Tom Platz... Screw Coleman

**F W Nietszche** · 01-20-2005, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by biggash

Agreed> reps for you!!!

WTF? You don't agree with what I said, you just want my reps... I feel dirty and soiled

**biggash** · 01-20-2005, 01:51 PM

Well actually I do agree that for this thread we should get off the topic of steroids. But no reps needed here. Thank You!!! Get some oxy clean that'll take the soil out!!! LOL

**Antoine** · 01-20-2005, 02:42 PM

Tom platz rocks!

Craziest legs evAr.

**j.junkie** · 01-20-2005, 04:39 PM

for one, powerlifting federations nowadays, such as the wpo,where ed coan and garry frank compete, do NOT judge on a bodyweight to weight basis, whoever lifts the most weight wins now the overall. Only few of them actually still do the formula of bodyweight to actual weight. Ohyeah coleman deadlifting with starpa, and jackson without, im not gonn argue that point anymore but i train at westside alot and have deadlifted 700, and with wraps i could do about 75 pounds more, so quite frankly johnny jacksons deadlift is much more impressive. oh to the one comparing coleman12-15 reps scheme, if u beleive everything u read ur fooloing urself, and his squat depth for those doubles with 8 might if he was kucky pass in the ipa, which is the most lenient federation(really its bulll ****). If coleman were to squat as deep as platz did then u could say this. Quite frankly this thread is just becoming a point of who u like more as a bodybuilder, with no facts to prove ur point at all.

**F W Nietszche** · 01-20-2005, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by j.junkie

for one, powerlifting federations nowadays, such as the wpo,where ed coan and garry frank compete, do NOT judge on a bodyweight to weight basis, whoever lifts the most weight wins now the overall. Only few of them actually still do the formula of bodyweight to actual weight. Ohyeah coleman deadlifting with starpa, and jackson without, im not gonn argue that point anymore but i train at westside alot and have deadlifted 700, and with wraps i could do about 75 pounds more, so quite frankly johnny jacksons deadlift is much more impressive. oh to the one comparing coleman12-15 reps scheme, if u beleive everything u read ur fooloing urself, and his squat depth for those doubles with 8 might if he was kucky pass in the ipa, which is the most lenient federation(really its bulll ****). If coleman were to squat as deep as platz did then u could say this. Quite frankly this thread is just becoming a point of who u like more as a bodybuilder, with no facts to prove ur point at all.

You deserve a rep ( i will if I am out), Coleman went a bit about parallel, while Platz has always done half and hams touching squats.

**Ryo** · 01-20-2005, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by biggash

People admire Tom for the power and size of his legs, not the drugs he took. We could all probably take everything he was taking and still never have that kind of power in our legs. He was a freak by definition. Born to squat if you will. He obviously had a lot of tendon strength in his legs and some strength is just God given. The drugs help yes but how would we stand up to an all natural Platz. We would still get blasted away.

Yes, he was a tremendous athlete in the gym. He trained all of his bodyparts equally as hard. But the thing, no one wanted to be Mr. O more then Tom.

**breathingmurder** · 01-20-2005, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by j.junkie

for one, powerlifting federations nowadays, such as the wpo,where ed coan and garry frank compete, do NOT judge on a bodyweight to weight basis, whoever lifts the most weight wins now the overall. Only few of them actually still do the formula of bodyweight to actual weight. Ohyeah coleman deadlifting with starpa, and jackson without, im not gonn argue that point anymore but i train at westside alot and have deadlifted 700, and with wraps i could do about 75 pounds more, so quite frankly johnny jacksons deadlift is much more impressive. oh to the one comparing coleman12-15 reps scheme, if u beleive everything u read ur fooloing urself, and his squat depth for those doubles with 8 might if he was kucky pass in the ipa, which is the most lenient federation(really its bulll ****). If coleman were to squat as deep as platz did then u could say this. Quite frankly this thread is just becoming a point of who u like more as a bodybuilder, with no facts to prove ur point at all.

Please don't talk when you don't know anything about what you're talking about. Federations never judged on a bodyweight to weight ratio. They have weight classe and whoever lifts the most in their weightclass wins.

Of course andy bolton and gary frank are both superheavyweights so it doesn't matter how much you weigh as long as you're 308+. I do agree that johnnie jackson's deadlift is better than ronnies. And there was no way ronnie was below paralell in that vid.

**bosshogg3** · 01-20-2005, 06:07 PM

Pound for pound Johnny Jackson is the strongest bber today.It was franko back in the day.

**j.junkie** · 01-20-2005, 06:44 PM

dude ur wrong the wpo does not have weight classes in contest, example the moutaneer, which coan has won many times, and look at coans lift at 220 and 242, but unless ur talking about usapl and most others ur right, sorry i wasnt clear on that statement.

**F W Nietszche** · 01-20-2005, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ryo

Yes, he was a tremendous athlete in the gym. He trained all of his bodyparts equally as hard. But the thing, no one wanted to be Mr. O more then Tom.

It was not insomuch as how much he could lift, it was the way he went about it and his pain tolerance.

**glk19** · 01-20-2005, 07:47 PM

wow this has been a great thread to read. heres my input though. why is everyone comparing ronnie to this guy? does it really matter who squats more? why would ronnie risk injury, and his career, just to prove that he can squat more than this guy. everyone at the bb forums says we dont care about strength here, its all about size. and the opposite at the powerlifting forum. so why do you care how much he squats? its all about looks...

**jayvee** · 01-20-2005, 08:52 PM

this section is an IFBB pro BODYBUILDING section. who cares who can lift more, or if this guy wears a suit or uses straps blah, blah, blah - bodybuilding and powerlifting are completely different sports. seeing as we are talking bodybuilding, no offense to tom fans, but he achieved very little with a good, but not outstanding physique, with a good set of legs - realistically, so what - its one bodypart. you dont see a thread like this on who has the better delts - ronnie or kevin levrone, because its pointless. as much as i like kevin, ronnies the champ. thats great if tom platz was intense and a beast in the gym, but again, on stage, did that have an impact on him winning? with his record, i would suggest not. ronnie on the other hand is proportioned and massive everywhere and has won seven straight olympias and counting. nuff said really..

**DiamondDelts** · 01-20-2005, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by jayvee

this section is an IFBB pro BODYBUILDING section. who cares who can lift more, or if this guy wears a suit or uses straps blah, blah, blah - bodybuilding and powerlifting are completely different sports. seeing as we are talking bodybuilding, no offense to tom fans, but he achieved very little with a good, but not outstanding physique, with a good set of legs - realistically, so what - its one bodypart. you dont see a thread like this on who has the better delts - ronnie or kevin levrone, because its pointless. as much as i like kevin, ronnies the champ. thats great if tom platz was intense and a beast in the gym, but again, on stage, did that have an impact on him winning? with his record, i would suggest not. ronnie on the other hand is proportioned and massive everywhere and has won seven straight olympias and counting. nuff said really..

Exactly, some people seem to think this is "powerlifting.com" or "who has better stats.com"

**F W Nietszche** · 01-21-2005, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by jayvee

this section is an IFBB pro BODYBUILDING section. who cares who can lift more, or if this guy wears a suit or uses straps blah, blah, blah - bodybuilding and powerlifting are completely different sports. seeing as we are talking bodybuilding, no offense to tom fans, but he achieved very little with a good, but not outstanding physique, with a good set of legs - realistically, so what - its one bodypart. you dont see a thread like this on who has the better delts - ronnie or kevin levrone, because its pointless. as much as i like kevin, ronnies the champ. thats great if tom platz was intense and a beast in the gym, but again, on stage, did that have an impact on him winning? with his record, i would suggest not. ronnie on the other hand is proportioned and massive everywhere and has won seven straight olympias and counting. nuff said really..

Alot of Tom's not winning anything was his bicep injury, it really looked bad after that and it totally screwed up on the momentum. But I agree with most of your post and yeah... Ronnie is NOT proportioned he was in his first few wins, the closest to proportions now is Dexter, but this is the mass era.

**Natural Science** · 01-21-2005, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by F W Nietszche

Alot of Tom's not winning anything was his bicep injury, it really looked bad after that and it totally screwed up on the momentum. But I agree with most of your post and yeah... Ronnie is NOT proportioned he was in his first few wins, the closest to proportions now is Dexter, but this is the mass era.

i think you mean that ronnie is not aesthetic. proportion is relation to everything being balanced, which ronnie definitely is. ronnie is not aesthetic, however, meaning he does have a smooth, pretty physique, but a buldging, freaky one.

and jayvees entire post was absolutely dead-on. wow so platz had better legs than ronnie. ronnie had a better everything else, and has won over 25 pro titles and counting. its pointless trying to compare them. a better comparison would be someone who actually contends with ronnie in terms of mass, like vic richards or paul dillet.

**F W Nietszche** · 01-21-2005, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Natural Science

i think you mean that ronnie is not aesthetic. proportion is relation to everything being balanced, which ronnie definitely is. ronnie is not aesthetic, however, meaning he does have a smooth, pretty physique, but a buldging, freaky one.

and jayvees entire post was absolutely dead-on. wow so platz had better legs than ronnie. ronnie had a better everything else, and has won over 25 pro titles and counting. its pointless trying to compare them. a better comparison would be someone who actually contends with ronnie in terms of mass, like vic richards or paul dillet.

I personally think ROnnie's forearms are to small for his upper arms, his triceps seem to overpower his peaky biceps (I think it has to do with the fact that is biceps don't have full muscle bellies) and his calves don't match up with his other bodyparts. Those excluded, Ronnie has good proportions, even his abs match up with the rest of his mass. I am actually being serious here.

**AYung** · 01-21-2005, 09:36 AM

Thats a lot of weight!

**LatsMakeTheMan** · 01-21-2005, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by str8flexed

Jackson is also a pro powerlifter... pound for pound probably the strongest bodybuilder around

Yea I know......that's why I like him. He's probably my favorite active BBer. Like Franco Columbu, I love BBers who still have that powerlifting mentality about them.

Johnny's considerably smaller than Ronnie.....I wonder how his strength measures up "straight up."

**Max Protein** · 01-22-2005, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ryo

Don't forget also that the main reason people like Tom so much is because he is one of the most insane BBer's of all time. His drug usage and training would scare most pro's today.

Platz's mental attitude is what set him apart from the rest of the field as well. I remember reading how he would talk about wanting to make judges fall off their chairs and drop their pencils in amazement as he walks on stage: "What the hell is that?"

**Max Protein** · 01-22-2005, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by LatsMakeTheMan

Like Franco Columbu, I love BBers who still have that powerlifting mentality about them.

I think "admire" would have been the more suitable word here.

**KenWaller** · 01-22-2005, 11:45 PM

Ronnie can easily push 700 pounds up for 12 or more reps on any given day. When he's feeling good, he can go up and over 800 lbs. Much like on the bench press he can do 495 on all 3 angles all on the same day. Now who can do that?

Let's just image what MetroFlex gym owner Brian Dobb's is always sayin about Ronnie. "I think if Ronnie put his mind to it, he could go down as the best bodybuilder and powerlifter of all time." Think if Coleman decided to do only 5 reps for a workout and was feeling really good on that day, can you begin to imagine how much he can press up? I'm sure it would be scary.

**Max Protein** · 01-23-2005, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by KenWaller

Ronnie can easily push 700 pounds up for 12 or more reps on any given day. When he's feeling good, he can go up and over 800 lbs. Much like on the bench press he can do 495 on all 3 angles all on the same day. Now who can do that?

Let's just image what MetroFlex gym owner Brian Dobb's is always sayin about Ronnie. "I think if Ronnie put his mind to it, he could go down as the best bodybuilder and powerlifter of all time." Think if Coleman decided to do only 5 reps for a workout and was feeling really good on that day, can you begin to imagine how much he can press up? I'm sure it would be scary.

You mean Brian Dobson?

**Myth Destroyer** · 01-23-2005, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by KenWaller

Ronnie can easily push 700 pounds up for 12 or more reps on any given day. When he's feeling good, he can go up and over 800 lbs. Much like on the bench press he can do 495 on all 3 angles all on the same day. Now who can do that?

Let's just image what MetroFlex gym owner Brian Dobb's is always sayin about Ronnie. "I think if Ronnie put his mind to it, he could go down as the best bodybuilder and powerlifter of all time." Think if Coleman decided to do only 5 reps for a workout and was feeling really good on that day, can you begin to imagine how much he can press up? I'm sure it would be scary.

I doubt Coleman could squat more than 1,200, bench more than 1,005, or deadlift more than 933. If you want a combined total, I doubt he could put up more than 2,800 on the same day.

**F W Nietszche** · 01-23-2005, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by KenWaller

Ronnie can easily push 700 pounds up for 12 or more reps on any given day. When he's feeling good, he can go up and over 800 lbs. Much like on the bench press he can do 495 on all 3 angles all on the same day. Now who can do that?

Let's just image what MetroFlex gym owner Brian Dobb's is always sayin about Ronnie. "I think if Ronnie put his mind to it, he could go down as the best bodybuilder and powerlifter of all time." Think if Coleman decided to do only 5 reps for a workout and was feeling really good on that day, can you begin to imagine how much he can press up? I'm sure it would be scary.

I am pretty sure that footage is of Platz after he had the squatoff with Dr. Squat, he maxed out before doing the 500s. Also Platz was WAY past his prime. Ronnie is probably stronger, but it is stupid to say Ronnie could push 700 for 12 reps like what Platz did:

1. His arms were wide and the bar was low on his traps... what does this matter you say? It gives him MUCH better leverage. Platz had it very high on his traps and probably a more narrow stance as well.

2. He didn't go as far down, it was barely parallel, maybe not even that, especially on the second rep, Platz went below parallel.

3. Ronnie had a squat suit as well as knee wraps.

All of this adds up you know.

Ronnie is strong, I don't doubt that but he was doing more or less a powerlifintg style squat compared to Platz's bodybuilding squats.

**LatsMakeTheMan** · 01-23-2005, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Max Protein

I think "admire" would have been the more suitable word here.

yea yea

**KenWaller** · 01-23-2005, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Myth Destroyer

I doubt Coleman could squat more than 1,200, bench more than 1,005, or deadlift more than 933. If you want a combined total, I doubt he could put up more than 2,800 on the same day.

Alright, what's the record combined total then? Because quite frankly I doubt anyone could do that except for Coleman.

And N.W. I believe it was you who gave 3 reasons why platz is so great. You said he was out of his prime when he did those 500 lb'ers. Heck, Coleman is 41, last time I checked, your basically out of ur prime to most analysts when you're 32.

**F W Nietszche** · 01-23-2005, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by KenWaller

Alright, what's the record combined total then? Because quite frankly I doubt anyone could do that except for Coleman.

And N.W. I believe it was you who gave 3 reasons why platz is so great. You said he was out of his prime when he did those 500 lb'ers. Heck, Coleman is 41, last time I checked, your basically out of ur prime to most analysts when you're 32.

Platz was not the greatest bodybuilder of all time, I agree, but Coleman can't do the lifts that people say he can.

You and I both know what I mean by "prime". It means when you peak, when you reach your all time best, and the early 90s were not Tom's best. Coleman is at his best right now, Dickerson was at his best in his mid forties, Arnold was at his best in his twenties. And that is when their respective primes were, age is not that important.

Coleman is strong, but he definately cannot lift 700x12 RAW.

**jayvee** · 01-23-2005, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by F W Nietszche

Platz was not the greatest bodybuilder of all time, I agree, but Coleman can't do the lifts that people say he can.

Coleman is strong, but he definately cannot lift 700x12 RAW.

it would take a pretty naive person to say ronnie DEFINATELY cannot lift those lifts. the man is strong, so if he were to train for that specifically, it could be well possible. again, it brings us to the point of why the heck would he do such a thing? he is not powerlifting, he is bodybuilding - it would be pointless and careless to aim for raw lifts which wouldnt be overly beneficial or could result in injury, when he is training his body for the bodybuilding stage.

no offense, but this thread reminds me of some teenager seeing someone with a bit of muscle and asking the famed question - "how much do you bench". there is so much more to bodybuilding than your max lifts, and lets be honest - the poundages ronnie heaves are damn impressive anyways. if tom platz was all intensity, then good on him, but mabey thats where he went wrong also in choosing bodybuilding over powerlifting, because other than a good set of legs, regardless of his bicep injury, he had the upper body genetics of a sea creature. he had no real significant pro wins. now compare that to ronnie. done.

**Ryo** · 01-24-2005, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by jayvee

if tom platz was all intensity, then good on him, but mabey thats where he went wrong also in choosing bodybuilding over powerlifting, because other than a good set of legs, regardless of his bicep injury, he had the upper body genetics of a sea creature. he had no real significant pro wins. now compare that to ronnie. done.

upper body genetics of a sea creature? Tom had long full biceps, thick round delts, very long collar bones with, long forearm bellies, fully stacked abs,thick full pecs, big ribcage, lats that went all the way down to his waist. I have no idea where you are getting this information from. In 81, his upper body was very close to being as large as his lower, if not matched.

**jayvee** · 01-24-2005, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ryo

upper body genetics of a sea creature? Tom had long full biceps, thick round delts, very long collar bones with, long forearm bellies, fully stacked abs,thick full pecs, big ribcage, lats that went all the way down to his waist. I have no idea where you are getting this information from. In 81, his upper body was very close to being as large as his lower, if not matched.

you have no idea where im getting this information from? its opinion based on what ive seen of toms physique. youre welcome to your opinion just as im entitled to mine. but if tom was as good as you say he is, why didnt he a) win anything significant ; and b) if you were able to have anyones upper body, would you choose tom platz? personally, i could name about 200 bodybuilders over time id rather look like. but dont take it too personally champ - again, its all opinion..

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