eating disorders, denial, and ridiculousness

[pecan]

i only recently started posting on this board, and i can honestly say i am shocked by what i have discovered: such an incredibly large amount of posters here have extremely serious eating disorders and yet maintain a state of denial.

as a former dancer, i know all about eating disorders. i've been there before (find me a ballerina who hasn't), and i know the classifications (orthorexia, anorexia, bulimia, binge-eating disorder)---but forget all that, it can be broken down into one single symptom:

if food is interfering with your life, then you have an eating disorder.

if you can't go out on a date because you fear the food in restaurants, you have an eating disorder. if you can't hang out with friends because you're afraid they will offer you a bite of their candybar, you have an eating disorder. if you stay inside and lift because you feel that you need to burn more fat before you appear in public, you have an eating disorder. if you need to rush home after being out to exercise/throw up, you have an eating disorder. if you don't have time to talk to friends on the phone because you're too busy breaking down the macros of your meals, you have an eating disorder.

listen, it's this simple: if food has priority over your social life, you have an eating disorder.

and it's not worth it, for god's sake. food/exercise can be a wonderful thing. you ought to be familiar with hippocrates quote, "let food be your medicine." food can be a medicine that can be enjoyed; however, it is not meant to be obsessed over.

otoh, life is also meant to be enjoyed. life is so incredibly short, and the things we do here are only reflected by the impact we make in the lives of others.

personally, i joined this forum because i love the rush from exercise, and i was sick of being surrounded by starving girls. i also love the feeling of good health that i achieve through eating properly balanced meals. hence my interest in nutrition: i want others to feel the same health i have been fortunate enough to experience.

i thought i might find some health-oriented people here who also share my love for working out..but at the moment, i'm simply shocked by how ridiculous it is to come here and discover that so many of you are no different than those frail ballerinas i spent years surrounded by. it saddens me greatly.

i don't want to offend anyone, but i can't stay quiet any longer.

please, please, please...if i have described you, get the help you need. life is a vapor; don't waste yours.

[I3uilt]

You do realize your in a bodybuilding forum right? this isnt ballerina tinkerbell ooo i just had a piece of popcorn im so full forum. Bodybuilders eat for one reason, to grow. In bodybuilding food has these priorities in this order

nutrition
cost
taste

When you accept a bodybuilding lifestyle you are making a commitment to yourself. Now im not saying that i personally do not go out and party/live it up with my friends but i save that for the weekends. Yes there are some people on here that are not bodybuilders and are taking things to extremes and may be making the REAL members of this forum look bad. I am very proud of my body and at 5'11" 195lbs 10%BF I would hardly call myself "frail".

I dont mean to sound like an ass but you have to understand that you arent in a dieting forum, your in a bodybuilding forum

[pecan]

yes, i DO realize that...hence my shock at how many people are using "i'm cutting" as an excuse to maintain an eating disorder.

by the way, i am certainly not referring to everyone here...i have already noticed that some of you ARE true bodybuilders and have your nutrition knowledge down...to which i commend you.

[Schlot16]

Originally Posted by I3uilt

You do realize your in a bodybuilding forum right? this isnt ballerina tinkerbell ooo i just had a piece of popcorn im so full forum. Bodybuilders eat for one reason, to grow. In bodybuilding food has these priorities in this order

nutrition
cost
taste

When you accept a bodybuilding lifestyle you are making a commitment to yourself. Now im not saying that i personally do not go out and party/live it up with my friends but i save that for the weekends. Yes there are some people on here that are not bodybuilders and are taking things to extremes and may be making the REAL members of this forum look bad. I am very proud of my body and at 5'11" 195lbs 10%BF I would hardly call myself "frail".

I dont mean to sound like an ass but you have to understand that you arent in a dieting forum, your in a bodybuilding forum

She obviously wasn't describing you in this post, but I have to agree with what she had to say there.. I've seen a lot of things on here that look rather sketchy when it comes to eating problems.. most of us are in awesome health, yet some are still worried if they eat a forbidden 'cheat' meal.

[princessk64]

I think we are "health-oriented here" And if some of us have issues with food it is not because we ALL have ED's but because in BBing diet is usaully 80% of the equation. That being said we are here to get that 80% in check and strive at something that is very important to us. Would you believe all those on the Training forum are exercise bulimic? They ask a multitude of questions, that is all they discuss because it is a FORUM for that.


I believe that the ED forum is a fantastic resource for those suffering or in recovery to get help but the Nutrition forum is something totally unique. If there is a crossover it is because hopefully they are trying to change and learn the correct way to nourish themselves. Let them have that freedom without feeling they cannot ask questions from those with experiance.

Believe me I know, I too have been there with ED. But the Nutrition forum has helped me and I just competed in figure, something I never would have thought possible. I received a lot of fantastic advice here especially about fats in the diet. I was deathly afraid of fats until I learned here that I NEED them and must have them to achieve my goals.

So go a little easier on this forum, I know sometimes it can be silly but honestly there is a lot of really helpful good info to be found.

And PS-I am no frail ballerina nor did I ever want to be

[Mickdizzle]

Originally Posted by pecan

i only recently started posting on this board, and i can honestly say i am shocked by what i have discovered: such an incredibly large amount of posters here have extremely serious eating disorders and yet maintain a state of denial.

as a former dancer, i know all about eating disorders. i've been there before (find me a ballerina who hasn't), and i know the classifications (orthorexia, anorexia, bulimia, binge-eating disorder)---but forget all that, it can be broken down into one single symptom:

if food is interfering with your life, then you have an eating disorder.

if you can't go out on a date because you fear the food in restaurants, you have an eating disorder. if you can't hang out with friends because you're afraid they will offer you a bite of their candybar, you have an eating disorder. if you stay inside and lift because you feel that you need to burn more fat before you appear in public, you have an eating disorder. if you need to rush home after being out to exercise/throw up, you have an eating disorder. if you don't have time to talk to friends on the phone because you're too busy breaking down the macros of your meals, you have an eating disorder.

listen, it's this simple: if food has priority over your social life, you have an eating disorder.

and it's not worth it, for god's sake. food/exercise can be a wonderful thing. you ought to be familiar with hippocrates quote, "let food be your medicine." food can be a medicine that can be enjoyed; however, it is not meant to be obsessed over.

otoh, life is also meant to be enjoyed. life is so incredibly short, and the things we do here are only reflected by the impact we make in the lives of others.

personally, i joined this forum because i love the rush from exercise, and i was sick of being surrounded by starving girls. i also love the feeling of good health that i achieve through eating properly balanced meals. hence my interest in nutrition: i want others to feel the same health i have been fortunate enough to experience.

i thought i might find some health-oriented people here who also share my love for working out..but at the moment, i'm simply shocked by how ridiculous it is to come here and discover that so many of you are no different than those frail ballerinas i spent years surrounded by. it saddens me greatly.

i don't want to offend anyone, but i can't stay quiet any longer.

please, please, please...if i have described you, get the help you need. life is a vapor; don't waste yours.

I do agree with you in most aspects that you describe....HOWEVER, like I3 stated this is a bodybuilding forum and there are some aspects of your life where food does take precidence to some other things. Me for example, I have given up drinking beer, all of my buddies drink and there have been times where I say "Sorry guys I cant go out tonight" I do spend a lot of time preparing my food for the week and I do spend a lot of time eating food. I have to take in 4000 calories to gain weight due to my lifestyle/metabolism. So I do spend a lot of time thinking about food and making sure that I am getting what I need to grow. I don't let it control my life though, if my family/friends want to go out to dinner or have a BBQ I go and I enjoy myself.

But, like you stated there are a lot of people on here that really don't realize that they have an eating disorder. I see a lot of younger guys (around my age) that are 6'0 135-145 lbs that fear eating anything "unclean" or they fear if they bulk to fast they are going to gain too much fat. SO a lot of these guys end up restricting their calories too much and never gain any weight/muscle. What it boils down to is you need to eat and you need to eat big to grow. Especially if you are one of these guys that I am talking about. I know because I myself am a tall skinny guy,(that is about to change). And I especially agree with these people that post OMG.. I just cheated whats going to happen to me. NOTHING is going to happen to you, you go back to your good eating habits after that and you will be fine. You gotta live a little. This is just my .02 about what I have seen on these forums and I do agree some of this nonsense needs to stop. Thanks for the post though and repped!

[skinnyboipgh]

Having a disciplined approach 2 nutrition is the key 2 success in the sport/lifestyle of bodybuilding. In fact any successful bodybuilder will tell u that nutrition is 80% of the battle.

Having a disciplined approach 2 nutrition, so u have a good idea what u should b eating and also what u r actually eating, is not the same thing as an eating disorder IMO, although some ppl who r generally dismissive of bodybuilding will tell u that.

Maintaining a balanced outlook and a sane, rational approach is the key 2 successfully integrating bodybuilding in2 ur lifestyle & avoiding obsessing. It's when ppl start obsessing over minor details that they cross the line in2 neurotic behaviors typical of eating disorders.

Like 4 instance IMO any sane diet plan will include leeway 4 occasional "cheats" 2 cover indulgences consistent w/ having a reasonably normal social life.

[lucasrd]

I just think some of the younger and skinnier dudes in this forum are confusing "bodybuliding" with "lifting weights"

I'll be the first to admit i'm a weight lifter and not really a bodybuilder per se. I'm not striving for 8% bodyfat or to be really ripped. I just want to be strong as hell and have managed to put up 380lbs at 207 bw on a semi-clean diet while still looking decent.

These people need to realize the difference between actually bodybuilding and working out hard and adjust their nutrition accordingly...Then we can all get along

[lucasrd]

Originally Posted by skinnyboipgh

Having a disciplined approach 2 nutrition is the key 2 success in the sport/lifestyle of bodybuilding. In fact any successful bodybuilder will tell u that nutrition is 80% of the battle.

Having a disciplined approach 2 nutrition, so u have a good idea what u should b eating and also what u r actually eating, is not the same thing as an eating disorder IMO, although some ppl who r generally dismissive of bodybuilding will tell u that.

Maintaining a balanced outlook and a sane, rational approach is the key 2 successfully integrating bodybuilding in2 ur lifestyle & avoiding obsessing. It's when ppl start obsessing over minor details that they cross the line in2 neurotic behaviors typical of eating disorders.

Like 4 instance IMO any sane diet plan will include leeway 4 occasional "cheats" 2 cover indulgences consistent w/ having a reasonably normal social life.

I think you have your head screwed on the straightest out of anyone on this forum. Always insightful and realistic. Well done!

[jman14]

Originally Posted by I3uilt

You do realize your in a bodybuilding forum right? this isnt ballerina tinkerbell ooo i just had a piece of popcorn im so full forum. Bodybuilders eat for one reason, to grow. In bodybuilding food has these priorities in this order

nutrition
cost
taste

When you accept a bodybuilding lifestyle you are making a commitment to yourself. Now im not saying that i personally do not go out and party/live it up with my friends but i save that for the weekends. Yes there are some people on here that are not bodybuilders and are taking things to extremes and may be making the REAL members of this forum look bad. I am very proud of my body and at 5'11" 195lbs 10%BF I would hardly call myself "frail".

I dont mean to sound like an ass but you have to understand that you arent in a dieting forum, your in a bodybuilding forum

not suggesting anything to do with you, but it's funny that you mentioned your height and weight, and that you weren't "frail". having an eating disorder has little or nothing to do with your body composition. There could easily be a 300 lb man sitting at 7% bodyfat, who still had a severe eating disorder. just pointing that out.

i have to agree with pecan that if food is interfering with your life, then you have an unhealthy relationship with food. of course, i'm not referring to the guys who don't like to eat out because they want to stick to there plans, but if food ever comes before social life consistently, then there is a serious problem.

I know this because i have experienced it, suffering from anorexia for 2 years, being hospitalized and currently regaining weight. (not to brag, but overall, i have gone from 112-139 nice gains lol). Anyway, i had to learn not to be afraid to eat, and that is what you have to do to put on muscle.

it's sad to see 6'1" 127 lb kids (i'm 15, i kno) asking whether to bulk or cut.

just my $.02

[dkicker87]

I do agree with some of that. There are people on this forum that go to extremes when doing a "cut" diet. Its mainly because they want to see results fast and that can be a problem. It doesn't make sense though to say people have an eating disorder because they don't want to go out to restaurants and pig out on a 3000 calorie meal. We spend a lot of time in the gym and we don't want it to go to waste because we have a bad diet. I to can go out and enjoy myself every once in a while with my friends getting drunk and eating too much, but not more than once a week. I hate when people come to me and tell me that I need to enjoy myself more and eat candy and go out to restaurants because that doesn't make me happy. I would rather eat my tuna and hardboiled eggs, then go to the beach and take my shirt off or hit the gym because thats what makes me happy(not trying to sound too cocky) than go out and eat a bunch of **** and sleep. Moderation is very important and people don't understand that.

[Sibrek]

I think the main problem with this site is that 90% of the people aren't looking to "bodybuild" in a competitive sense, as much as improve their bodies for the beach/confidence/sport, and they end up reading advice from people who are actually competing and do have necessary eating disorders by most standards.

[pecan]

Originally Posted by dkicker87

I hate when people come to me and tell me that I need to enjoy myself more and eat candy and go out to restaurants because that doesn't make me happy. I would rather eat my tuna and hardboiled eggs, then go to the beach and take my shirt off or hit the gym because thats what makes me happy(not trying to sound too cocky) than go out and eat a bunch of **** and sleep. Moderation is very important and people don't understand that.

yes, but if you understand the key of moderation, then none of this applies to you, correct?

my point is that the problem appears when you can't go to the restaurant with friends because it affects "progress." at that time, it's not just progress, it's your life being affected.

Originally Posted by Sibrek

I think the main problem with this site is that 90% of the people aren't looking to "bodybuild" in a competitive sense, as much as improve their bodies for the beach/confidence/sport, and they end up reading advice from people who are actually competing and do have necessary eating disorders by most standards.

you certainly summed that up better than i could...good point!

Originally Posted by jman14

Anyway, i had to learn not to be afraid to eat, and that is what you have to do to put on muscle.

overcoming that is extremely difficult...kudos to you.

Originally Posted by skinnyboipgh

Maintaining a balanced outlook and a sane, rational approach is the key 2 successfully integrating bodybuilding in2 ur lifestyle & avoiding obsessing. It's when ppl start obsessing over minor details that they cross the line in2 neurotic behaviors typical of eating disorders.

fully agreed.

Originally Posted by Mickdizzle

But, like you stated there are a lot of people on here that really don't realize that they have an eating disorder. I see a lot of younger guys (around my age) that are 6'0 135-145 lbs that fear eating anything "unclean" or they fear if they bulk to fast they are going to gain too much fat.

and that is precisely my main concern. there are some people on this site who are struggling, but at least are able to admit it. others, however, are completely unaware of what they are doing..and that is why eating disorders so easily spiral out of control.

thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[xl Achilles lx]

Originally Posted by Sibrek

I think the main problem with this site is that 90% of the people aren't looking to "bodybuild" in a competitive sense, as much as improve their bodies for the beach/confidence/sport, and they end up reading advice from people who are actually competing and do have necessary eating disorders by most standards.

^ I agree with that.

I don't see why half the people on these forums stress so much about hitting their macros exactly every day, never going over a certain amount of calories and avoiding social experiences so they won't go off their diet...and they're not even competing.

I can see if you were a sponsored pro (like some posters are) and had daily macros to hit. But if you're like the majority of the people on these forums (people wanting to get in shape) why worry so much about food all the time? Just eat healthy, exercise, and enjoy life.

[GermanBarbarian]

What about all these low fat lean meats that don't taste 1/2 as good as they could with some more fat on it, I mean life is to short right? I'm glad that you saw that you had a problem pecan and that you are not dealing with it right now, after all men like their women with some curves.

[Sixpack]

Amen to this post, ask yourself this will I ever compete? Live a healthy lifestyle and enjoy yourself. THis does not mean eating garbage its means enjoying your food, family, friends and not to stress over the small things. Its not like you just sit on your ass all day and do not do anything.You do exercise which is more then 70% of the US population does.
I agree with all points.

[Dave1987]

Pecan speaks the truth.

[grapemaster]

Originally Posted by Sibrek

I think the main problem with this site is that 90% of the people aren't looking to "bodybuild" in a competitive sense, as much as improve their bodies for the beach/confidence/sport, and they end up reading advice from people who are actually competing and do have necessary eating disorders by most standards.

perfect. They are possibly getting paid ... 90%+ aren't, big difference.

[Jules Verne]

Well, some people clearly enjoy being 'anal'. And for some it is the better way to achieve their goals. But I don't see how someone can keep it up indefinitely. Even the competitive BBers take a break from it it seems. So in many ways some of the people just wanting to look decent actually end up, over the course of the year, being a lot more strict and anal than those competing. That's scary!

So I agree that many need to re-evaluate and be both realistic about what their ultimate goal is and what it really takes to get there. Many do not need to be as careful about their diets. The key is to figure out what aspects are really the important parts and what is not worth fussing over.

A lot of people seem to go on from one extreme to another - close to 100% clean, super careful with occasional (or maybe more than occasional) binge 'cheats'. I'm not convinced that is a healthy way to go, either physically or mentally.

having said all that, I'm always thinking about food. What my next meal is going to be, what I'm having for dinner. Eating (and cooking) is often the highlight of my day. It's especially satisfying when you can cook for others that appreciate it too.

Actually I usually have a rough dinner plan for the week because my wife doesn't like thinking about meals and I cook for her and often the kids too (especially on the weekends). So yes, I wake up in the morning not only thinking about what I'm going to put in my breakfast, but also about dinner. If I'm going to be making something special, I might be thinking about that one meal for several days! How I'm going to change a recipe slightly or make it different or more interesting. But I love to cook, it's definitely a hobby and love good food and it's always been like that for me, even when I wasn't in decent shape or watching what I ate.

[Jules Verne]

Originally Posted by Sibrek

I think the main problem with this site is that 90% of the people aren't looking to "bodybuild" in a competitive sense, as much as improve their bodies for the beach/confidence/sport, and they end up reading advice from people who are actually competing and do have necessary eating disorders by most standards.

And they can't see the 'wood for the trees' and figure out what is really important and what is not.

But that's partly what the forum is for is it not? When the more experienced can at least attempt to steer the less experience to what is really important and what isn't.

Of course there is always going to be some level of disagreement and eveyone has to find their own comfort zone.

[Environ]

Eating disorders have nothing to do with food. The abuse of food in an ED is merely a symptom of a much bigger underlying problem - how you feel about yourself and how you value yourself. That's it. When the distorted thinking behind an ED is resolved, the abuse of food usually disappears.

Bodybuilders have to maintain very strict LIVES to get where they want to go. Not just food, but all aspects of their lives. But, after the competition they can stop with the severe restriction. They can do that on a temporary basis. That is not an ED because it is not related to how they value themselves. The bottom line for them is that if they do not develop their physique in a particular way, they won't win on stage. The risk here of actually developing an eating disorder is high because severe dieting does so much damage to your body, both physiologically and psychologically. Bodybuilding is an extreme lifestyle.

Many of the people on this site think that, in order to maintain health and fitness, they have to live the bodybuilding lifestyle. That is not true and that is where they are getting confused. This is ground that is ripe for the development of ED. Having come from a long time suffering from anorexia, it pains me to see so many kids here beating themselves up because they had a cheat meal, being afraid to have something that is not 'clean', or undervaluing themselves because they don't have a six-pack. It is tragic that teenagers (or anyone for that matter) judges themselves entirely by how they look. But society does this nowadays. These kids should be out enjoying their adolescence, not permanently scrutinising what they are eating. Wasting all that much thought on food means that they are not focusing on the important things in life.

In fact, bodybuilders are NOT all that healthy because they are constantly yo-yo dieting (albeit with a purpose, but it's unhealthy by definition nonetheless).

Going on a properly controlled, yet nutritionally balanced diet to achieve a certain body composition for a competition is one thing. Lots of people do it (and consequentally usually end up yo-yo dieting for the rest of their lives), but the real problem is when people because AFRAID to eat again for fear of getting fat. The issue here is not whether they will get fat again, but that they have put their entire worth into their current appearance. If that changes, so does their entire value system. So, they prefer to live with the ED. That's tragic.

The healthiest thing is for people NOT to diet. Eating healthy and dieting are not the same thing. The first three letters of diet are DIE.

[Oddball8945]

very strong great post ^

why Environ doesn't have more reps is beyond me. He is no doubt one of the most helpful members for those trying to get over an ED on this board.

thanks for everything

[Rigit23]

pecan and Environ are sorta saying the same thing in different ways.

Yes, the bodybuilding lifestyle does take its tolls on social situation occasionally. However, it would be bad to make a generalization that a large amount of people are over concerned with their food intake and what not.

When I started 2 years ago, I HAD to follow a diet to the T. If I cheated or ate something unhealthy, I felt completely terrible and regretted it. Now Im much more understanding and open for cheat meals and having more leeway in my diet. Yes diet is very important to bodybuilding. Yes sometimes it detracts from social situations (say going out to dinner). But there are few people who would consider making bodybuilding choices an Eating Disorder

[Jules Verne]

I'd just like to say that I dislike the whole idea of 'cheat' meals/days. It just seems unnatural to be so anal about the diet for 80-90% of the time and then 'let it all go' for 10-20%.

What's wrong with moderation closer to 100% of the time?

So I'm cutting. I really fancy some chocolate, so f**k it I have a piece and go over my calories for the day by 50kcal. So what? It doesn't have to be the whole bar in one go.

I go out to a restaurant where I'm not going to worry about what I'm eating. Have something decent, tasty or whatever. But you don't HAVE to eat the WHOLE pizza, 2 slices of cheesecake, and drink a dozen beers all in one go.

I know everyone's different and for some (or certainly many here) the clean/cheat way works, but I can honestly say I don't understand it.

[Aindreas]

Originally Posted by Jules Verne

I'd just like to say that I dislike the whole idea of 'cheat' meals/days. It just seems unnatural to be so anal about the diet for 80-90% of the time and then 'let it all go' for 10-20%.

What's wrong with moderation closer to 100% of the time?

So I'm cutting. I really fancy some chocolate, so f**k it I have a piece and go over my calories for the day by 50kcal. So what? It doesn't have to be the whole bar in one go.

I go out to a restaurant where I'm not going to worry about what I'm eating. Have something decent, tasty or whatever. But you don't HAVE to eat the WHOLE pizza, 2 slices of cheesecake, and drink a dozen beers all in one go.

I know everyone's different and for some (or certainly many here) the clean/cheat way works, but I can honestly say I don't understand it.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about it. From a psychological standpoint, the way people intentionally binge just seems so "wrong."

[grapemaster]

do you view eating healthy and not eating junk, even if offered it, an eating disorder??? b/c I am like that... and I don't think I have an ED... hey maybe I do, who knows. I try to eat REAL food... if it is real food and I'm out and it is gonna mess up my calories, I still eat it... but I really try to avoid all the process and chemical stuff. I just don't view it as food, it might as well be rocks or something. I try to eat what I could kill or get naturally.

[matthor]

Originally Posted by Aindreas

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about it. From a psychological standpoint, the way people intentionally binge just seems so "wrong."

look at most regular folk who eat like crap, rarely exercise but arent fat, not 7% but not fat. They do indulge in 'dirty' foods, but dont go nuts, they stop when they're content because the next time they get ice cream isnt exactly 2weeks of calorie restriction away - so not getting bang for their buck on that bowl of dessert isnt a concern for them. My brother is a great example of this, he doesnt really train, parties all the damn time, doesnt eat healthy but has an ok physique because he eats when hungry and stops when full.

[Kybar]

yeah according to this post i have like 5 eating dissorders. but then again i was fat my whole life and just recently lost 100lbs, so yeah food kinda scares me a bit, but thats why im here,

[pecan]

Originally Posted by Environ

Eating disorders have nothing to do with food. The abuse of food in an ED is merely a symptom of a much bigger underlying problem - how you feel about yourself and how you value yourself. That's it. When the distorted thinking behind an ED is resolved, the abuse of food usually disappears.

i completely agree....

buy you're bringing another factor into this by stating that ed's are psychologically-based.

YES, they are.

but, eating-disordered behavior also results from semi-starvation (i think you touched on this point anyway)

I HIGHLY SUGGEST READING THIS STUDY

[lupinecat]

I agree with just about everything that has been said in this thread. ED's are not about food, BBing can be a psychologically (and sometimes physically) unhealthy lifestyle. Many of the threads/posts on here concern me in that way. However, I also believe that the majority of western society has a bad relationship with food. Hardly anyone eats for a)hunger or b)nutrients, any more. Obese people eat to cure their emotions and create a wall to hide behind. Anorexics control food intake as a way of taking control of their life. Bodybuilders eat to build unnatural physiques. Food has taken on a such a strange value in our society, it is marketed constantly as a pleasure item. There is also such an overabundance - to the point of ridiculous - of food surrounding westerners while other cultures/societies starve (the prevalence of ED's in these cultures are significantly lower, especially when food is in short supply).

How can anyone have a good relationship with food in western society? Children are constantly reinforced into thinking of food as a reward, as a 'pleasure' goal, rather than as something to fuel a healthy body, not to be abused, but enjoyed in moderation. And the PREPACKAGED JUNK that doesn't even pass for food most of the time... all these candy cereals/pop drinks and chocolates etc etc While there is such a wide wonderful variety of amazing food available to us through nature - why does western society have to pervert it so and create packaged crap out of almost, purely, chemical compounds imitating nature??? My Chinese herbalist made a good point about these 'food chemicals' in that they are so strong, and so unnatural that our taste buds become desensitized to enjoying the natural, subtle, flavours of nature. Once you start consuming all these 'full on' taste enhancing chemicals, your tastebuds come to crave them, like MSG, and you loose the ability to taste the sweetness etc that occurs naturally in food. Like for example, rice is naturally a very sweet tasting food, but because we are so used to eating sugar and refined crap we become unable to detect the natural subtle flavours of nature.

I am sorry, I am preaching a bit, but I think there are so many issues compounding to make a healthy relationship with food almost impossible in western society a) the epidemic of depression, stress and general emotional disorders b) unrealistic body images surrounding everyone c) food constantly marketed as a pleasure item to cure emotional discomfort d) a lack of education about food and cooking etc etc And I am by no means immune.

I have suffered severely from ED's and am not sure it will ever truely go away, so I got proactive and started BBing, so that if I was going obsess about food/looks etc etc I would at least find a healthier way of doing this... as opposed to not eating. Having made this decision my relationship with food and my body has got better, not completey gone, but regaining physical strength and eating the proper nutrients... getting in touch with my body and enjoying that sensation, has given me the drive, determination and the ENERGY! to sort out the root of my ED's... But anyway - that is my journey.

Okay ill get off my soapbox now... But thank you everyone for contributing to a critical and enlightening thread.