Ask About Islam 2

[TranceNRG]

what is your opinion:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=5338

The Principles of Administration, Imam Ali's letter to Malik Al-Ashtar

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=3829

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=2716

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3582951

[j miller]

No problem.
That's an easy-to-read book from the shia perspective.

Yeah, it reads well. I also went into the website of the FOundation. I found the conversion (or is it reversion?) stories interesting.

[Lion of Zion]

The Principles of Administration, Imam Ali's letter to Malik Al-Ashtar

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=3829

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...postcount=2716

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3582951

So you support limited rights for non-muslims as Islamic Law prescribes?

[TranceNRG]

Yeah, it reads well. I also went into the website of the FOundation. I found the conversion (or is it reversion?) stories interesting.

Glad to hear you found them interesting.

[TranceNRG]

So you support limited rights for non-muslims as Islamic Law prescribes?

Did you read any of the links?
Which of the Islamic laws in regards to non-muslims are you concerned with?

[SYRIANKID]

What school of Islamic jurisprudence do you subscribe to?


You have expressed your desire for an Islamic Caliphate in modern times. Could you describe what rights a zimmis (non-Muslims) would have under this rule according to Islamic law.

Non-Muslims would have the same rights as Muslims except for the following exceptions:

1) Non-Muslims could not be the Caliph or Amirs, but they could have lower administrative posts especially concerning their own religions and people.

2) While Muslims (men and women) pay the zakat tax, which is 2.5% of all standing wealth, non-Muslim men must pay the jizya tax, which is some fixed amount every year. Poor non-Muslims or ones that serve in the army do not need to pay.

3) Non-Muslims are not allowed to preach their religion to others, but they can practice it and are even allowed to have independent laws to suit their marriages, divorces, inheritance, etc.

[jwm02]

Non-Muslims would have the same rights as Muslims except for the following exceptions:

1) Non-Muslims could not be the Caliph or Amirs, but they could have lower administrative posts especially concerning their own religions and people.

2) While Muslims (men and women) pay the zakat tax, which is 2.5% of all standing wealth, non-Muslim men must pay the jizya tax, which is some fixed amount every year. Poor non-Muslims or ones that serve in the army do not need to pay.

3) Non-Muslims are not allowed to preach their religion to others, but they can practice it and are even allowed to have independent laws to suit their marriages, divorces, inheritance, etc.

And what happens if a non-Muslim wants to marry a Muslim?

[SYRIANKID]

And what happens if a non-Muslim wants to marry a Muslim?

It's always the case that a Muslim male can marry a Jew or Christian, but a Muslim female can only marry a Muslim male. That doesn't change based on where you go.

[jwm02]

It's always the case that a Muslim male can marry a Jew or Christian, but a Muslim female can only marry a Muslim male. That doesn't change based on where you go.

If I understand ur answer--a Muslim male who marries someone of another eligion, he can be married in that person's house of worship?

[SYRIANKID]

If I understand ur answer--a Muslim male who marries someone of another eligion, he can be married in that person's house of worship?

Technically he can, but since Muslims are not supposed to be in places where religious innovations and idolatry take place, it would have to be a very neutral event. A Muslim wedding ceremony is very simple. Also, a Muslim wouldn't want to be in a place where people aren't dressed conservatively.

[jwm02]

Technically he can, but since Muslims are not supposed to be in places where religious innovations and idolatry take place, it would have to be a very neutral event. A Muslim wedding ceremony is very simple. Also, a Muslim wouldn't want to be in a place where people aren't dressed conservatively.

Culd it take place in a non-religious building--e.g. courthouse or other legal setting?

[big_nas]

Since we are on the topic of marriage. What is the islamic way for marriage.

I ask because from weddings that I have been too there seems to be a mix of cultural traditions and islam.

Is encoporating these cultural traditions into weddings prohibited in islam. One of these cultural traditions include mendhi and there are also other things but im not sure what they are called.

Also in recent years it has been common for people to hire out lavish cars and expensive limos e.t.c. Is this allowed or not in Islam?

Jazakallahu Khayran

[SYRIANKID]

Since we are on the topic of marriage. What is the islamic way for marriage.

I ask because from weddings that I have been too there seems to be a mix of cultural traditions and islam.

Is encoporating these cultural traditions into weddings prohibited in islam. One of these cultural traditions include mendhi and there are also other things but im not sure what they are called.

Also in recent years it has been common for people to hire out lavish cars and expensive limos e.t.c. Is this allowed or not in Islam?

Jazakallahu Khayran

As-Salaamu aleikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatahu
Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem
Allahuma Salli 'ala Muhammad wa 'ala aalihi wa sahbihi ajma'een wa sallim

Here are the simple requirements for a marriage:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=2123

And weddings should not have many expenses, yet unfortunately many people are blocked from marrying early these days because families drive up wedding costs.

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

The most blessed marriages are those with the least expenses

The best woman is the one whose dowry is the easiest to pay.

Jazakum Allah Khair
Barak Allah Feekum
W'as-Salaamu aleikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatahu

[SYRIANKID]

Culd it take place in a non-religious building--e.g. courthouse or other legal setting?

Yes, but it is preferred to be in a Mosque.

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

Make the marriage publicly known, and perform it in mosques

[Norse]

Hey guys. How do you feel about the Canadian-****lian Muslim who died via cyanide poisoning here in Denver just 2 weeks before the DNC? He had enough powdered cyanide, which if turned into gas, would kill hundreds of people.

[MegaPump]

Are muslims the chosen ones ?

[linuxg]

from your link, trance:

"It is mentioned in narrations that once Ibrahim (a.s.) asked the angel of death, "What shape do you assume while fetching the soul of unbeliever?" The angel replied, "You will not be able to look at that frightening shape." The Friend of God repeated, "I intend to see it." He saw the angel in the form of a black man. His hair was standing on its end all over his body. A foul stench emanated from that frightening figure. His clothes were dark and flames and smoke leapt out from his mouth and nose. Ibrahim (a.s.) became unconscious. When he came to sense he said, "Even if the unbeliever is not given any other punishment, seeing you in this form is torture enough for him."

so I assume the angel's shape is always that of the frightening figure. Because there are people dying every second of every minute. strong doesnt make any sense.

[TranceNRG]

from your link, trance:

"It is mentioned in narrations that once Ibrahim (a.s.) asked the angel of death, "What shape do you assume while fetching the soul of unbeliever?" The angel replied, "You will not be able to look at that frightening shape." The Friend of God repeated, "I intend to see it." He saw the angel in the form of a black man. His hair was standing on its end all over his body. A foul stench emanated from that frightening figure. His clothes were dark and flames and smoke leapt out from his mouth and nose. Ibrahim (a.s.) became unconscious. When he came to sense he said, "Even if the unbeliever is not given any other punishment, seeing you in this form is torture enough for him."

so I assume the angel's shape is always that of the frightening figure. Because there are people dying every second of every minute. strong doesnt make any sense.

?
The angel's form isn't the cause of death, rather its shape, depending on the individual, is the final image the individual sees in this world before being taken away.

[j miller]

Glad to hear you found them interesting.

I wuld suggest that anyone interested in learning abut Islam's impact read these pages of conversion stories. They are good reading.
Again, thanks for the referral

[j miller]

I wuld suggest that anyone interested in learning abut Islam's impact read these pages of conversion stories. They are good reading.
Again, thanks for the referral

While this quote doesn't list the sites...I am sure Syrian kid or Trance culd list them again for you.
I found some at the Mahdifoundation.com I believe this is a Shiite site?)

[linuxg]

?
The angel's form isn't the cause of death, rather its shape, depending on the individual, is the final image the individual sees in this world before being taken away.

i know but if sinners are dying ever second of every minute, then the angel's form would be permanently that of the frightening figure. unless he takes a vacation from collecting souls. anyway angels are not omnipotent so iz'rael cannot be everywhere at once.

[TranceNRG]

i know but if sinners are dying ever second of every minute, then the angel's form would be permanently that of the frightening figure. unless he takes a vacation from collecting souls. anyway angels are not omnipotent so iz'rael cannot be everywhere at once.

You're right, angels are not omnipotent. However, they have as much power as God permits them to have, and this could include being at many places at once. They could have the power to be beyond time and space, not because this is the power they inherently have, but rather because that is the power that God gave to them and permitted them to have.

[TranceNRG]

While this quote doesn't list the sites...I am sure Syrian kid or Trance culd list them again for you.
I found some at the Mahdifoundation.com I believe this is a Shiite site?)

Converts To Islam, An Inspirational Collection of Conversion Stories To Islam

[j miller]

Converts To Islam, An Inspirational Collection of Conversion Stories To Islam

I don't know if this is the right site, but I think it would be awesome if contributors to the thread who converted to Islam would tell their stories for our edification.

[Lion of Zion]

.............

What school of Islamic jurisprudence do you subscribe to?

Non-Muslims would have the same rights as Muslims except for the following exceptions:

So firstly, before we get into these "exceptions" you find it acceptable for double standard in the law? You do not believe in equality that is the cornerstone of the liberal democracy?

2) While Muslims (men and women) pay the zakat tax, which is 2.5% of all standing wealth, non-Muslim men must pay the jizya tax, which is some fixed amount every year. Poor non-Muslims or ones that serve in the army do not need to pay.

What is your historical standing to state that it is 2.5%?

Paying the Jizya is a symbol of humiliation and submission because Zimmis are not regarded as citizens of the Islamic state. In his book The Islamic Law Pertaining to non-Muslims, Sheikh `Abdulla Mustafa Al-Muraghi indicates that the. Jizya can only be exempted from the Zimmi who becomes a Muslim or dies. The Shafi`i reiterates that the Jizya is not automatically put aside when the Zimmi embraces Islam. Exemption from the Jizya has become an incentive to encourage Zimmis to relinquish their faith and embrace Islam.

Sheik Najih Ibrahim Ibn Abdulla summarizes the purpose of the Jizya. He says, quoting Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, that the Jizya is enacted:

"to spare the blood (of the Zimmis), to be a symbol of humiliation of the infidels and as an insult and punishment to them, and as the Shafi`ites indicate, the Jizya is offered in exchange for residing in an Islamic country." Thus Ibn Qayyim adds, "Since the entire religion belongs to God, it aims at humiliating ungodliness and its followers, and insulting them. Imposing the Jizya on the followers of ungodliness and oppressing them is required by God's religion. The Qur'anic text hints at this meaning when it says: `until they give the tribute by force with humiliation.' (Qur'an 9:29). What contradicts this is leaving the infidels to enjoy their might and practice their religion as they wish so that they would have power and authority."

3) Non-Muslims are not allowed to preach their religion to others, but they can practice it and are even allowed to have independent laws to suit their marriages, divorces, inheritance, etc.

In other words they are not allowed freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of association...

You seem to leave out a lot of the restrictions how ever that Islamic law calls for (which is why I ask what school of Islamic jurisprudence do you subscribe to?)

Do you agree with the following laws, which have historicly been applyed to the Zimmis and holds basis in Islamic law according to Muslim jurists.

-Zimmis are not allowed to build new churches, temples, or synagogues.
-Zimmis are not allowed to pray or read their sacred books out loud at home or in churches
-Zimmis are not allowed to print their religious books or sell them in public places and markets.
-Zimmis are not allowed to install the cross on their houses or churches since it is a symbol of infidelity.
-Zimmis are not permitted to broadcast or display their ceremonial religious rituals on radio or television or to use the media or to publish any picture of their religious ceremonies in newspaper and magazines.
-Zimmis are not allowed to congregate in the streets during their religious festivals; rather, each must quietly make his way to his church or temple.
-Zimmis are not allowed to join the army unless there is indispensable need for them in which case they are not allowed to assume leadership positions but are considered mercenaries.

Now please, before you respond with more deception as I see you do though out this thread keep in mind your consistent glorification of the Ottoman Empire, these are laws regarding treatment of non-muslims straight from the early Ottoman Empire. The entity that you profess a wish to revive.

[SYRIANKID]

What school of Islamic jurisprudence do you subscribe to?

Shaffii school.

So firstly, before we get into these "exceptions" you find it acceptable for double standard in the law? You do not believe in equality that is the cornerstone of the liberal democracy?

No, I do not believe that all citizens have equal status under the Law. Clearly one's status is based on their religious beliefs.

What is your historical standing to state that it is 2.5%?

The zakat is 2.5%, based on several Prophetic statements such as:

Pay a fortieth. A dirham is payable on every forty, but you are not liable for payment until you have accumulated two hundred dirhams. When you have two hundred dirhams, five dirhams are payable, and that proportion is applicable to larger amounts.

The Jizya on the other hand is not a specified percentage. Rather, it is a fixed lump sum

Paying the Jizya is a symbol of humiliation and submission because Zimmis are not regarded as citizens of the Islamic state. In his book The Islamic Law Pertaining to non-Muslims, Sheikh `Abdulla Mustafa Al-Muraghi indicates that the. Jizya can only be exempted from the Zimmi who becomes a Muslim or dies. The Shafi`i reiterates that the Jizya is not automatically put aside when the Zimmi embraces Islam. Exemption from the Jizya has become an incentive to encourage Zimmis to relinquish their faith and embrace Islam.

This is true except for the fact that becoming a Muslim does mean one does no longer need to pay the Jizya.

Sheik Najih Ibrahim Ibn Abdulla summarizes the purpose of the Jizya. He says, quoting Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, that the Jizya is enacted:

"to spare the blood (of the Zimmis), to be a symbol of humiliation of the infidels and as an insult and punishment to them, and as the Shafi`ites indicate, the Jizya is offered in exchange for residing in an Islamic country." Thus Ibn Qayyim adds, "Since the entire religion belongs to God, it aims at humiliating ungodliness and its followers, and insulting them. Imposing the Jizya on the followers of ungodliness and oppressing them is required by God's religion. The Qur'anic text hints at this meaning when it says: `until they give the tribute by force with humiliation.' (Qur'an 9:29). What contradicts this is leaving the infidels to enjoy their might and practice their religion as they wish so that they would have power and authority."

That's also true.

In other words they are not allowed freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of association...

You seem to leave out a lot of the restrictions how ever that Islamic law calls for (which is why I ask what school of Islamic jurisprudence do you subscribe to?)

When it comes to spreading non-Islamic religions, people do not have the freedom of speech. I don't see where the freedom of association comes into play, but there are laws even in modern countries against loitering or congregating in groups for no purpose or any purpose that is perceived to be threatening.

Do you agree with the following laws, which have historicly been applyed to the Zimmis and holds basis in Islamic law according to Muslim jurists.

-Zimmis are not allowed to build new churches, temples, or synagogues.
-Zimmis are not allowed to pray or read their sacred books out loud at home or in churches
-Zimmis are not allowed to print their religious books or sell them in public places and markets.
-Zimmis are not allowed to install the cross on their houses or churches since it is a symbol of infidelity.
-Zimmis are not permitted to broadcast or display their ceremonial religious rituals on radio or television or to use the media or to publish any picture of their religious ceremonies in newspaper and magazines.
-Zimmis are not allowed to congregate in the streets during their religious festivals; rather, each must quietly make his way to his church or temple.
-Zimmis are not allowed to join the army unless there is indispensable need for them in which case they are not allowed to assume leadership positions but are considered mercenaries.

None of these laws are explicitly commanded in Islam, so they would only be applicable in cases when it was perceived that non-Muslims were propagating as opposed to merely practicing their religions. The rule is that private practice of religion is totally allowed. The problems arise when people take this into the public sphere. In light of that, some of the above laws don't need to go to the extent of prohbiting reading aloud in private or print religious books as long as they are not distributed to non-practitioners.

And the last point is true, about the fact that non-Muslims should not join the army without need and would not assume leadership positions.

Now please, before you respond with more deception as I see you do though out this thread keep in mind your consistent glorification of the Ottoman Empire, these are laws regarding treatment of non-muslims straight from the early Ottoman Empire. The entity that you profess a wish to revive.

I never respond with deception, actually. I'm very honest and straightforward.

As for the Ottoman Empire, it comprised of tens of different leaders, so we grade each one individually against Islamic Law. From what you've mentioned, while those specific laws are not commanded in Islam, there is also nothing that prohibits their implementation should the Caliph find justification for them. However, they are certainly not the default and the general Islamic attitude is much more lenient than that.

[SYRIANKID]

Hey guys. How do you feel about the Canadian-****lian Muslim who died via cyanide poisoning here in Denver just 2 weeks before the DNC? He had enough powdered cyanide, which if turned into gas, would kill hundreds of people.

I don't know the details about this incident. But obviously it's a sad case when anyone is poisoned if that's what happened.

[SYRIANKID]

Are muslims the chosen ones ?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the chosen ones," but Muslims do believe that they are the only people that believe and practice what God has revealed to mankind and feel it's their duty to inform others about the details of these revelations. I don't think that attitude is unique to Muslims though.

[jwm02]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the chosen ones," but Muslims do believe that they are the only people that believe and practice what God has revealed to mankind and feel it's their duty to inform others about the details of these revelations. I don't think that attitude is unique to Muslims though.

No, it is also true of Christianity. And certainly a keystone of Judiasm has been its "chosen people" theme. Certainly it is central to monotheism and has caused both blessing and pain to humanity.

[SYRIANKID]

No, it is also true of Christianity. And certainly a keystone of Judiasm has been its "chosen people" theme. Certainly it is central to monotheism and has caused both blessing and pain to humanity.

Well, any time people feel they are right and everyone else is wrong about a serious issue, there's potential for conflict. Humans find reasons to fight over anything ranging from jealousy to feelings of entitlement over land and property.