Are squats supposed to get really really hard?

[PurdueChemE]

I've been on rippetoes for a while - squats were easy at 85, but today I hit 125 and they were mind blowingly difficult.. to the point where my head felt it would bust a vain lol!

Are they supposed to become this hard as you progress? The only reason I can think of that they are hard is b/c I am cutting, but my diet seems fine as it's 40/40/20 p/c/f, 2000 cals.

Just curious though, thanks.

EDIT: I know this seems like a dumb question - I know it's supposed to get harder, but seeing as I'm supposed to get newbie gains, am I supposed to have this much difficulty? It feels like every time I increase weight I am going to stall...

[mjw8204]

Are they supposed to become this hard as you progress?

No. It is completely illogical to suggest that squatting would become more difficult as the weight gets heavier. You might want to see a doctor.

[dj_tiesto]

i don't know man, sounds weird.
usually the more weight is on the bar the easier it is to squat.

[PurdueChemE]

I'm saying, is it supposed to get to the point where you feel like you are stalling on every weight increase?

[Kiknskreem]

5'8 150 squatting 125... what are you cutting?

[mjw8204]

I'm saying, is it supposed to get to the point where you feel like you are stalling on every weight increase?

[klen]

How many reps are you doing per set?

[PurdueChemE]

I have skinny fat.. I'm getting to 10% bf before I bulk. I've discussed the idea to death, please gimme an answer on topic

EDIT: 5 reps per set, 3 sets. I'm following rippetoes exactly.

I honestly don't know how I am managing to squat the weight.. I mean I do ATG squats, I make sure I go ALL the way down to the point that I have no momentum coming up.. do you guys think that's why?

[Pushkin]

I lol'd hard at the first 2 responses.

Squats ARE supposed to be very difficult. Every rep should FEEL like it is your last rep. As long as you're doing it with proper form and hitting those 15 reps, you're doing fine. Make sure your squatting to at least parallel and that your hips do not rise up before your head does. If you feel like you're "progressing" faster than you can keep up with it, then slow down and add 5 lbs every workout instead of 10. Plus, you're not eating enough. What did you expect?

How do you expect to gain muscle if you're eating like a bird?

[PurdueChemE]

^^No **** dj.. that's why I edited my first post..

EDIT: pushkin, I am squatting past parallel.. I squat until I can go down no further - is it bad to have no momentum coming up? By the way, I am doing as you said, adding 5 lbs every workout. I figured since I am getting 200g protein / 200g carbs / 40g fats, and eating 2000 calories daily, with a great prewo meal, that I can expect to increase my weights.. am I wrong?

[Xscorpio]

its a normal thing dude, as Pushkin sugested slow down and go up by 5lbs.

[PurdueChemE]

^^I understand, thanks. and I have been going up by 5 lbs this whole time by the way, does it help to keep some momentum going up? it seems difficult to do ATG and keep momentum.. or is that the point of ATG?

[Xscorpio]

or you can also, stay at the weight that you are comfertable doing, and do some heavy leg presses, and then go back to squates should be able to do more.

thats what i did to be honest, i couldnt able to do more then 180 at first and then i start strengthning my legs, by doing presses and i was doing suqates every other week, and after a month i was able to do more weight on squat.

[Xscorpio]

but then agian it depends on body to body.

[Charlie Brown]

youre cutting, that type of progression while cutting is difficult

instead of eating excess cals to gain weight, and muscle very fast youre starving your body to lose fat and some muscle

Yet you still expect to gain strength at a rapid pace

Dont expect to gain that much that fast strengthwise while cutting..most of the time you lose strength while cutting regardless of your diet and prewo meal, your body is in a fasted state, you cant get that much stronger.

[Mowgli]

Dude, eat more, and I promise that the movement will become easier. Over the next few weeks, gradually increase your calorie intake by a few hundred cals. Skinny-fat will become muscular-fat, and then you can think about cutting.

As for the momentum question, you have to be able to generate the force to raise yourself in a controlled manner without "bouncing" at the bottom of the movement. You might consider going down 10-20 lbs. as you increase your cals and work your way back up to 125. I bet that with more of a bulk diet, you would blow past that weight.

If it's a question of A2G that's bothering you, then you might want to stop a little bit below parallel. If I remember correctly, Rippetoe advocates stopping under parallel but not going all the way down. I like to try and go A2G because I feel that it does a great job on my hammies. But this seems to be a matter of personal preference, so think about what works best for you.

Good luck!

[PurdueChemE]

I see.. on one of my reps today I tried not going all the way down, and it seemed SO much easier.. I guess I will try parallel then.

[Mowgli]

You might want to try for a little under parallel. In my experience, I have always tended to overestimate how low I'm stopping unless I'm going A2G.

[r_graz]

If it's a question of A2G that's bothering you, then you might want to stop a little bit below parallel. If I remember correctly, Rippetoe advocates stopping under parallel but not going all the way down.

What I think Rippetoe has said on the subject of A2G is that depth depends a lot on the person. Body type, flexibility of the glutes and hamstrings, and type of stance will play a large role in how deep a person can safely squat. As I recall, Rip advocates squatting no deeper than you can while maintaining a hard arch in your back. For some people that might be truly ATG, for others not so deep. For most people it will be at least a little below parallel. Essentially, if going really deep means your lose your arch and your butt starts to tuck under, you shouldn't go that deep until you get flexible enough to allow it. The risk to your lower back negates any benefits of going that low.

On the subject of bounce, stopping completely at the bottom and eliminating the stretch reflex is more of a "paused" squat, which is a useful exercise but won't generally let you move as much weight. For Rippetoe squats, you don't need to be stopping down there in the hole - don't bounce, but you can use the stretch reflex in the posterior chain to help you reverse and explode out of the bottom.

EDIT: Apologies for continuing this discussion here, as the whole thing should have been in the Starting Strength Q&A thread to begin with.

[liftingbuddy1]

I've been on rippetoes for a while - squats were easy at 85, but today I hit 125 and they were mind blowingly difficult.. to the point where my head felt it would bust a vain lol!

Are they supposed to become this hard as you progress? The only reason I can think of that they are hard is b/c I am cutting, but my diet seems fine as it's 40/40/20 p/c/f, 2000 cals.

Just curious though, thanks.

EDIT: I know this seems like a dumb question - I know it's supposed to get harder, but seeing as I'm supposed to get newbie gains, am I supposed to have this much difficulty? It feels like every time I increase weight I am going to stall...

Yeah man, just like some of the others said, go on a bulk. We're pretty close on stats, I'm 5'9" and 156 lbs @ 14% bodyfat. Before I started Rippetoes I was 148@11.9%. I realized that the body fat % really shouldn't bother me so much b/c once I'm able to move heavy weight and have some mass on me, it will make my cut even better. For me, 2500 cals. is a bulk. When I was cutting, I didn't have enough energy or strength to move the slightly heavier weights. If you're on a bulk, you might see different. Good Luck!

Mike

[HATETANK]

I see.. on one of my reps today I tried not going all the way down, and it seemed SO much easier.. I guess I will try parallel then.

Nooooo! Don't sacrifice quality squats just so you can put more weight on the bar. Yes, squats are supposed to be rediculously difficult. After a good set I feel like puking, but thats the beauty of em!

Work hard, go ATG and eat large. I dont think you should be cutting right now, fat comes off better when you have more muscle.

Eat big or go home.

[MISSINGLINK]

I've been on rippetoes for a while - squats were easy at 85, but today I hit 125 and they were mind blowingly difficult.. to the point where my head felt it would bust a vain lol!

Are they supposed to become this hard as you progress? The only reason I can think of that they are hard is b/c I am cutting, but my diet seems fine as it's 40/40/20 p/c/f, 2000 cals.

Just curious though, thanks.

EDIT: I know this seems like a dumb question - I know it's supposed to get harder, but seeing as I'm supposed to get newbie gains, am I supposed to have this much difficulty? It feels like every time I increase weight I am going to stall...

You are cutting at 150? Odd

[r_graz]

FWIW, here's a direct quote from Mark Rippetoe on the subject of "ATG":


Squat depth is critically important, but so is correct form. ATG-level depth most usually requires that the lumbar muscles relax the lordosis and that the hamstrings relax before extreme depth can be reached. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me that anything be relaxed in a deep squat, since doing this kills your good controlled rebound out of the bottom and risks your intervertebral discs. Those rare individuals that can obtain ass-to-ankles depth without relaxing anything might be able to get away with it, but as a general rule you should squat as deep as you can with a hard-arched lower back and tight hamstings and adductors. This depth will be below parallel, but it will not usually be "ATG".

The 2 parts that stand out to me in relation to the original question are 'your good controlled rebound out of the bottom ', and 'as a general rule you should squat as deep as you can with a hard-arched lower back and tight hamstings and adductors. This depth will be below parallel, but it will not usually be "ATG"'

Personally, I'll put some stock in what Mr. Rippetoe has to say on the subject.

[Dave76]

FWIW, here's a direct quote from Mark Rippetoe on the subject of "ATG"...

I am so glad that Strength Mill gave me a chance to ask that question and get a direct response from Mark!!! I've been saying that for months and no one would believe me.

[mjw8204]

I am so glad that Strength Mill gave me a chance to ask that question and get a direct response from Mark!!! I've been saying that for months and no one would believe me.

Well at least nobody will be able to put words in his mouth anymore. Bunch of queers...

[r_graz]

Well at least nobody will be able to put words in his mouth anymore. Bunch of queers...

Not even sure why I bothered posting it here. I'm thinking it will mostly fall on deaf ears

[Bodysteele]

Nooooo! Don't sacrifice quality squats just so you can put more weight on the bar. Yes, squats are supposed to be rediculously difficult. After a good set I feel like puking, but thats the beauty of em!

Work hard, go ATG and eat large. I dont think you should be cutting right now, fat comes off better when you have more muscle.

Eat big or go home.

Hey exactly what i was thinking...repped!!!

Im over 300lbs (going down btw) and am only repping out like 200 lbs now ATG after 12 weeks of no weight squatting(yeah I was 365 and in BAD shape) and 8 weeks now of barbell back squats...

DO NOT SACRIFICE YOUR TECHNIQUE ON SQUATS SO YOU CAN PUT A PHONY NUMBER ON THE BOARD....DO NOT DO IT...IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WANT TO DO IT SLAP YOURSELF AND PROCEED NOT TO DO IT.

When I first started back working out I knew rule #1 had to be to take things slow and completely get rid of the ego part of lifting. Its working pretty damn good...I have lost ~48 lbs, gotten stronger, have a 61 BPM pulse now(@ 320!) can touch my heel to my nose, and am benching 255lbs for easy reps.......this is all in 7 months of training WITH a month long vacation I took where my training was less than perfect.

If you can squat 120lbs ATG with perfect form great...you can do something many in my gym has yet to show me they can do...

If 5 lb increments are too high BUY SOME microweights and use 1.25lb plates on each side....if that doesnt work shift to another program or deload.

Honestly if you are 150lbs and cutting something is fundamentally wrong...YOU NEED TO CLEAN BULK. Without proper nutrition how do you expect to progress on something as physiologically demanding as a squat....

Sit back take a week off study this site, and reasses what your goals are and how you wanna go about obtaining them bc you are really kind of on the wrong track with some of your ideas...(no flaiming just a reality check).

[Bodysteele]

FWIW, here's a direct quote from Mark Rippetoe on the subject of "ATG":


Squat depth is critically important, but so is correct form. ATG-level depth most usually requires that the lumbar muscles relax the lordosis and that the hamstrings relax before extreme depth can be reached. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me that anything be relaxed in a deep squat, since doing this kills your good controlled rebound out of the bottom and risks your intervertebral discs. Those rare individuals that can obtain ass-to-ankles depth without relaxing anything might be able to get away with it, but as a general rule you should squat as deep as you can with a hard-arched lower back and tight hamstings and adductors. This depth will be below parallel, but it will not usually be "ATG".

The 2 parts that stand out to me in relation to the original question are 'your good controlled rebound out of the bottom ', and 'as a general rule you should squat as deep as you can with a hard-arched lower back and tight hamstings and adductors. This depth will be below parallel, but it will not usually be "ATG"'

Personally, I'll put some stock in what Mr. Rippetoe has to say on the subject.

Of course no one means LITERALLY ASS TO GRASS or even ass to ankles...my hammie/ass hit my upper calfs before that could/would happen....I have yet to see a vid on here that displays a squat in which the subjects ass hit the floor.

Thats why I usually term it ATG or hammies to calfs. I thought it was geenralyl understood that ATG meant a FULL ROM...

[Dave76]

Of course no one means LITERALLY ASS TO GRASS....I have yet to see a vid on here that displays a squat in which the subjects ass hit the floor.

Thats why I usually term it ATG or hammies to calfs. I thought it was geenralyl understood that ATG meant a FULL ROM...

We know that. Did you read what Rippetoe wrote? He defined "ATG" as "ass to ankles" depth. It could also be defined as "hammies to calf". However you want to word it, it's too deep if your lower back rounds. About 99% of the population has to round the lower back to get that deep.

[Bodysteele]

We know that. Did you read what Rippetoe wrote? He defined "ATG" as "ass to ankles" depth. It could also be defined as "hammies to calf". However you want to word it, it's too deep if your lower back rounds. About 99% of the population has to round the lower back to get that deep.

I guess I have big calves and big hammies(im a big guys so...) bc those two things DO NOT mean the same thing for me. I mean in a perfect biomechanical world they might where knees dont move forward at all but in my real world...my hammies and calfs hit and I cannot get my ankles remotely close to hitting anything.