Fish Oil and Vitamin E?

[BCHAV07]

I was talking to a guy at the gym and he was saying fish oil oxidizes when it hits the bloodstream if its not combined with vitamin e. My fish oil has vitamin e listed in the ingredients but is not listed on the nutrient facts. If this is true how much E is needed?

[TheUrbanLegend]

i would say this is not true. You can take it alone

[Sockomalo]

i would say this is not true. You can take it alone

it is true, and you should aim to get 400iu of vitamin E for every 10g of fish oil

Fish oil and vitamin E go together
BELTSVILLE, MARYLAND. Fish oils are beneficial in the prevention of cancer and cardiovascular disease. They do, however, oxidize very easily and therefore add to the oxidant stress on the body. An experiment was recently carried out by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to see if an increased intake of vitamin E could counteract this detrimental effect of fish oils. Forty men aged 32 to 44 were involved. The men consumed a controlled diet for a total of 28 weeks. For the first 10 weeks they received placebo oil capsules (15 g/day), for the next 10 weeks they received fish oil capsules (15 g/day), and for the last 8 weeks they received the fish oil plus 200 mg of vitamin E (all-rac-alpha-tocopherol). The urinary excretion of peroxidation products (malondialdehyde) more than doubled when the fish oil capsules were introduced but then dropped by a factor of four when vitamin E was added. The vitamin E concentration in the red blood cells dropped very significantly when fish oil was ingested but more than recovered with the vitamin E supplement. It is concluded that the negative effects of fish oil consumption can be overcome by taking them together with vitamin E.
Nair, Padmanabhan P., et al. Dietary fish oil-induced changes in the distribution of alpha-tocopherol, retinol, and beta-carotene in plasma, red blood cells, and platelets: modulation by vitamin E. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 58, July 1993, pp. 98-102

http://www.oilofpisces.com/vitamine.html: bottom of page.

[NO HYPE]

I was talking to a guy at the gym and he was saying fish oil oxidizes when it hits the bloodstream if its not combined with vitamin e.

Not true.

[NO HYPE]

it is true, and you should aim to get 400iu of vitamin E for every 10g of fish oil

Fish oil and vitamin E go together
BELTSVILLE, MARYLAND. Fish oils are beneficial in the prevention of cancer and cardiovascular disease. They do, however, oxidize very easily and therefore add to the oxidant stress on the body. An experiment was recently carried out by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to see if an increased intake of vitamin E could counteract this detrimental effect of fish oils. Forty men aged 32 to 44 were involved. The men consumed a controlled diet for a total of 28 weeks. For the first 10 weeks they received placebo oil capsules (15 g/day), for the next 10 weeks they received fish oil capsules (15 g/day), and for the last 8 weeks they received the fish oil plus 200 mg of vitamin E (all-rac-alpha-tocopherol). The urinary excretion of peroxidation products (malondialdehyde) more than doubled when the fish oil capsules were introduced but then dropped by a factor of four when vitamin E was added. The vitamin E concentration in the red blood cells dropped very significantly when fish oil was ingested but more than recovered with the vitamin E supplement. It is concluded that the negative effects of fish oil consumption can be overcome by taking them together with vitamin E.

In terms of fish oil and vitamin E.... the above study only demonstrates that supraphysiological doses of fish oil (15 grams a day), resulted in the attenuation of plasma tocopherol concentrations.

[Sockomalo]

15g a day is the dose alot of people are getting

[NO HYPE]

15g a day is the dose alot of people are getting

.... and that is just silly.

[cakedonkey]

15g a day is the dose alot of people are getting

Anyone "in the know" would not take any more than even 4-6 g/day.

[deapee]

I was under the impression that Vitamin E was added to some fish oil to help preserve the fish oil while it sat on the shelf...so it didn't go bad in the capsule. Am I wrong?

--

edit:

"...vitamin E protects fish oils from going rancid so it is a good idea to take a combination of the two..."

Source: Dietary supplementation with n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids and vitamin E after myocardial infarction: results of the GISSI-Prevenzione trial. The Lancet, Vol. 354, August 7, 1999, pp. 447-55
Brown, Morris. Do vitamin E and fish oil protect against ischaemic heart disease? The Lancet, Vol. 354, August 7, 1999, pp. 441-42

[Sockomalo]

Anyone "in the know" would not take any more than even 4-6 g/day.

i only take 10g a day myself, because i have read that the amount of epa/dha you should get in a day is 3 grams, and thats just how it works with my caps. but a liquid fish oil supplement is gonna have ~14 grams in just 1 tablespoon

[NO HYPE]

i only take 10g a day myself,

Only?

[Sockomalo]

Only?

comparing myself to the study

[NO HYPE]

Anyone administering fish oil at 15 grams a day.... should not be surprised when negative reactions occur as a result (and vitamin E concentrations should be the LEAST of your concerns).

[Sockomalo]

Anyone administering fish oil at 15 grams a day.... should not be surprised when negative reactions occur as a result (and vitamin E concentrations should be the LEAST of your concerns).

yea but everyone is different, and many different sizes. at what point do the problems start? when should vitamin E be added? would it not be beneficial to just take the vitamin E anyways? could it be detrimental? i would just like to get some more information out of this... alot of the fish oil i look at already comes with Vitamin E in it...

[NO HYPE]

yea but everyone is different, and many different sizes. at what point do the problems start?

So out of the 10 gram dose that you take.... did you know that only 2 grams of DHA a day have been shown to induce a maximal DHA plasma response?

DHA (along with AA) is the most vulnerable target for free radical-catalyzed lipid peroxidation.

Docosanoids/neuroprostanes, are oxidation products of DHA. The compounds 4-hydroxy-2-hexenal/neuroketals, remain esterified to phospholipids, significantly inhibit proteasome, and are highly cytotoxic. This oxidative damage can lead to docosanoid-induced neurodegeneration, and is associated with neurodegenerative disease.

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content...166/5/1283#B64

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstr...e2=tf_ipsecsha

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/166/5/1283

So aside from having the ability to inhibit maximal skeletal muscle gains and lessen contractile force, excessive DHA (from excessive doses of fish oil) poses a risk for neurodegeneration.

At what point? We will not know unless studies adress this particular issue in humans.... but neurodegeneration induced by excessive doses of fish oil is not on the top of the list for human studies.

[Sockomalo]

So out of the 10 gram dose that you take.... did you know that only 2 grams of DHA a day have been shown to induce a maximal DHA plasma response?

well considering each pill has 120mg of DHA i would need 16grams of fish oil to take in 2grams of DHA.... what exactly was your point there? im not getting 10 grams of DHA, im getting 10grams of fish oil, which altogether has just over 3 grams of EPA + DHA combined




perhaps you should call up charles poliquin (worlds most successfull strength coach) and teach him a thing or 2, because he recommends sometimes 30-45g a day to some of his clients.

[NO HYPE]

perhaps you should call up charles poliquin (worlds most successfull strength coach) and teach him a thing or 2, because he recommends sometimes 30-45g a day to some of his clients.

Perhaps Poliquin should drop in to bb.com in an effort to defend his absurd recommendation of 30-45 grams of fish oil per day.

Poliquin simply cannot deny the neurodegenerative properties of excessive DHA.

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content...166/5/1283#B64

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstr...e2=tf_ipsecsha

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/166/5/1283

[Sockomalo]

Perhaps Poliquin should drop in to bb.com in an effort to defend his absurd recommendation of 30-45 grams of fish oil per day.

Poliquin simply cannot deny the neurodegenerative properties of excessive DHA.

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content...166/5/1283#B64

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstr...e2=tf_ipsecsha

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/166/5/1283

you seemed to have forgotten to address the first part of my post.

[Elliptical Envy]

5 star thread since NO HYPE used the thumbs down icon.

[NO HYPE]

So out of the 10 gram dose that you take.... did you know that only 2 grams of DHA a day have been shown to induce a maximal DHA plasma response?

well considering each pill has 120mg of DHA i would need 16grams of fish oil to take in 2grams of DHA.... what exactly was your point there?

I was not implying that you were taking close to 2 grams of DHA.

I was merely demonstrating that your current dosage is not that far from from the maximum DHA threshold.

[NO HYPE]

you seemed to have forgotten to address the first part of my post.

No.... I did not.

[Elliptical Envy]

This is a great article by Alan Aragon in regards to fish oil.

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=319

[NO HYPE]

5 star thread since NO HYPE used the thumbs down icon.

Thumbs are great.... but I want profanity.

[NO HYPE]

This is a great article by Alan Aragon in regards to fish oil.

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=319

Thanks envy, that is a great link.... So who's this Alan Aragon character?

[Sockomalo]

No.... I did not.

oh sorry youre one of those people who responds to the second half of a post first, and then responds to the first half 5 minutes later just messin with ya

[NO HYPE]

oh sorry youre one of those people who responds to the second half of a post first, and then responds to the first half 5 minutes later just messin with ya

It's all good.... I just jumped for the Poliquin statement (like I always do).

[Elliptical Envy]

30-45 grams of fish oil a day is pure insanity.

[MegaPump]

Anyone "in the know" would not take any more than even 4-6 g/day.

CAKE DONKEY, I asked you a question in the tribulis thread, answer it!