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  1. #1
    Registered User sweetpaula's Avatar
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    Question Is soy protein bad?

    What do ya think of soy protein? I consume whey, but sometime I would like to throw in a scoop or 2 of soy protein, or sometimes consume soy milk.
    Will it keep my muscle gains alright or will I decrease my gains??
    Thanks for the opinions!!
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  2. #2
    Needs New Pics.. Sammy_Koelle's Avatar
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    Soy = Impotence
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  3. #3
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    i think it increases estrogen, so unless you have a vagina, it is a very bad idea.
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  4. #4
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    there is nothing wrong with a little soy milk it has some different benefits.. i would stick with the whey and drop the soy protein mix.. go with a cup of soy milk every once in a while for a change
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    Registered User pecan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LayzieBone085 View Post
    there is nothing wrong with a little soy milk it has some different benefits.. i would stick with the whey and drop the soy protein mix.. go with a cup of soy milk every once in a while for a change
    x2

    soy is not the best thing to center your diet around, but then again, it's best to balance your diet no matter what (for example, a diet of 90% whey isn't healthy either).

    adding a scoop of soy or drinking soy milk now and then will not have much of an effect. as long as you are getting the right amount of protein, you will make the gains you want regardless of the source.
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  6. #6
    Registered User mcdbb's Avatar
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    The estrogenic properties of soy being a problem are nothing but a myth. Soy is a terrific source of protein and should be incorporated into every diet, as far as I'm convinced. Natto, tofu, tempeh, soy milk - nothing wrong with them. You should be diversifying your protein sources anyway - beef, poultry, fish, soy, legumes, dairy, etc.

    Too much *MIGHT* be a bad thing but all of this pseudo-science going around that it makes men impotent and causes them to sprout breasts are just that - nonsense. Following this logic most of Eastern Asia should have zero population growth.
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  7. #7
    Registered User distantarray's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mcdbb View Post
    The estrogenic properties of soy being a problem are nothing but a myth. Soy is a terrific source of protein and should be incorporated into every diet, as far as I'm convinced. Natto, tofu, tempeh, soy milk - nothing wrong with them. You should be diversifying your protein sources anyway - beef, poultry, fish, soy, legumes, dairy, etc.

    Too much *MIGHT* be a bad thing but all of this pseudo-science going around that it makes men impotent and causes them to sprout breasts are just that - nonsense. Following this logic most of Eastern Asia should have zero population growth.
    You know the fun thing about the soy protein debate is people only hear what they want to hear, yes soy protein contains phyto-estrogen base which does highly mimic the properties of human estrogen, but the strange thing is under low doses phyto estrogen actually attaches itself to human estrogen cells making the body believe there is more estrogen in the body so it actually lowers it's estrogen production to comphensate, yet phyto estrogen doesn't have all the catabolic properties as normal human estrogen.

    Also another kicker is that the process of which soy protein is extracted uses alcohol, which depletes more than 98% of phyto-estrogen content so people really don't have anything to worry about.

    Magazines only sell what their advertisers want them to say, cause if they go against it then they will lose their sponsers. Prior to Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates, it wasn't uncommon for people to workout 4-5 hours a day to get onto the stage of Olympia.

    Mike Mentzer was the only guy in history to get a perfect score in Mr. Universe with a 300 twice, and also won Mr. Olympia titles in the late 70's early 80's.

    What made him so different? He only worked out 20-30minutes A WEEK!!!! 1 set of each exercise to complete failure with no rest between his workout. His family had a history of heart conditions, and in efforts to prolong his life he worked out but he limited his workout routine so he wouldn't over work his heart too often. Even though I don't think his aim was to ever become a professional bodybuilder at the start, he trully was a pioneer for the bodybuilding industry.

    Because of his success the standard of workout out and people overworking their bodies was greatly reduced, although even now people rarely ever talk about him anymore the effects of his influence still exists even if unknown to most people. Mike Mentzer always argued that supplement companies want you to overwork your bodies so you will NEED the supplements to progress.
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  8. #8
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    if you feel you really have to have soy in your diet, i would do the soymilk occasionaly instead of soy protein powder as a poster mentioned above. For the record i'm soyless.
    Last edited by zenzone; 04-29-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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  9. #9
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    The biggest mis-conception about Soy is that, because it contains phytoestrogens (plant chemicals that have oestrogenlike properties), it lowers testosterone and raises oestrogen levels. Yet study after study has shown this is not the case. A recent meta-analysis (an examination of previous research) analysed the 15 quality studies done on Soy and testoterone levels. The researchers concluded that soy does not alter testoserone concentrations in men.
    Anoter misconception about soy is that it does not increase muscle growth as well as milk-based proteins. Yet in one 2007 study found that when male bodybuilders supplemented twice daily with either a soy protein concentrate powder, soy protein isolate powder, soy/whey protein powder blend or whey protein isolate powder during a 12 week weight training programme, all increased muscle mass similarly regardless of what protein they were taking. This supported a 2006 Canadian research project that reported similar results in untrained subjects.
    Soy seems to stack up similarly to whey, and it also has benefits that whey and other proteins do not. The first is soy's ability to raise GH levels, which is likely to be due to it's high arginine and lysine content. It also boosts NO levels. Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University researchers found that soy phytoestrogen genistein increased NO levels by raising the amount of nitric oxide synthase (the enzyme that catalyses the conversion of arginine into NO). In addition, soy better enhances muscle recovery. A 2004 Ohio State study on muscle growth comparing soy and whey protein bars reported that men taking soy had better antioxident protection following excercise. Another 2004 study published in the International Journal of Sports Nutrition and Excercise Metabolism, found that when trained men consumed 40g of soy protein before lifting weights for four weeks, they had better antioxident protection following the workout compared to men who consumed whey protein.
    Because soy may increase NO and GH level, as well as enhance muscle recovery, it's a great protein to add to your pre- and postworkout protein shakes.
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  10. #10
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    I think when it come to soy, its effect on the thyroid is very often overlooked. For someone who has soy as a small part of their diet, not a big deal. But when used by vegans who use it as a primary source of protein I think it becomes a different story. I cant seem to find any studies on high intake of soy, but on a study done in babies on soy formula seem to be an equivalent.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14709499

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2338464

    Thyroid cancer

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12582024

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11815400 (epidemiological)

    Although iodine levels seems to be a confounding factor, I think it should still warrant concern for vegans.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by distantarray View Post
    You know the fun thing about the soy protein debate is people only hear what they want to hear, yes soy protein contains phyto-estrogen base which does highly mimic the properties of human estrogen, but the strange thing is under low doses phyto estrogen actually attaches itself to human estrogen cells making the body believe there is more estrogen in the body so it actually lowers it's estrogen production to comphensate, yet phyto estrogen doesn't have all the catabolic properties as normal human estrogen.

    Also another kicker is that the process of which soy protein is extracted uses alcohol, which depletes more than 98% of phyto-estrogen content so people really don't have anything to worry about.

    Magazines only sell what their advertisers want them to say, cause if they go against it then they will lose their sponsers. Prior to Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates, it wasn't uncommon for people to workout 4-5 hours a day to get onto the stage of Olympia.

    Mike Mentzer was the only guy in history to get a perfect score in Mr. Universe with a 300 twice, and also won Mr. Olympia titles in the late 70's early 80's.

    What made him so different? He only worked out 20-30minutes A WEEK!!!! 1 set of each exercise to complete failure with no rest between his workout. His family had a history of heart conditions, and in efforts to prolong his life he worked out but he limited his workout routine so he wouldn't over work his heart too often. Even though I don't think his aim was to ever become a professional bodybuilder at the start, he trully was a pioneer for the bodybuilding industry.

    Because of his success the standard of workout out and people overworking their bodies was greatly reduced, although even now people rarely ever talk about him anymore the effects of his influence still exists even if unknown to most people. Mike Mentzer always argued that supplement companies want you to overwork your bodies so you will NEED the supplements to progress.
    Did not know this about Mentzer. Will look into him now. Thanks.
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  12. #12
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    Males do not need an excess of soy protein because of the amount of estrogen found in it.

    That isn't to say that Soy protein is bad for you, it just shouldn't make up the bulk/majority of your milk or protein consumption. You should stick with Whey as the other option.

    If you're speaking about just milk, there's always just organic or Almond milk if you don't want to have regular and aren't sure about Soy.
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    Soy paranoia is what it is. It's ridiculous. Has there ever been one single solitary guy anywhere who has had a visible "estrogen effect" from soy isolate?
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    Originally Posted by distantarray View Post
    You know the fun thing about the soy protein debate is people only hear what they want to hear, yes soy protein contains phyto-estrogen base which does highly mimic the properties of human estrogen, but the strange thing is under low doses phyto estrogen actually attaches itself to human estrogen cells making the body believe there is more estrogen in the body so it actually lowers it's estrogen production to comphensate, yet phyto estrogen doesn't have all the catabolic properties as normal human estrogen.

    Also another kicker is that the process of which soy protein is extracted uses alcohol, which depletes more than 98% of phyto-estrogen content so people really don't have anything to worry about.

    Magazines only sell what their advertisers want them to say, cause if they go against it then they will lose their sponsers. Prior to Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates, it wasn't uncommon for people to workout 4-5 hours a day to get onto the stage of Olympia.

    Mike Mentzer was the only guy in history to get a perfect score in Mr. Universe with a 300 twice, and also won Mr. Olympia titles in the late 70's early 80's.

    What made him so different? He only worked out 20-30minutes A WEEK!!!! 1 set of each exercise to complete failure with no rest between his workout. His family had a history of heart conditions, and in efforts to prolong his life he worked out but he limited his workout routine so he wouldn't over work his heart too often. Even though I don't think his aim was to ever become a professional bodybuilder at the start, he trully was a pioneer for the bodybuilding industry.

    Because of his success the standard of workout out and people overworking their bodies was greatly reduced, although even now people rarely ever talk about him anymore the effects of his influence still exists even if unknown to most people. Mike Mentzer always argued that supplement companies want you to overwork your bodies so you will NEED the supplements to progress.
    It's true that Mentzer trained high intensity, but didn't he used to do 5-6 warm up sets that he didn't count as actual sets?
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    soy is too slow to digest
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    Originally Posted by jdrdroo View Post
    Soy paranoia is what it is. It's ridiculous. Has there ever been one single solitary guy anywhere who has had a visible "estrogen effect" from soy isolate?
    Exactly. I'm going to start using Soy in conjunction with my WPI's etc. and record my results.
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  17. #17
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    I know its too late to join in this thread, but a couple of replies dated this year prompted me to write.

    There has been too much unnecessary controversy surrounding Soy - whether it is boiled soy beans, tofu, or TVP (meat substitutes). I have been training for few years now. I am a vegetarian & have had no problem winning competitions. I am a wrestler & not a bodybuilder.

    The meat & diary industry are responsible for this anti-soy propaganda. If Soy made men impotent, then i should not have been born lol . We Asians have been eating soy for 1000s of years. Nothing bad has ever happened. But on the contrary, life span increases, muscle recovery happens faster on a soy diet. Once the meat industry could not attack whole soy beans , they spit venom on TVP products saying it contains MSG & it is carcinogenic. All this is crow ****. MSG is formed even in the human body when sodium from diet reacts with glutamic acid (protein in body). All chemistry students know this too well.

    The process of TVP is not intended to manufacture MSG. It gets formed in the process & that too in very very low amounts. It is possible to wake up a sleeping man but impossible to wake up someone who pretends to sleep. So, comments like Soy is good for "people with vagina" , "good for developing breasts only" etc etc show how ignorant people are. It is not just ignorance but unwillingness to learn & a closed mind that stops progress.

    Personally, i am a living example of a person who has been eating soy products. I have had no problems squatting 200 kg for 8 reps & then discuss world political scenario with my partner in the gym. I also see that most muscle builders build muscle on steroids & other harmful supplements & then they make fun of vegan athletes. This is totally incorrect comparison. A Vegan food can easily build muscle as a meat food. If i take steroids then any day, i would look like a pro-bodybuilder.My 200 kg squat was done on pure food - not even protein powders ( though i take now). This is a proof that protein is not a rare-to-get-commodity for vegetarians.

    My kind advice to such people is that they take pains to visit a TVP plant & talk to quality control engineers & nutritionists & read as much as possible. Also, taking a good look at people in japan, china etc will do more good.

    Thank you. This post is not intended to hurt anyone here but to encourage an open mindedness to keep learning.

    Happy learning & happy training !
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  18. #18
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    Yes I know I'm grave digging. However, it's worth it to debunk this sort of non-sense.

    Looking at peer-reviewed scientific studies among other trusted sources.... soy won't make a man grow breasts.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11880595
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17885008 (this link shows that it helps prevent prostate cancer in those with high risk of getting it)
    http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/soy-p...male-impotence
    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsle...n-and-soy-milk

    Bacon bits have higher isoflavone content than soy? Hmm... then why haven't bacon eaters been turned into feminine people?

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsle...selected-foods
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    You should absolutely avoid Soy!!! Vegans disregard this!

    No its not gonna turn you into a woman. But unless you're a vegan, then you should avoid soy protein. The soybean contains large quantities of natural toxins or "antinutrients". First among them are potent enzyme inhibitors that block the action of trypsin and other enzymes needed for protein digestion. These inhibitors are large, tightly folded proteins that are not completely deactivated during ordinary cooking. They can produce serious gastric distress, reduced protein digestion and chronic deficiencies in amino acid uptake. So if you consume soy protein on a daily basis you might as well throw away your whey, casein, or any chicken, fish or beef you may have bought. Intake of soy will make it impossible to digest other proteins. Soybeans also contain haemagglutinin, a clot-promoting substance that causes red blood cells to clump together. And also soy protein isolate is not so good either. In feeding experiments, the use of "soy protein isolate" increased requirements for vitamins E, K, D and B12 and created deficiency symptoms of calcium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, copper, iron and zinc. I found all this info on various health & science websites. Bodybuilding.com has an article up from 2005 talking about the benifits of soy. But they also discuss the negatives. But that was 7 yrs ago. There's new proven research on the negativity of soy and i for one will keep my distance. I think its best to keep it basic. Jus focus on getting good amounts of protein (whey isolate is best) and complex carbs and keep kickin ass in the gym and you'll get your results. Consistency + Dedication = Results!
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    Thanks

    Thanks for all the helpful reading on soy, I have been reading up on it for the past two weeks debating wether to keep taking it or not and I am going to keep consuming it. Thanks!

    First post ever.

    -James Jasperson
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    Originally Posted by JamesJasperson View Post
    Thanks for all the helpful reading on soy, I have been reading up on it for the past two weeks debating wether to keep taking it or not and I am going to keep consuming it. Thanks!

    First post ever.

    -James Jasperson
    Thank you for using the search feature.
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    I'm looking at buying Soy protein powder to form my protein drinks, mainly because it appears to be a lot cheaper than Whey protein. What is the latest research about the positives/negatives? I would be having two shakes a day maximum - the shakes are mainly to boost my calorie intake, so will be mixed with various other ingredients - not just protein powder.

    I know - the post is slightly old, but not that old so I thought I'd post here instead of opening a whole new thread.
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    Originally Posted by FitnessFan76 View Post
    I'm looking at buying Soy protein powder to form my protein drinks, mainly because it appears to be a lot cheaper than Whey protein. What is the latest research about the positives/negatives? I would be having two shakes a day maximum - the shakes are mainly to boost my calorie intake, so will be mixed with various other ingredients - not just protein powder.

    I know - the post is slightly old, but not that old so I thought I'd post here instead of opening a whole new thread.
    Have you looked at Dymatize elite gourmet or XT?

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/elitegourmet.html

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/elitegourmet.html

    Maybe even Universal Nutrition: Milk & Egg

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/milkandegg.html

    Those three are really inexpensive, but there is nothing wrong with soy, soy aint gonna kill you!


    EDIT: Walmart sells Body Fortress pretty cheap sometimes too.
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    Originally Posted by HILMAN76 View Post
    Have you looked at Dymatize elite gourmet or XT?

    Those three are really inexpensive, but there is nothing wrong with soy, soy aint gonna kill you!


    EDIT: Walmart sells Body Fortress pretty cheap sometimes too.
    I'm from the UK - there are a lot of things at the store that aren't available here annoyingly. Also, it appears that things like Myofusion are tons cheaper in the States as well - you guys have it so good with prices!

    Thanks for the info anyway - I'll just go with the soy protein.
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    Originally Posted by FitnessFan76 View Post
    I'm from the UK - there are a lot of things at the store that aren't available here annoyingly. Also, it appears that things like Myofusion are tons cheaper in the States as well - you guys have it so good with prices!

    Thanks for the info anyway - I'll just go with the soy protein.
    Read up on Pea protein powder also if you have time, looks like another good protein alternative that is inexpensive.
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    Originally Posted by HILMAN76 View Post
    Read up on Pea protein powder also if you have time, looks like another good protein alternative that is inexpensive.
    Thanks. Just found Milk and Egg protein at Amazon:

    Vyomax Milk and Egg Protein Banana Powder 2.5Kg - around £22.

    Pretty much the same price as the Soy protein. Egg protein is supposed to be among the most 'complete' isn't it? Actually, it's milk, egg and whey protein.

    Have you tried Soy or Pea protein - do they in any way taste like Soy or Peas - might not go well with fruit if that's the case? What I'm looking for ideally is either something without any flavour, or Banana/Vanilla - that way I can add a banana to the shake for flavour.


    From Muscle and Strength.com:

    Egg protein is made from egg whites. It's fat-free, very high in protein, and is considered a perfect source for protein because of it's complete makeup of essential amino acids, branch chain amino acids, and glutamic acid.

    Once egg protein is in your system, it is completely absorbed by your body. When other proteins are measured for quality and effectiveness, egg protein is at the top of the list and it's the standard for measurement.
    After reading that, I reckon the milk, egg and whey protein is the way to go.
    Last edited by FitnessFan76; 02-10-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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    Originally Posted by FitnessFan76 View Post
    Thanks. Just found Milk and Egg protein at Amazon - pretty much the same price as the Soy protein.
    Buy the one that has the most servings, more bang for your buck!

    I liked the Vanilla flavor better than the chocolate flavor Milk & Egg. I bought both at the same time.
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    Originally Posted by HILMAN76 View Post
    Buy the one that has the most servings, more bang for your buck!

    I liked the Vanilla flavor better than the chocolate flavor Milk & Egg. I bought both at the same time.
    When it comes to the bang for buck, the Soy protein wins - it has more servings. After checking though, the servings are much smaller: 10g servings providing around 9g protein as opposed to 50g servings for the Vyomax, giving around 18g of protein. Sounds like the Soy product provides more protein per gram, but the egg/milk/whey is a more complete protein that does a better job. Sheesh.
    Last edited by FitnessFan76; 02-10-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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    Hi guys! I think soy is a good protein source, and however maybe not a good idea by itself alone, combining with whey(and casein) it have more complex effects. Because whey also has amino weaknesess that can be improved by other sources . It helps you get rid of excess estrogen. And i've read on wikipedia some bacteria converts dadzein to S-equol if you have healthy guts(i have fibers and yoghurt in my diet and i stay away from anti-biotics) which is a non steroidal estrogen that prefers to bind to estrogen receptor-beta which is in blood vessels,brain,bones in a high number(has good effects). And take it into consideration, these phyto estrogens are very weak(100-1000 times weaker than animal/human estradiol). I didn't have problems with the digestation(no gas problems,diarrhoeia), my mood increased a bit,so as my self-confidence,was no decrease in being interested in sex,my balls haven't shrunked, my facial hairs still grows. So theres nothing to be affraid of(i take it more than a year)! Here in Hungary i think many people uses mixed protein powders due to financial issues and they haven't become female. Shops tend to say whey is much superrior to soy because it's price.
    Give it a try and see if it works for you or not. Hope it helped.
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    Originally Posted by snack22 View Post
    Hi guys! I think soy is a good protein source, and however maybe not a good idea by itself alone, combining with whey(and casein) it have more complex effects. Because whey also has amino weaknesess that can be improved by other sources . It helps you get rid of excess estrogen. And i've read on wikipedia some bacteria converts dadzein to S-equol if you have healthy guts(i have fibers and yoghurt in my diet and i stay away from anti-biotics) which is a non steroidal estrogen that prefers to bind to estrogen receptor-beta which is in blood vessels,brain,bones in a high number(has good effects). And take it into consideration, these phyto estrogens are very weak(100-1000 times weaker than animal/human estradiol). I didn't have problems with the digestation(no gas problems,diarrhoeia), my mood increased a bit,so as my self-confidence,was no decrease in being interested in sex,my balls haven't shrunked, my facial hairs still grows. So theres nothing to be affraid of(i take it more than a year)! Here in Hungary i think many people uses mixed protein powders due to financial issues and they haven't become female. Shops tend to say whey is much superrior to soy because it's price.
    Give it a try and see if it works for you or not. Hope it helped.
    Yeah I have been taking soy whey protein mix more whey then soy like a 60 whey/40 soy mix. For 4 months now, I'm fine as I was at the beginning year. Have no test drop, man boobs, lump on the nipples, etc. About a month ago I just added a bcaa concentrate to my 4lb mix. So only down side is that its all flavorless, lol. But I'm almost down with it and gonna be starting popular brand wheys, not bulk buy. So I see no problem with soy.
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