome has not been assessed. OBJECTIVES: To assess the relative risk for ACS within a few hours after the ingestion of a heavy meal. METHODS: In a case-crossover study, 209 patients were interviewed a median of 2 days after an ACS event. Ingestion of a large meal in the few hours immediately before the onset of ACS was compared with the comparable few hours the day before and with the usual frequency of large meals over the past year. Large meals were assessed according to a 5 level scale. RESULTS: The relative risk of an acute coronary event during the first hour after a heavy meal ingestion was RR = 7 (95% confidence interval 0.75-65.8) when the day before the ACS served as the control data and RR = 4 (95% CI 1.9-8.6) when the usual frequency of heavy meals ingestion during the previous year served as the control data. CONCLUSIONS: The ingestion of heavy meals can trigger the onset of an ACS event. Education of the population to avoid heavy meals, especially in people at high risk for coronary heart disease, should be included in the prevention of ACS. Research regarding specific nutrients that may act as potential triggers for ACS should be considered.

& don't forget the critically important 10+ year ongoing study that i am conducting on my clients - it's entitled "Make sure they do what works optimally or else they won't get lasting results & your practice will fall apart & your family will end up on the street".

what i have found unequivocally is that the warrior regime is what most of my formerly obese & overweight clients were inadvertently following before they improved their habits, upped their meal frequency, and got into good shape once & for all.

my advice is to be more careful of what fad diet is enchanting you at the moment. the warrior diet does not have science nor real-life practice on its side. i have no regrets or reservations in saying that it's laughable. furthermore, beware of the placebo power of suggestion. it also appears in the guise of diets; if you have enough faith or hope that something will work, chances are you will at least subconsciously make sure it does - but that does not mean it's the optimal route.

[Stagger]

I've seen it work before for weight loss, but it defenitely doesn't lend itself well to bodybuilding. Just stick with a normal good diet.

[ortego]

I've been a frequent feeder for most of my life. I've just recently experimented with the warrior diet approach and it seems to be working pretty well for getting lean while minimizing muscle loss. So I'm questioning the '6 or more meals a day' dogma a little. I'm still convinced that eating frequently is beneficial, I'm just really questioning how important it is.

It also seems that for every scientific study that I find supporting frequent feeding for increasing the thermic effect of food, I find a few others that find that feeding frequency makes no difference or that a larger meal causes more total thermic effect than several smaller ones with the same caloric total.

For example,

Eur J Clin Nutr. 1990 May;44(5):389-95. Related Articles, Links

Effect of meal frequency on the thermic effect of food in women.

Kinabo JL, Durnin JV.

Institute of Physiology, University of Glasgow, Scotland.

The effect of meal frequency on the thermic effect of food (TEF), also referred to as dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT), was investigated in eighteen non-obese female subjects. Their metabolic rate before and after consuming the test meal was measured by open circuit indirect calorimetry using the Douglas bag technique, while the subjects were in the resting state (lying down). Eight subjects consumed a high carbohydrate-low fat (HCLF) meal providing 70, 19 and 11 per cent of the energy content from carbohydrate, fat and protein, respectively, and ten other subjects consumed a low carbohydrate-high fat (LCHF) meal providing 24, 65 and 11 per cent of the energy from carbohydrate, fat and protein, respectively. On two separate occasions, each subject consumed the appropriate diet either as one large meal containing 5040 kJ (1200 kcal) or as two smaller meals each containing 2520 kJ (600 kcal). TEF values were calculated for 6 h after the test meal and the mean values after consuming the HCLF meal were 377.0 +/- 30.0 kJ (90 +/- 7.2 kcal) and 381.0 +/- 26.5 kJ (91.0 +/- 6.3 kcal) for the one meal and the two meals, respectively. The mean TEF values for the subjects who consumed the LCHF meal wre 356.0 +/- 23.0 kJ (85.0 +/- 5.5 kcal) and 340 +/- 15.9 kJ (81.0 +/- 3.8 kcal) for the one meal and the two meals, respectively. No significant differences were found between the two feeding regimens (HCLF, P = 0.94; LCHF, P = 0.64) as well as between the compositions (P = 0.57). Thus, meal frequency and meal composition did not seem to influence the TEF.

Am J Clin Nutr. 1991 Nov;54(5):783-7. Related Articles, Links

Comment in:
· Am J Clin Nutr. 1992 Dec;56(6):1069.

Meal size and frequency: effect on the thermic effect of food.

Tai MM, Castillo P, Pi-Sunyer FX.

Obesity Research Center, St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center, Columbia University, New York, NY.

The effects of meal size and frequency on thermic effect of food (TEF) were examined in seven healthy normal-weight young women. Each volunteer consumed in random order one of two identical meals [3138 kJ (750 kcal), 54.5% carbohydrate, 14.0% protein, 31.5% fat]. One meal was taken over 10 min [large meal (LM)] whereas the other was taken in six equal portions of 523 kJ (125 kcal) at 30-min intervals over a 3-h period [small meals (SM)]. Metabolic rate was measured for 1 h before and every 30 min after the meal started for 5 h. When expressed as either kJ/min (kcal/min) or kJ/5h (kcal/5h), TEF was significantly higher in the LM day than in the SM day (P less than 0.05). We conclude that the temporal pattern in which a mixed caloric load is eaten affects the thermogenic response and may be an important determinant of energy balance after a meal.

Publication Types:
· Clinical Trial
· Randomized Controlled Trial
Padiatr Padol. 1992;27(6):177-81. Related Articles, Links

The effect of meal frequency on postprandial thermogenesis in obese children.

Molnar D.

Department of Paediatrics, University Medical School of Pecs, Hungary.

The effect of meal frequency on the thermic effect of food (TEF) was studied in six obese boys and five obese girls (age: mean +/- SE, 12.7 +/- 0.6 yr). Post-absorptive and postprandial resting energy expenditure (REE) were monitored continuously by indirect calorimetry. The children consumed one large liquid meal (LM) or three consecutive small meals (SM) at 1.5 h intervals on subsequent days. The first mode of nutrient intake was determined random. The energy content of the LM and one SM was tailored to provide 30% and 10% of the 24 h postabsorptive REE, respectively. The postprandial changes in REE were monitored for 6 h. The postabsorptive REE (mean +/- SE) was 4.86 +/- 0.28 and 4.9 +/- 0.27 kJ/min before the LM and SM, respectively. REE, respiratory quotient, plasma glucose and insulin concentrations increased sooner, steeper and higher with the LM than with the SM. The magnitude of the TEF was greater (p < 0.02) after the LM (11.9 +/- 1.3%) than after the SM (8.5 +/- 0.7%). It is concluded that the frequency of food consumption influences the immediate thermogenic response as well as the changes in respiratory quotient, glycaemia and insulinaemia. However, the complex effect of different meal frequencies on the overall energy balance of obese patients cannot be answered on the basis of the present results.

PMID: 1484710 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2001 Apr;25(4):519-28. Related Articles, Links

Compared with nibbling, neither gorging nor a morning fast affect short-term energy balance in obese patients in a chamber calorimeter.

Taylor MA, Garrow JS.

Department of Nutrition and Dietetics, King's College London, London, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To test if a diet of 4.2 MJ/24 h as six isocaloric meals would result in a lower subsequent energy intake, or greater energy output than (a) 4.2 MJ/24 h as two isocaloric meals or (b) a morning fast followed by free access to food. DESIGN: Subjects were confined to the Metabolic Unit from 19:00 h on day 1 to 09:30 h on day 6. Each day they had a fixed diet providing 4.2 MJ with three pairs of meal patterns which were offered in random sequence. They were: six meals vs two meals without access to additional foods (6vs2), or six meals vs 2 meals with access to additional food (6+vs2+), or six meals vs four meals (6+vsAMFAST). In the AMFAST condition the first two meals of the day were omitted to reduce daily intake to 2.8 MJ and to create a morning fast, but additional food was accessible thereafter. Patients were confined in the chamber calorimeter from 19:00 h on day 2 until 09:00 h on day 4, and then from 19:00 h on day 4 to 09:00 h on day 6. The order in which each meal pattern was offered was balanced over time. MEASUREMENTS: Energy expenditure (chamber calorimetry), spontaneous activity (video) and energy intake (where additional foods were available) during the final 24 h of each dietary component. SUBJECTS: Ten (6vs2), eight (6+vs2+) and eight (6+vsAMFAST) women were recruited who had a BMI of greater than 25 kg/m2. RESULTS: From experiment 6vs2 the difference between energy expenditure with six meals (10.00 MJ) and two meals (9.96 MJ) was not significant (P=0.88). Energy expenditure between 23:00 h and 08:00 h ('night') was, however, significantly higher (P=0.02) with two meals (9.12 MJ/24 h) compared with six meals (8.34 MJ/24 h). The pattern of spontaneous physical activity did not differ significantly between these two meal patterns (P>0.05). Total energy intake was affected by neither meal frequency in experiment 6+vs2+ (10.75 MJ with six, 11.08 MJ with two; P=0.58) nor a morning fast in experiment 6+vsAMFAST (8.55 MJ/24 h with six, 7.60 MJ with AMFAST; P=0.40). The total diet of subjects who had a morning fast tended to have a lower percentage of total energy from carbohydrate (40%) than when they had six meals per 24 h (49%) (P=0.05). Subsequent energy balance was affected by neither meal frequency (6vs2; P=0.88, 6+vs2+; P=0.50) nor a morning fast (P=0.18). CONCLUSIONS: In the short term, meal frequency and a period of fasting have no major impact on energy intake or expenditure but energy expenditure is delayed with a lower meal frequency compared with a higher meal frequency. This might be attributed to the thermogenic effect of food continuing into the night when a later, larger meal is given. A morning fast resulted in a diet which tended to have a lower percentage of energy from carbohydrate than with no fast.

Publication Types:
· Clinical Trial
· Randomized Controlled Trial


J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 1992 Jun;32(2):156-63. Related Articles, Links

Body composition and energy metabolism in resting and exercising muslims during Ramadan fast.

Sweileh N, Schnitzler A, Hunter GR, Davis B.

Department of Health Education and Physical Education, University of Alabama, Birmingham.

Muslims abstain from food and drink from dawn to sunset during Ramadam, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar. The purpose of this study was to examine the changes that occurred in body composition and both resting and exercise metabolism during a 4 week Ramadan fast. Subjects consumed an average of 1220 kcal each day during Ramadan and lost a significant 1.92 kg body weight. The subjects also lost 2.8% fat. Fat-free mass did not change. Serum sodium, chloride, and protein increased during the first week of Ramadan and returned to the pre-fasting levels during the last week. This indicates a state of dehydratation existed during the first week of Ramadan. Consistent with this is first week 1.13 kg body weight loss with no change in percent fat. First week Ramadan tests showed a significant decrease in VO2max with a return to the pre-test levels in the last week. The lower resting afternoon VO2 suggests that during Ramadan the body's metabolism slows down during the day in order to conserve its energy stores, however, exercise economy as measured by submaximal VO2 in mk/kg/min is not affected.

[ortego]

I'm not recommending the WD to my clients. I think it would be irresponsible without more evidence, but for myself, I feel like it's working well

[Wydarr]

This is a very interesting topic. I am a very ardent reader of bodybuilding.com (forum & site) and I must tell you from the start that I would like this to be a point of start for a new discussion (or more correctly the revival of an old one). In many respects I am a beginner and I am looking forward to hear the opinions of people with far more experience that I have. On the other side, I would like you all to come forward with EVIDENCE. I think that it is very difficult to have a fruitful discussion when people come and say "I know it's like this because my mom, or Joe Weider or whoever told me so".

I am in kinda the same situation as ortego is. I was until a couple of days ago an ardent supporter of the "6 meals a day" thingie. I cannot deny that it has helped me get from an astounding 234lb of lard (at 5'7") to an absolute minimum of 137lb. But how much has it helped because of HOW I have eaten, and how much because of WHAT I have eaten... honest to God, I cannot tell.
I have read very carefully the previous posts and I would like to write down several impressions (also from the point of view of my background as biochemist).

1) First and foremost I think that the Warrior Diet is NOT a bodybuilders diet. And furthermore not a bodybuilder-on-steroids-diet (bb-o-s). I am SO mad because I see so many people who prescribe bb-o-s diets and training programs to people who are not users. Everything is different when you are on the pills. PLease correct me if I am wrong. A natural athlete would go into overtraining in a short time (unless he is a genetic freak) if he would use a bb-o-s training.I think that the WD is a diet that (with some modifications I will later discuss) is worth a try for a person like me, who isn't a steroid user and practices special forces training

2) Regarding the tests both alan aragon and ortego posted: The actual date of the aforementioned tests is pretty irrelevant because it's not like the 2005 test has used a newly invented method / testing apparatus. (In)direct calorimetry is the same for some time. It's not like the 2005 test used PFGE and PCR and the 1990 did't. Furthermore, in my opinion, the main problem
with these tests is the EXTREMELY LOW number of volunteeres. The total number of volunteers in all the tests that you have mentions doesn't exceed 100. And you must admit that this is a problem. You cannot draw conclusions based on different tests, made on 100 volunteers, of which, nearly half of them were obese. You simply can't

4)

Frequent eating occasions provide a practical strategy allowing athletes to increase energy intake while concomitantly reducing the gastric discomfort of infrequent large meals.

I myself more often experience gastric discomfort when eating frequent meals. I am predisposed to bloating and flatulence has been a serious issue for me ever since I took on the 6 meals a day diet.

5) Parasympathetic (PS) vs. sympathetic (S) : bottom line - PS stimulates gastrointestinal activity, S inhibits it. PS is active during the night, S is (or at least should be) active, during the day.
http://www.nda.ox.ac.uk/wfsa/html/u05/u05_b02.htm
So if you eat during the day, the feedback mechanism forces the PS to come into action, hence the full range of effects, starting with reduced heart rate and ending with broncho-costriction. C'mon guys... it f*&^ing makes sense feeding in the evening (warning: feeding, not eating everything and anything you like)

5) A very important issue which I would like to discuss with you guys is the fact that the majority of the HGH secretion occurs during the night. So... unless you are using some "aids" (see the bb-o-s part), the majority of the anabolism takes place during that period. That includes reparatory function, protein synthesis and the like.

6) In the end (for now) I really think that things should not be taken "as is". One can also experiment with variations. If you do weight training at say 5 P.M., drink shake at 6 - 6:30, then one our later, eat the meal.. I think you can blend "both worlds" Let us remeber the intense disputes regarding light is a wave vs. a stream of particles. We all know that both theories were correct. Incomplete, but correct.

I would like to thank you for reading this LONG post, and I am looking forward to you posts, with arguments, pro and against this type of aprroach.

[kliplemet]

To me the term "warrior diet" brings up immages of hard crackers, canned dogfood at best. Where did he get the idea that "warriors" get optimum nutrition or that their activities are even remotely similar to those of the average obese person?

It should be noted that I have had no personal experience with this diet, I am always suspicious of 'diets', since there are only 3 macronutrients. Yes you can play around with the ratios, timing etc., but mostly it just boils down to : energy in < energy out=> weightloss, energy in = energy out=>weight maintenace and energy in > energy out=> weightgain.
Your level of activity will for a big part influence what you will lose or gain.

[mgoose]

I just want to say I had a biopsych class where the prof had also written our textbook, and he was one of those anti-estblishment types ie in our drug section he argued that LSD was healthier then tobacoo and alchohol.

The point I am trying to make he is definatley not the type to be a shill for the food industry.

He went OFF on the eating habits of western society, and he said we should be eating 5-6 times per day in smaller portions. Basically he said large calorie infusions are hard on the body, and if the body knows it has to wait a long time between calories it will attempt to store as much of the energy as fat as it can.

Essentialy you want to keep your calroic intake as level as possible throughout the day, that way you are reducing the need for your body to store fat. He also, obviously, abdicated portion control.

[Waxman]

Firstly, in response to Alan's statement about his clients. I understand they may have been on what looks like the Warrior Diet but one of the keys of the WD is that all the food should be as natural/organic/whole as possible. I doubt your clients were consuming a majority of raw, natural, unprocessed food. Regardless of diet regimen or structure, I think we can all agree that eating food as close to its natural state as possible is a concept that will never be refuted or said to be wrong.

After that, I can only offer my fairly new thoughts and perspectives on this most controvertial of subjects:

=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I am actually reading Ori's book "The Warrior Diet" right now. His suggestion is that from the time you wake up until you work out you limit your food intake to a few raw vegetables, berries or low GI fruits, and possibly for us lifters some clean low-dose protein sources such as cottage cheese or yogurt.

The thought behind this being that your body, in a controlled fast will up it's ability to recycle dead cells and tissues, its digestive enzymes, and it's insulin sensitivity all while lowering blood sugar and eliminating toxins and waste from your body (cleansing and detoxifying).

After this day long mini-fast, you have a workout which sounds odd but I've found more energy for being fasted all day than previously having 6 smallish meals, one of which was an hour before lifting.

After the workout your metabolism is primed, you're body is in an unrivaled food and nutrient utilization state and you follow it with a period of overeating, or controlled binging.

Begin with whole raw vegetables, have some soup, have a high protein main course, and if you choose follow with a carbohydrate such as bread or pasta. No counting calories, eat until your body tells you to stop (more thirsty than hungry or just plain full).

The diet is designed to maintain a lean body and mental acuity. It is not necessarily designed for pro bodybuilders but can be modified for anyone.

If you have interest in the diet, I suggest you gain access to Ori's book and also read some of Mike Mahler's articles on bb.com. Also, as a side note, Pavel "the Mad Russian" Tsatsouline has utilized the Warrior Diet as well.

Hope this information helps and is useful. Sorry for the length of this post but it's actually brief considering the info I have now on this diet.

[Wanker527]

bump for alan's response...

[hugoshi]

how many calories can you consume during the undereating phase?

and... you're supposed to weight train in that fasted state?!

[Funneir]

Originally Posted by kliplemet

To me the term "warrior diet" brings up immages of hard crackers, canned dogfood at best. Where did he get the idea that "warriors" get optimum nutrition or that their activities are even remotely similar to those of the average obese person?

It should be noted that I have had no personal experience with this diet, I am always suspicious of 'diets', since there are only 3 macronutrients. Yes you can play around with the ratios, timing etc., but mostly it just boils down to : energy in < energy out=> weightloss, energy in = energy out=>weight maintenace and energy in > energy out=> weightgain.
Your level of activity will for a big part influence what you will lose or gain.

I'm pretty sure the diet is named after the image of Nordic/medieval warriors. Often they would have absolute FEASTS at night where they ate until they just could not eat any more. Imagine a large hall packed with a hundred warriors, and huge tables covered with the finest meats and produce. These men didn't eat 6 small meals a day, they probably didn't even eat 2 meals a day. But when food was available they ate like animals...hence the cool name to the diet.

[Waxman]

So far, I have been practicing the warrior diet for about 2-3 weeks. I am amazed at the focus I have during the day and now, after the first week adjustment, I don't get hungry much at all during the day.

I usually have some fresh fruit, and some small portions of cottage cheese during the day but that is it. (You don't count calories ever, that's part of the diet)

As for working out, I am amazed that I am not dead after the first set of one-legged squats or weighted push-ups, but I am not. I have as much, if not more, energy as I did when I was doing 6 smaller meals per day.

At night however, I feast. Big salad, usually some vegetable soup of some kind, HUGE meat/protein portion, and if I am still hungry some carbs/pasta after it all. I eat so much and get so full I love it.

Oh, btw, in these 2-3 weeks I have lost about 1-2%bf and 5-7 bs. (My scale is slightly dependant on hydration/time of day so I gave a high and low range).

[masterfender]

I also tried this diet for some time.. and i lost about 3-4%bf in 2months. During the day i eat nothing but maybe a piece of fruit and during my workouts i had energy and everything(actually i was suprised i had that energy) after wo i had my proteinshake and thats all for the day.. as for the night i start w/ cottage cheese andthen lean meat or chicken w/ a lot of veggies..

[hugoshi]

I've done it for two days. I like it, I feel good, but my workout today SUCKED!. anyone have similar experiences with strength loss? I know people loose a bit of muscle on it, but I think I'm just weak from not eating, not muslce loss yet, since it's only been 2 days.

any suggestions? I was thinking of eating a pre feast meal, working out, and then eating my big meal of the day to help me get strong for a workout

or alternate warrior diet and non-warrior diet days to coincide with weight training days.

[skelooth]

WOW my 4 month old topic is still alive... and PACKED with on topic information! Good stuff!