Squats: A2G vs. Parallel

[surlycurmudgeon]

When I got started, I took all the advice that says deep squats are bad on the knees and so forth. Did parallels for the past 3 months or so. Squats and deadlifts gave me a little lower back irritation from an old injury, but nothing that really sidelined me.

This morning, I decided to go deep and see how it felt. I had to give up about 15% of my max weight, but there was absolutely no irritation. I think that parallels were encouraging me to lean forward just a little too much, and get my back more involved than I want it to be. Or maybe the lighter weight kept me from getting intense enough to aggravate it.

So I'm wondering... Which do y'all think it is, and is there a reason to do both kinds? Should I alternate styles, or just stay with the deep ones?

[ServoScanMan]

I can't answer your question but, I switched to ATG squats about 3 months ago. I was hesitant because I thought it would hurt my knees but it doesn't. I am at a lighter weight but I feel more of my glutes and hamstrings than before. I use it as my first exercise on leg day.

[BrandonLee]

sorry define atg squat

[ghvy1122]

Ass to Ground

[Arlecchino]

Originally Posted by surlycurmudgeon

When I got started, I took all the advice that says deep squats are bad on the knees and so forth. Did parallels for the past 3 months or so. Squats and deadlifts gave me a little lower back irritation from an old injury, but nothing that really sidelined me.

This morning, I decided to go deep and see how it felt. I had to give up about 15% of my max weight, but there was absolutely no irritation. I think that parallels were encouraging me to lean forward just a little too much, and get my back more involved than I want it to be. Or maybe the lighter weight kept me from getting intense enough to aggravate it.

So I'm wondering... Which do y'all think it is, and is there a reason to do both kinds? Should I alternate styles, or just stay with the deep ones?

I would highly encourage squatting as deeply as possible with proper technique.

[JRT6]

I'm middle of the road on this. ATG is not bad for your knees but it isn't necessary either. I have some bone spurs in my knees so too many low squats make my knees hurt. I was alternating high box and low box squat days but now I do parallel back squats for high reps then I do a couple sets of low rep zercher squats and I go down until the bar touches my legs.

[Bodysteele]

Originally Posted by ServoScanMan

I can't answer your question but, I switched to ATG squats about 3 months ago. I was hesitant because I thought it would hurt my knees but it doesn't. I am at a lighter weight but I feel more of my glutes and hamstrings than before. I use it as my first exercise on leg day.

DING DING DING right answer.

Suck it up...

Take off the weight...

And do perform the exercise properly.

I could work my quads by loading up 3 plates and going down 6 inchs but who am I fooling?

I took off the weight and these ATG feel great. Ill be at 315 before too long and going ALL THE WAY DOWN.

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

I would highly encourage squatting as deeply as possible with proper technique.

That's the right answer. The key words are "proper technique".

When going all the way ATG, many, if not most, people have a tendency to round their lower backs. If that's happening, you are going too deep. You need to keep the proper curvature in your lower spine at all times.

Most people can get below parallel with the proper back position.

Mark Rippetoe comments on ATG squatting

[surlycurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Dave76

That's the right answer. The key words are "proper technique".

When going all the way ATG, many, if not most, people have a tendency to round their lower backs. If that's happening, you are going too deep. You need to keep the proper curvature in your lower spine at all times.

Most people can get below parallel with the proper back position.

Mark Rippetoe comments on ATG squatting

Thanks for the note from Rippetoe (side note: I have his book and have been using it as my guide). Based on what he says, I'm going as low as I should. I haven't hit those last few inches because it feels like I'd have to "let go" with my back muscles, and that just seems wrong/dangerous. Mark's comments confirm it. But I am getting hams against calves and quads into my belly, which I wasn't doing before.

[Most Muscular]

Athough I can't squat anymore because my chiropractor has warned me that I have a bad lower lumbar and doing any exercise that compresses it further may mean the end of lifting in my future... and walking for that matter too... but I still believe that squats (atg) are what gave me my leg (and overall body) development in the past.

What does Dr. Squat say?

http://drsquat.com/home/index.php?op...=103&Itemid=28

nuff said...

[greyhair]

3/4, parallel, or ATG Squats.
They are all good but I think ATG is over rated.
For me, they are tough to balance and I actually think parallel is the hardest on the legs.
The parallel position is about where I'm weakest.
When I managed ATG without falling over, I usually feel like I'm cruising past my sticking point with momentum.

The biggest problem with 3/4s is the tendency to allow them to creep up and up until your doing 1/2 squats.

They are all good, but which is better depends on the lifter.

For example, I train my wife once/week.

She does 3/4 squats.
Lighten the load, she still does 3/4.
Make it heavier, she does 3/4.

I can't tell you why, but it just is.

So, for a lifter like that, you might as well "go with it" and push the training at 3/4 rather than languish at ATG.

[mhar15931]

I always do ATG's also but then a personal trainer said you dont need to go so low.

[newmexico123]

Instead of ATGs i would do low box squats

[dbx]

There is no "right" answer here for what the OP asked. It's more a question of preference, ability and/or benefit....not right or wrong.

In other words, like BB vs. DB....there's not necessarily one way that's "better" than another....just different benefits derived from either one.

Some people, like myself, can't use DB's comfortably to do presses because of shoulder issues, so I use a BB. I also prefer a BB. However, some people (I'd guess most here from previous threads/posts) prefer DB's for the benefit....and some people use DB's because BB's give their shoulder problems.

ATG vs. parallel isn't any different, imho. Some people, like the OP, don't/won't do them because of the "anti-below parallel" camp out there. Others don't do it because it actually does bother their knees. Some don't do it because they can't balance right. Some don't do it because their legs don't allow them to actually sit on their ankles etc...

IMHO, doing all variations of most exercises is a benefit to all, if they can do them. And this would certainly apply to ATG and parallel squats. Everything has a place. I do both. Most recently, I've been doing what I call "deep" squats, which for me is getting down to sitting on my calves, but not my heels....because I can't. When I do these deep squats I get sore in a different area of my glutes and quads than with parallel squats. This tells me that there's a benefit to doing them. But this doesn't mean that they're better just because of this.....just different.

Someone started a thread the other day asking which pressing movement was best (steated, standing MP, behind the head, in front etc...). These threads come up all the time. IMHO, the answer to all these questions when asked in a very general way, is that "They're all good, and they all have their place....so rotate......and do some of each at different routines or different sessions."

[rudai123]

I prefer both

Actually, I like to mix it up. However, I am a little partial to 1/2 squats, b/c that is what I am used to. I do believe that majority of folks who think they are 1/2 are only about 1/4 or so.

[JRT6]

I know other guys have elements of this in their threads already but:

ATG and parallel squats are different. ATG your quad strength is limited to what your hams and posterior can handle whereas parallel the quads play more of a role. And the role is the whole point. Not going to ATG because it's the "right" way to do it but because you want to work the muscles that way. Same with parallel.

[â„¢da1â„¢]

ATG get my hamstrings and glutes involved more

[smdiskin]

Originally Posted by Dave76

That's the right answer. The key words are "proper technique".

When going all the way ATG, many, if not most, people have a tendency to round their lower backs. If that's happening, you are going too deep. You need to keep the proper curvature in your lower spine at all times.

Most people can get below parallel with the proper back position.

Mark Rippetoe comments on ATG squatting

Total agreement.... proper technique....

Some of us are physically not capable of going ATG, and as deep as possible with good technique is the way to go.....
And good technique becomes even more important the deeper you go as the knee is placed into a more and more unstable position... and I think this is why parallel or less is encouraged by many trainers.... (either clients won't use correct technique or PT can't demo/explain it correctly)...
On the other hand in another thread somewhere, someone suggested that parallel was worse of knees than ATG, which is of course rubbish as to go ATG you pass parallel on the way down and the way back up....
I would love to be able to go ATG, but I fall over, even with no weight... so I aim for parallel (ish)...

[JamesBarlow]

I'm with Dave76 on this one.

I squat down as low as I can without breaking my back arch then that's it.

I have found the best way to do this, for me at least, is a custom box that gets me to the exact depth I need. This way I don't have to think about my low back while squatting anymore. I touch the box and then go. It's not a true box squat but it works for me.

[JRT6]

Here is a guy not going ATG or parallel but I still think he's as strong as 10 ton truck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW-bWaY_I9A

[Blacksmith]

Originally Posted by surlycurmudgeon

Should I alternate styles, or just stay with the deep ones?

I stay parallel and add hacks,front,wide/narrow stance and machines to hit everything. Switch it up every 6 week.
A 20 rep routine is also an option.

[Luke Whippo]

Originally Posted by smdiskin

(either clients won't use correct technique or PT can't demo/explain it correctly)...
On the other hand in another thread somewhere, someone suggested that parallel was worse of knees than ATG, which is of course rubbish as to go ATG you pass parallel on the way down and the way back up....
I would love to be able to go ATG, but I fall over, even with no weight... so I aim for parallel (ish)...

everyone will find they have a slight differant tech. for getting very low, and that means to experiment on your own, getting down there and shuffle the feet, ect., alot has to do with foot position and core strength (and I don't mean sit-ups).

I THINK your right about saying parallel is worse for the knees being rubbish -vs- atg, and I THINK this only because if a trainee is doing any squat wrong they will hurt their knees.

I like both, only I prefer parallel (or above) to be started at the bottom position, I feel you get good full-body placement in order to lift.

squats are the hardest thing to learn, if your not positioned right and not strong enough for the weight your handling (many will THINK they are, but really aren't) (were you can just only go sofar down and then you get higher and higher with each rep, your playing with fire) thats why I don't reccomded those cough,cough, parallel squats, and say, yeah they proibally are worse on the knees.

[kimsquit]

Originally Posted by smdiskin

On the other hand in another thread somewhere, someone suggested that parallel was worse of knees than ATG, which is of course rubbish as to go ATG you pass parallel on the way down and the way back up....

I would agree with you except for the fact that the biomechanics of sliding past parallel in a 1/4 second are not the same as coming to a full stop at parallel and then moving upwards again.

In other words, the forces behind a rolling stop at a stopsign are not the same as when you come to a full stop at that same stopsign.

now I'm not saying deep is "better" than parallel, I'm just pointing out an error in your logic.

[LeeZeis]

i know that ATG are more preffered, but they work more of the glute's and ham's. What if one wanted to work quads more, would they do ATG or paralell?

[empresscat]

Originally Posted by kimsquit

I would agree with you except for the fact that the biomechanics of sliding past parallel in a 1/4 second are not the same as coming to a full stop at parallel and then moving upwards again.

In other words, the forces behind a rolling stop at a stopsign are not the same as when you come to a full stop at that same stopsign.

now I'm not saying deep is "better" than parallel, I'm just pointing out an error in your logic.

Exactly - stopping at parallel and then reversing your motion upward puts the greatest amount of stress on the knees. If you go past, then you move beyond this difficult point with momentum, and change the direction of momentum using the glutes and hams.

So if you have bad knees - parallel squats are the worst kind to be doing. Much better off doing full/ATG or quarter squats.

[OneO]

i do just below parallel , anything else i break form .

[FJ and G]

2 things I'd like to point out that have never before been mentioned on this forum:

1. In olympic lifts, the lifters catch the bar and go all the way to the ground and then muscle the weight up in the snatch and the clean and jerk

2. ATG applies not only to squats but to deadlifts as well, sort of. I found that starting the deadlift sitting lower (but not all the way to the ground), I work the hams much more strongly than many or most who start parallel or ass way up in the air. To get lower, you might need to use more smaller plates vice just a few large plates.

[newmexico123]

Originally Posted by JRT6

Here is a guy not going ATG or parallel but I still think he's as strong as 10 ton truck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW-bWaY_I9A

Thats Ronnie Coleman - 2 things about those squats - 1) they are high 2) he is wearing a powerlifter's supersuit

[newmexico123]

Originally Posted by FJ and G

2 things I'd like to point out that have never before been mentioned on this forum:

1. In olympic lifts, the lifters catch the bar and go all the way to the ground and then muscle the weight up in the snatch and the clean and jerk

2. ATG applies not only to squats but to deadlifts as well, sort of. I found that starting the deadlift sitting lower (but not all the way to the ground), I work the hams much more strongly than many or most who start parallel or ass way up in the air. To get lower, you might need to use more smaller plates vice just a few large plates.

In deads you want your ass as low as possible - also you want to start up with your head not your ass.

[mschatz]

Stopping at parallel or above is actually rougher on your knees than a full, atg squat. Stopping at this point creates a braking, shearing motion that transfers the weight load to the knee joint. A full squat transfers the weight load to the larger muscles of the hamstrings and ass. So you get greater overall muscle involvement and less chance of knee injuries.