Better Way to Lose Weight Quick?

[chibahawk72]

Okay my current goal is to cut down body fat by a nice amount.. I need to know the basic method I should get to this goal, I used to lift weights alot more but I took a loong break thanks to a lack of motivation, ****s changed anyway and i need to get back into the game.. Now Ive lost most of my muscle so I know when I lift im gonna be back at square one


Along with a healthy diet should I....

Run cardio 40 minutes a day along with very light lifting until I lose maybe 20 pounds

or is it quicker to lose that weight by lifting hard and dieting very specifically to cutting..I want to lose this weight quick so I can start to lift hard with a clean diet but the main thing is I want to lose weight fast first..

im 18 and 190 pounds..not sure of my body fat

[ferbie]

if you ain't got muscle to lose, try the brutal method:

1. low calories/low carb diet
2. heavy compound lifting
3. hi-rep lifting, still compound!
4. hi intensity long duration cardio

that will definetely get the job done.

[Defiant1]

if you ain't got muscle to lose, try the brutal method:

1. low calories/low carb diet
2. heavy compound lifting
3. hi-rep lifting, still compound!
4. hi intensity long duration cardio

that will definetely get the job done.

Yep, though some studies show you actually lose more bodyfat with a high calorie, EXTREMELY low carb, HIGH fat diet.

I've done it, and it worked. I lost all fat also, hardly any lean mass (did lose water though).

[ferbie]

Def., how high calorie? do you have some link to some study or so? would be very cool!

[Defiant1]

Def., how high calorie? do you have some link to some study or so? would be very cool!

Actually, you don't have to count the calories, just eat a ****load of fatty food. It keeps the metabolism high.

For specifics on the studies, try "low-carbers forum" (I think that's it, I'm at work and don't have the site handy.

The "Anabolic Diet" by Dr. Mauro Dipasquale is a great book for fat loss while building muscle.

[ferbie]

thanks for the info. actually i've been a low carber for about 8 years now, i also know DiPasquale's work etc. just wanted to know how high you went with calories! recently i was pretty pissed of my diet because i gained fat and lost muscle, and i was eating very high calories. then it struck me that even in ketosis i maybe shouldn't stuff myself like a thanksgiving turkey. i think i was at 4000 cals sometimes, weighing 175 lbs.

[Defiant1]

thanks for the info. actually i've been a low carber for about 8 years now, i also know DiPasquale's work etc. just wanted to know how high you went with calories! recently i was pretty pissed of my diet because i gained fat and lost muscle, and i was eating very high calories. then it struck me that even in ketosis i maybe shouldn't stuff myself like a thanksgiving turkey. i think i was at 4000 cals sometimes, weighing 175 lbs.

Were your carbs sneaking up?

I honestly didn't count calories, but made sure I ate LOTS. My "strips" were purple as all get out from this, and the fat rolled off.

DiPasquales ideas are good because of the cycles up and down.

Both my girlfriend and I have found "cheat days" valuble once you've been in Ketosis for awhile.

[ferbie]

no, i definetely kept my carbs low! i must admit i was eating just meat and mayonnaise for a while... ah and one onion a day. really, nothing else, but i guess that was the problem; i got lazy with my diet cause it all worked so well and finally i ended up with a pretty ****ty diet and a cool lack of micronutrients... ah terrible all that omega-6 fats!

i also made an interesting discovery: around xmas, i visited my mom&dad and sure i didn't want to miss her food! so i just said to myself: well, i'll take a break from CKD for some time. so i had 2 weeks of normal, carbohydrate eating. immediately when i was back in berlin i went back on CKD... and i dropped into ketosis very quickly, deep purple after 1 day! so my interpretation was that the whole carbohydrate metabolism is going down on a CKD, and possibly the effectiveness of the carb-up and the speed dropping into ketosis increases if you have 1 or 2 carb weeks from time to time.

[Defiant1]

no, i definetely kept my carbs low! i must admit i was eating just meat and mayonnaise for a while... ah and one onion a day. really, nothing else, but i guess that was the problem; i got lazy with my diet cause it all worked so well and finally i ended up with a pretty ****ty diet and a cool lack of micronutrients... ah terrible all that omega-6 fats!

i also made an interesting discovery: around xmas, i visited my mom&dad and sure i didn't want to miss her food! so i just said to myself: well, i'll take a break from CKD for some time. so i had 2 weeks of normal, carbohydrate eating. immediately when i was back in berlin i went back on CKD... and i dropped into ketosis very quickly, deep purple after 1 day! so my interpretation was that the whole carbohydrate metabolism is going down on a CKD, and possibly the effectiveness of the carb-up and the speed dropping into ketosis increases if you have 1 or 2 carb weeks from time to time.

I agree. It's one of those things that most "low-carbers" that I know notice.

Low carb is THE diet for those with endomorphic tendencies.

I had the same experience you did, it was so easy it makes you lazy and cocky about weight loss!!

I have found that those it doesn't work for are "envelope pusher"-those who eat as many carbs as they can, rather than as FEW as they can.

[ferbie]

when i started low-carbin', i was sure that the low-fat mainstream was in a way right, but my high-fat diet worked DESPITE that, because of some magic, some trick... i also didn't think it was a healthy diet, but that didn't matter. today, i think they brainwashed us about fat. they made us believe it's the devil. really, if you look at a piece of pure fat, it's difficult to have the impression this could be healthy. of course that's the same for a lump of sugar, but somehow they made us associate carbs with nice looking veggies. right now i'm gathering as much information about fat as possible. i believe it's important to really know about it cause it's not just carrying energy like carbs but it is used and even build into body structures just in the form you eat it.

[Defiant1]

when i started low-carbin', i was sure that the low-fat mainstream was in a way right, but my high-fat diet worked DESPITE that, because of some magic, some trick... i also didn't think it was a healthy diet, but that didn't matter. today, i think they brainwashed us about fat. they made us believe it's the devil. really, if you look at a piece of pure fat, it's difficult to have the impression this could be healthy. of course that's the same for a lump of sugar, but somehow they made us associate carbs with nice looking veggies. right now i'm gathering as much information about fat as possible. i believe it's important to really know about it cause it's not just carrying energy like carbs but it is used and even build into body structures just in the form you eat it.

Hence my name: DEFIANT1

True about diet, true about bodybuilding. Half the "scientific" crap is so wrong, it is the opposite of what works LOL.

The sad thing about bodybuilding is, the CORRECT information is so easy to find, and so obvious in the gym, that I don't get the problem.

[ferbie]

The sad thing about bodybuilding is, the CORRECT information is so easy to find, and so obvious in the gym, that I don't get the problem.

i bet you are the type to easily get muscles? in my case, sometimes i make good progress and i'm happy and confident. but sometimes i'm getting really confused and my training is like ****. and i've been doing this for some time... how difficult may it be for someone just starting, who has no idea about training and who doesn't have optimal genetics?

[chibahawk72]

ok lots of response although i think sidetopics spurred up....anyway would this be suffiicient for quick fat loss?

40 minutes of cardio a day
hi rep lifting
low carb diet?

also im gonna need help organizing my diet..i tried CKD in the all peanut butter diet and it worked well for 10 lbs but i crashed kind of started gettin all moody n ****

[ferbie]

ok lots of response although i think sidetopics spurred up....anyway would this be suffiicient for quick fat loss?

40 minutes of cardio a day
hi rep lifting
low carb diet?

also im gonna need help organizing my diet..i tried CKD in the all peanut butter diet and it worked well for 10 lbs but i crashed kind of started gettin all moody n ****

the all peanut butter diet? what's that?

[Defiant1]

i bet you are the type to easily get muscles? in my case, sometimes i make good progress and i'm happy and confident. but sometimes i'm getting really confused and my training is like ****. and i've been doing this for some time... how difficult may it be for someone just starting, who has no idea about training and who doesn't have optimal genetics?

Actually, the opposite.

I weighed 145 when I graduated high school. I am an endomorphic-ectomorph. Both my parents are slim. My body is VERY specific to what exercises I do.

The problem I think is that you combine "teenage know-it-all-ism" with a sport that has scientific aspects, and you get people doing what "should" work as opposed to what works by experience.

People are too quick to dismiss the people with results for armchair training experts.

I did it too.

That's why sometimes I think it would be best if people did NO reading and just trained, following their instinct.

How many people and pros have you heard say "I didn't know what I was doing" yet got great results, but now feel obligated to say they were training wrong. Maybe they grew BECAUSE of what they were doing not DESPITE it.

I know for me, the abbreviated routines and the HIT routines did nothing but frustrate me.

[ferbie]

so what is your training style like? very interesting to me since you also do keto!

[Defiant1]

so what is your training style like? very interesting to me since you also do keto!

Sounds like a kung-fu movie..."hmmmm, what's your style....?"


I've done it all, and would have to say I am an "old school" trainer. About 15-20 sets a bodypart. 1x per week "Lee Priest" style.


Though I try different things from time to time.

[ferbie]

i get best results with reletively high frequency, no failure stuff. i also react pretty good to heavy weights, but i can't do too much of that cause the tendons of my shoulder and chest are a bit delicate. i also do something similar to a conjugated periodization. i love to get pumped and my muscles really get easily pumped. but that kind of training gives me no gains. that's the saddest thing i've found out for myself...

why do you consider yourself endo-ecto?

[Defiant1]

i get best results with reletively high frequency, no failure stuff. i also react pretty good to heavy weights, but i can't do too much of that cause the tendons of my shoulder and chest are a bit delicate. i also do something similar to a conjugated periodization. i love to get pumped and my muscles really get easily pumped. but that kind of training gives me no gains. that's the saddest thing i've found out for myself...

why do you consider yourself endo-ecto?

Because that's what I am. I have the characteristics of both. If untrained, my upper body looks like a lean endomorph, my legs ectomorphic.

Some people who don't understand ****totyping would think that is impossible, but it definately IS possible. ****totypes are "triangular", not "linear" if charted relative to each other.

I also have found that I respond best to hard training, but INTENSITY causes me to overtrain, not volume (within reason). I don't train to failure as a policy, though sometimes as a tool.

[ferbie]

i also consider myself having some endomorphic features. in my case it's the lower body. it's much harder to define than my upper body, but it grows like nothing. i've not squatted to failure for a long long time... i'm a lazy bitch in the squat rack, i just don't need it!

this may sound stupid, anyway: do you sometimes use isolating/higher reps work to define your upper body?

[dre315]

Defiant1 what is "Lee Priest style"?

I also have found that I respond best to hard training, but INTENSITY causes me to overtrain, not volume (within reason). I don't train to failure as a policy, though sometimes as a tool.

Would you be willing to go more in-depth with this?

[Defiant1]

Defiant1 what is "Lee Priest style"?




Would you be willing to go more in-depth with this?

Lee Priest style is "Arnold" style, but with less frequency. Like 15-20 sets per bp 1x per week.

I have found for me, that I overtrain more with 1 or 2 "all out" sets than with 15-20 "hard" sets.

[ferbie]

yeah, same with me. 1 or 2 sets 2 failure and i'm done. but i can easily do some volume if i keep like 30% short of failure. i often do a pile of singles with weights i can easily lift 6 or 8 times.

for me, there are 2 kinds of overtraining: nervous system, thru going to failure, and overstressed tendons, thru heavy weights. with everything else i'm pretty cool.

this is something that annoys me often on this board; someone will yell "overtraining" when he hears some guy does 20 sets or so, but he don't know **** how that guy really trains.

[dre315]

I might give this "Lee Priest style" a go at some point. I tried the beginner workout in Arnolds book as you said it works. Well, I feel like I'm torn apart today after day two. Honestly I couldn't finish it this morning (Shoulders/Arms). It was actually just tiring doing arms right after shoulders. I think it'd be better for me if I split that up and blasted each bodypart on its own day with more sets than going all out. But I'm not exactly sure HOW to NOT go "all out" and just "go hard". Are you saying if I have 8 reps to do in a set that I shouldn't use a weight where I'm having to squeeze out the last few reps?

[Defiant1]

I might give this "Lee Priest style" a go at some point. I tried the beginner workout in Arnolds book as you said it works. Well, I feel like I'm torn apart today after day two. Honestly I couldn't finish it this morning (Shoulders/Arms). It was actually just tiring doing arms right after shoulders. I think it'd be better for me if I split that up and blasted each bodypart on its own day with more sets than going all out. But I'm not exactly sure HOW to NOT go "all out" and just "go hard". Are you saying if I have 8 reps to do in a set that I shouldn't use a weight where I'm having to squeeze out the last few reps?

It's hard to describe because it is so abstract, I go until I feel done. Which is usually about 1 rep short of failure.

One thing about volume routines: you need to get used to the physical work. You need to build up to it. You are simply not in shape enough yet to do it. Keep at it, give it a fair shake, then make a judgement.

[waynelucky]

Hi there,

I not for low carb diets, I read, Nutrient Timing by John Ivy, Robert Portman,
Sports & Exercise Nutrition by William D. McArdle, Frank I. Katch, and Victor L. Katch

Nutrient Timing is an excellent books and provides an excellent scientific outlook on the program and studies to back it up. the other good book to have by your side is Sports & Exercise Nutrition by William D. McArdle, Frank I. Katch, and Victor L. Katch. It’s a college textbook but is an excellent resource that is a must have for any weight trainer. One thing that I’ve learned by reading these books is the allowance for gastric emptying. Allowing the appropriate amount of time for a meal to become available for nutrient absorption can mean the difference between an anabolic and catabolic state.


Once you read there book you will descover why carbs are king.

THE MYTH OF KETONES
There is a little problem with the so called KETONES, it states that when you in ketones, you states you start burning bodyfat stores, this is completely false, Most people consume too much protein during some parts of day, and not at enough during the rest. If we consume too much, it will either be put on as fat, or just not digested very fast. Undigested protein ferments in the intestines, and causes the person to smell like a horse.

Lots of bodybuilders, consume too much protein, and to can turn the tabs.
Your body prefers carbs and fats as energy sources is about equal at rest and at mild exercise, but when your activity increases to maximum carbs are preferred.
HOWEVER, IF YOU STOP EATING CARBS YOU BODY GETS ITS ENERGY FROM FATS, IT DOES NOT START BURNING FAT STORES THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICULES, AND UNTRUE, IT ONLY BURNS FAT STORES IF YOUR ENERGY EXPENDITURE IS MORE THAN YOU TAKE IN BY FOOD.

If we don't have enough protein in our blood, at any time of the day, our muscle cell's achieve a negative nitrogen balance, and start to shrink but don't worry I think most of us eat throughout the day, if your muscles did shrink it would be far to small to notice.

THIS IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED,
I think what as really happened to people that do lose a liitle bodyweight on low carb diets, its been proved many times most is water, and its that were were all eating to many calories before, lots of carbs, fats and protein, well we really know that is the truth, and most properly eating to many to many carb, I say it again to many carbs, and much to many carbs is the way to put on fat ( yes I eat lots of carbs but only the right amount) but really speaking Too many calories overall, of carbs, fats and protein.

What has happened is you have just reduced calories, but mostly in carbs, it could have been fat or protein, because what ever you eat be it, protein, fat or carbs, to many of any of these and ( like one or two of you did not know) they all turn to fat, yes too many of any of these turns to fat.

Therefore, you eat less, more meals, and smaller, drank plenty of water, and stared exercising, no big deal.
There is a far faster and better way, to lose weight.

Energy required to utilize food has been referred to; tax that is added to the total calorie intake for utilizing ingested nutrients. If the diet was exclusively one of
Following foods, the tax would be: carbohydrate-6%, fat 14%, and protein-30%, of the caloric value of that food.

THIS IS MY EXACT DIET 45% CARB, 25% FAT 35% PROTEIN SO LOOKING AT MY TAX FOR FOODS TABLE ABOVE I WILL TAKE FOR CARBS 45% FROM 6 = 2.7 %, FAT 25% FROM 14 = 3.5, protein 35% from 35 = 10.5 add them all up 2.7% + 3.5% +10.5% = 16.7, so take 16.7% from 2000 = 1,666. 334 calories are burned for the digestion of food.


NOW A DIET OF 5% carbs, and 65% fat, 30% protein. a atkins, low car diet,works out like this.

FOR CARBS 5% FROM 6 = 0.3%, FAT 65% FROM 14 = 9.1%, PROTEIN 30% FROM 30 = 9, ADD THEM ALL UP 0.3 % + 9.1% + 9% = 18.4, so take 18.4% from 2000 = 1,632. 368 calories are burned for the digestion of food.

So a Atkins, my high diet, and a very very high carb diet diet burns for the digestion of food, or the tax from food whatever you like t call it,
Atkins, low carb diet, 368 Mine 334, not much in it, 32 here nor there.

WE REALLY NEED TO AVERGE PERSONS DIET NOW.

And did you know that the body can, easily, and it does synthesize fat for carbohydrates , that is a well known scientific fact, yes the only way that bodyfat is burned, is when you eat less than your body needs for daily activity’s

By Mel C Siff, Supertraining Book

The long-term ('aerobic') energy system iniplicates metabolism under oxidative conditions and, and may use either carbohydrates or fats to produce the necessary ATP for energy release in the muscles. Since all food carbohydrate is ultimately converted to glucose, carbohydrate metabolism may be understood in terms of glucose metabolism.
Protein sometimes may also be used as an energy source.

After ingestion, the amino acids from the protein are stripped of their amine groups (NH2) in a process called deamination and converted to pyruvate or other substances (keto acids), which can then enter the Krebs cycle.
The neutral fats (or lipids) which act as an energy source are tdglycerides, which comprise a glycerol molecule to which are attached three fatty acid molecules.

Aprocessknownaslipolysis('lipo-'means'fat';'-lysis'means 'breaking down') breaks down the triglyceride into its constituent fatty acids and glycerol, via the intervention of the enzyme, triglyceride lipase. Thefatty acids then undergo beta oxidation a series of biochemical events which eventually produces acetyl CoA for entry into the Krebs cycle.

After processing via other meodhanisrns, the glycerol molecule may be converted to glucose or fed into the Krebs cycle.
It has been said that 'fats burn in a carbohydrate flame', since the combustion of fats in the body relies on an adequate supply of carbohydrates. When there is a carbohydrate deficiency, fat oxidation is incomplete and the liver converts the acetyl CoA into by-products called ketones, which are released into the blood stream.

If these ketones accumulate faster than they can be used as fuel by the cells and large quantities are secreted in the urine, ketosis occurs. Since ketones generally are strongly acidic, the acidity of the blood increases markedly and metabolic acidosis becomes evident.

The person's breath displays a fruity (or nail varnish) smell as acetone is released from the lungs and breathing accelerates. Untreated serious cases of metabolic acidosis can lead to coma and death.


Cut and pasted from Medline Plus

Alternative names
Acidosis - metabolic
Definition
Metabolic acidosis is a disturbance of the body acid-base balance in which there is excessive acidity of the blood. Metabolic acidosis can occur as a result of many different conditions, such as kidney failure, poisoning, diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), and shock.

Many of these conditions are life-threatening. If severe, metabolic acidosis may lead to shock or death. In some situations, metabolic acidosis can be a mild, chronic condition.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors
Many different diseases and medical conditions can lead to metabolic acidosis. For example, diabetes mellitus type 1 (juvenile diabetes), when out of control, leads to diabetic ketoacidosis.

Kidney failure is another important cause of metabolic acidosis. Ingestion of toxic substances, such as antifreeze or excessive amounts of aspirin, can also lead to metabolic acidosis. Shock (extremely low blood pressure) can also cause this condition.

Symptoms
Most symptoms are caused by the disease or condition that is causing the metabolic acidosis. Metabolic acidosis itself usually causes rapid breathing. Confusion or lethargy may also occur.

Ketones
Alternative names
Acetone bodies; Ketones - serum; Nitroprusside test; Ketone bodies - serum

Definition
This test measures the amount of ketones in the blood. Any amount of detectable ketones is considered abnormal.

What abnormal results mean
A test result is "positive" if ketones are found in the blood. This may indicate:
alcoholic ketoacidosis
starvation
uncontrolled blood glucose in diabetics
What the risks are
The only risks are those associated with the venipuncture.
Special considerations


Thank you Wayne

[ferbie]

Energy required to utilize food has been referred to; tax that is added to the total calorie intake for utilizing ingested nutrients. If the diet was exclusively one of
Following foods, the tax would be: carbohydrate-6%, fat 14%, and protein-30%, of the caloric value of that food.

THIS IS MY EXACT DIET 45% CARB, 25% FAT 35% PROTEIN SO LOOKING AT MY TAX FOR FOODS TABLE ABOVE I WILL TAKE FOR CARBS 45% FROM 6 = 2.7 %, FAT 25% FROM 14 = 3.5, protein 35% from 35 = 10.5 add them all up 2.7% + 3.5% +10.5% = 16.7, so take 16.7% from 2000 = 1,666. 334 calories are burned for the digestion of food.


NOW A DIET OF 5% carbs, and 65% fat, 30% protein. a atkins, low car diet,works out like this.

FOR CARBS 5% FROM 6 = 0.3%, FAT 65% FROM 14 = 9.1%, PROTEIN 30% FROM 30 = 9, ADD THEM ALL UP 0.3 % + 9.1% + 9% = 18.4, so take 18.4% from 2000 = 1,632. 368 calories are burned for the digestion of food.

So a Atkins, my high diet, and a very very high carb diet diet burns for the digestion of food, or the tax from food whatever you like t call it,
Atkins, low carb diet, 368 Mine 334, not much in it, 32 here nor there.

did you break out of some madhouse??? LOL

[Defiant1]

did you break out of some madhouse??? LOL

Wayne is stuck on "Nautilus island".

His heart is in the right place, but his brain, alas, has been abducted by Arthur Jones.

[waynelucky]

Hi there,

Defiant, I do not want to debate with you again, I would rather have you as a friend, if you are not short of money buy the two books, these books have 1000's of real studies to back them up. Then come back and debate, have you and nutrition books for me to read,

This my friend has nothing to do with HIT, well HIT states a high carb diet, but if you have not read these books you should its how the human body works, and you cannot change the laws of physics’. All I state is fact

Sports & Exercise Nutrition by William D. McArdle, Frank I. Katch, and Victor L. Katch. It is a college textbook but is an excellent resource that is necessary have for any sports person.

ferbie, my maths were correct, were they not ???

WHAT PART DID YOU THINK WAS WRONG WITH MY POST

Thank you Wayne

[ferbie]

Hi there,

Defiant, I do not want to debate with you again, I would rather have you as a friend, if you are not short of money buy the two books, these books have 1000's of real studies to back them up. Then come back and debate, have you and nutrition books for me to read,

This my friend has nothing to do with HIT, well HIT states a high carb diet, but if you have not read these books you should its how the human body works, and you cannot change the laws of physics’. All I state is fact

Sports & Exercise Nutrition by William D. McArdle, Frank I. Katch, and Victor L. Katch. It is a college textbook but is an excellent resource that is necessary have for any sports person.

ferbie, my maths were correct, were they not ???

WHAT PART DID YOU THINK WAS WRONG WITH MY POST

Thank you Wayne

wayne, don't be angry with me, i actually really like you, but you also make me laugh real hard at times, for real!

it's just that these figures and formulas don't make any, i repeat, any sense to me! i just don't understand it, it sounds weeeeeeiiiiiird...