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  1. #151
    Registered User Cheese_Whiz_7's Avatar
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    In Beast's article ( http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm ) he was saying leucine supplementation by itself throughs out of balance the BCAA's. His recommendation is to supplement with all 3 BCAA's, thereby preserving this balance.
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  2. #152
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RomeoJunior
    Could someone please give me the link to the cheap Leucine!?? I've been looking for some for weeks now...
    We aren't allowed to post the link. I'd do a search on google:

    leucine Code 023.0
    Originally Posted by Cheese_Whiz_7
    In Beast's article ( http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm ) he was saying leucine supplementation by itself throughs out of balance the BCAA's. His recommendation is to supplement with all 3 BCAA's, thereby preserving this balance.
    Lucky for us... whey protein contains plenty of BCAA's
    Last edited by pu12en12g; 06-15-2005 at 11:03 AM.
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  3. #153
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    Thumbs up

    You know BCAA's are still valuable to sup with hehe

    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    We aren't allowed to post the link. I'd do a search on google:

    leucine Code 023.0


    Lucky for us... whey protein contains plenty of BCAA's
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  4. #154
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sixpack
    You know BCAA's are still valuable to sup with hehe
    Free-Form BCAA's ? During workout.. yes.

    But I would increase whey protein intake dramatically first.
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  5. #155
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    Agree with ya on that for sure

    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    Free-Form BCAA's ? During workout.. yes.

    But I would increase whey protein intake dramatically first.
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  6. #156
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lok7y
    I feel like you are (partially) missing the point.

    I scoop of Whey (on average) contains ~ 2.8g of L-leucine. Once it hits the gut, your body can generally start extracting amino acids out of whey after 45 mins. from the studies I've seen. But neither of those are really the point.

    What I'm trying to get at is that there are certain amino acids that send a stronger fed state signal per calorie (leucine is one; there are others as well) or per gram than any whole protein source, whey included. Once ingested, free-form aminos are generally taken up as substrate in 15 minutes (1/3 the time of whey).

    Now just sit on that for a second in light of my earlier postings. You're getting a more rapid anabolic response, and an amplified anabolic response, with a far more efficient use of calories (which is why I particularly recommend leucine to dieters), not to mention the other aforementioned benefits.

    Given how cheap bulk leucine is, it's really hard to argue against the merits of supplementing with it.
    This post deserves a "bump for emphasis" IMO, considering:

    1) The source
    2) The content
    3) The fact that so many n00bs skim to the END of threads...skipping much of the content
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  7. #157
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    PU beings leucine is so cheap how about if one just took it as a supp and used regular whey if luecine is the key here. This would save some money. Any how, how many grams per day would one need to take. I am trying to find it
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  8. #158
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sixpack
    PU beings leucine is so cheap how about if one just took it as a supp and used regular whey if luecine is the key here. Any how many grams per day . I am trying to find it
    Trying to find bulk leucine ? It's around $4.50 for 100g
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  9. #159
    ALLMAX NUTRITION Sixpack's Avatar
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    How much per day ya think would be a good start 5-10gs

    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    Trying to find bulk leucine ? It's around $4.50 for 100g
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  10. #160
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    Originally Posted by dmxinc
    Here are a few links with some information. The first two are documented.

    http://www.gettingwell.com/drug_info...bra_0042.shtml
    Wow that first one sounds promising...

    INDICATIONS AND USAGE
    BCAAs may be helpful in a minority of patients with hepatic encephalopathy. There is preliminary evidence that BCAAs may prevent muscle catabolism and promote protein synthesis in some trauma subjects and, possibly, in some exercises. There is no evidence that they are effective for enhancement of athletic performance. Neither have they proved useful in treating amotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). In one trial, BCAAs reduced symptoms of tardive dyskinesia. They have also been used with some benefit in some with phenylketonuria.
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  11. #161
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sixpack
    How much per day ya think would be a good start 5-10gs
    Pre / During workout ? That sounds good. I wish I could start my "leucine megadose" review right now.. but I can't.
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  12. #162
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    Pre / During workout ? That sounds good. I wish I could start my "leucine megadose" review right now.. but I can't.
    why? what are you doing?
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  13. #163
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    Originally Posted by Sixpack
    I like ICE by Xtreme Formulations or Xtend by Scivation yes take them pre, during and for sure afterwards of all your workouts. Also inbetween meals if you wish. I do cardio practically on an empty stomach besides a scoop of whey and a serving of BCAA to prevent muscle loss. The results have been great

    if you do that, wouldn't the body use protein and bcaa's to fuel your workouts?
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  14. #164
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zachattack43
    why? what are you doing?
    Reviewing X-Factor... and ****ing loving it...
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  15. #165
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    Reviewing X-Factor... and ****ing loving it...
    I feel you, only problem with it was price, no fish oil allows and limited other oils. Ever since i have used it, when it boosted me past 190 and welll to about 196 ( less bf too) (back in spring) i have never looked back to anything below 193
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  16. #166
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    to negate the bad taste, couldn't it just mixed with whey protein? Or would this be a bad combination for some reason?
    Last edited by Baptizer; 07-15-2005 at 12:18 PM.
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  17. #167
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    Sorry to bump this post, but I'd rather do this than create another one. I just purchased some bulk leucine and had a few questions:
    1. How much should I take before workout and during?
    2. How much should I take on my off days?

    I am just a bit confused becuase, based on other threads/posts, it appears as if 50g of free form BCAA's a day should be the goal (from this post: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...4&postcount=10 ).

    When I bought the bulk supply of this, I believe it was 100g for $5.00 or so. So basically, I will use 50g of that each day? So a kilo of bulk leucine will last 20 days ($50.00 for a kilo)? Wowzers....thats a budget killer if so (at least my budget.....wife wont like that! hehe).

    Take care all..have a nice weekend!
    Last edited by Baptizer; 07-22-2005 at 10:49 AM.
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  18. #168
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    To the top !

    Can't wait till someone dose a standalone megadose review !
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  19. #169
    Dieting Down BringnIt's Avatar
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    Eh, I can probably do one in a few weeks.
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    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    To add to this great discussion, I thought I would clarify something regarding a possible "imbalance" when megadosing leucine:

    Originally Posted by 391rippy
    Research has shown that leucine-rich diets or administration of leucine alone lead to decreases in valine and isoleucine plasma concentrations and a BCAA imbalance (Shirmomura et al., 2004). While it may be cheaper to supplement with leucine alone instead of all three BCAA, one should supplement with all three BCAA so not to create a BCAA imbalance.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast11.htm
    One small scoop of Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey:

    Per serving:

    Protein 23 g

    L-Leucine 2470 mg
    L-Isoleucine 1520 mg
    L-Valine 1440 mg

    Glutamine 3870 mg
    L-Proline 1540 mg
    L-Histidine 400 mg

    Originally Posted by 391rippy
    from what i understand, the problem isn't that you're not getting the valine and isoleucine, but that you're getting MUCH more leucine and it's throwing off the balance (just curious here, not trying to prove you wrong or anything)
    Link: Effects of BCAA Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle during Exercise

    It was reported that feeding rats a leucine-rich diet decreases plasma concentrations of isoleucine and valine (10) and activates the hepatic BCKDH complex (11). This indicates that administration of leucine alone induces BCAA imbalance presumably because of inhibition of BCKDH kinase by KIC.
    IMPORTANT ! ! !

    Notice how they reached that conclusion, and that a LOW PROTEIN diet was used:

    High levels of dietary amino and branched-chain alpha-keto acids alter plasma and brain amino acid concentrations in rats.

    Block KP, Harper AE.

    Department of Biochemistry, College of Agricultural and Life Sciences, University of Wisconsin, Madison 53706.

    Plasma and brain amino acid and plasma branched-chain alpha-keto acid (BCKA) concentrations were measured in rats fed diets containing high levels of individual amino and alpha-keto acids. Consumption of a low-protein (9% casein) diet high in leucine or alpha-ketoisocaproate depressed plasma concentrations of isoleucine and valine and their respective keto acids, alpha-keto-beta-methylvalerate and alpha-ketoisovalerate. High dietary levels of alpha-keto-beta-methylvalerate or alpha-ketoisovalerate (but not of isoleucine or valine) depressed plasma concentrations of the other BCKA and their respective branched-chain amino acids (BCAA). Consumption of a low protein, high phenylalanine diet depressed plasma concentrations of both BCAA and BCKA. Brain large neutral amino acid pools of rats fed all low-protein, high-amino acid diets were depleted. Consumption of diets high in individual BCKA increased brain concentrations of aromatic amino acids. In this study of rats allowed to feed for only 6 h/d, elevated brain phenylalanine concentration was associated with a significant depression of food intake, whereas elevated brain BCAA concentrations were not. Also, elevated plasma BCKA concentrations, comparable with those observed in maple syrup urine disease, were accompanied by elevations in concentrations of aromatic amino acids in brain but not in plasma.
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    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by acecombact1
    Nutr. 2005 Jun;135(6 Suppl):1553S-6S.

    The role of leucine in the regulation of protein metabolism.

    Garlick PJ.

    Department of Animal Sciences, University of Illinois, Urbana, 61801, USA. pgarlick@uiuc.edu

    Studies both in vivo and in vitro have shown that leucine at a very high dose can stimulate muscle protein synthesis, an effect that is enhanced in vivo by insulin secreted in response to the leucine dose. High leucine can also inhibit protein degradation in skeletal muscle, as well as in liver. In contrast, at normal physiological levels, increasing leucine concentration by infusion stimulates muscle protein synthesis by enhancing its sensitivity to insulin. It is concluded that the role of leucine in vivo is to provide a signal that amino acids are available, which in combination with the signal of energy availability from insulin, stimulates muscle protein synthesis.
    ^^^ FYI
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    Too many big words. Can someone put it in laymsn's terms?
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    To add to this great discussion, I thought I would clarify something regarding a possible "imbalance" when megadosing leucine:



    One small scoop of Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey:






    Link: Effects of BCAA Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle during Exercise



    IMPORTANT ! ! !

    Notice how they reached that conclusion, and that a LOW PROTEIN diet was used:
    yeah... i'm not hearing anything but lots of phenalablogs and isoketoflates... what does this all mean?
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    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by webslinger
    yeah... i'm not hearing anything but lots of phenalablogs and isoketoflates... what does this all mean?
    A "imbalance" when megadosing leucine would appear to be a concern only when on a very low protein diet.
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  25. #175
    Registered User Phosphate bond's Avatar
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    Leucine is the BCAA responsible for most of the effects we are looking for.....that is certainly true..

    However, I personally would not take leucine by itself. The other two (isoleucine and valine) are most likely synergistic by other mechanisms. You need them for peptide hormone formation anyway (insulin, GH, etc)

    Even the 2:1:1 ratio is "heavy" on the leucine compared to what you normally find in protein. Whey protein has the highest leucine ratio (1.6 :1 :1), but even it is not 2:1:1.

    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    A "imbalance" when megadosing leucine would appear to be a concern only when on a very low protein diet.
    While I agree that this is mostly true *depending on dose* (and especially true with proteins other than whey that have weaker leucine to isoleucine/valine ratios like egg white for example ) I still would go with the 2:1:1. Though this is not to say that Leucine by itself wouldn't be capable of positive results.

    Later on I'll try to pool some theories/mechanisms together on how the others work together with leucine. (I haven't read this thread entirely yet so some of it might already be in here) I'll probably add it to this thread---->http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=578950
    Last edited by Phosphate bond; 10-02-2005 at 09:11 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Lok7y
    I personally think MRM's BCAA product is the best-tasting one out there (and that's genuinely saying something). ICE comes in second. Haven't tried Xtend. I'm too much of a cheap bastard to use pre-made BCAA mixes unless somebody gives em to me for free, so generally I just choke down the unflavored stuff.
    Lok7y,

    Are you talking about MRM BCAA+G ? If so... what flavor ?
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    You're a dirty topickicker
    Which SUPPLEMENTS do i use PRE/POSTWORKOUT:
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    [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=587578&highlight=raloxifene[/url]
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    i just got 700grams total of bcaa's from 2 bottles for 25$, and am interested in megadosing, but im 145lb with 9%bf, so, from what i heard, 20% of your lean body mass should be how many grams you should take for mega dosing, so it would be about 25-30grams for me. MOST of bcaas ingested are supposed to be taken before, during and after a workout, so do you suggest i take 25-30 grams only on workout days, (7.5g in the morning and at night, 5g before and after workout, and 10g during or 2/3 through a workout. I do HST currently, so would do that 3x a week. do you suggest i continue to take 25-30 grams on off days, because i tend to do cardio from ddr for fun and to keep from gaining fat from my bulk, and take some bcaas then, or 10-15grams of bcaas on off days, and what about weekends? Keep in mind just because im mega dosing doesnt mean i dont want to ration. thanks!
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    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by E_Scapegoat
    i just got 700grams total of bcaa's from 2 bottles for 25$, and am interested in megadosing, but im 145lb with 9%bf, so, from what i heard, 20% of your lean body mass should be how many grams you should take for mega dosing, so it would be about 25-30grams for me. MOST of bcaas ingested are supposed to be taken before, during and after a workout, so do you suggest i take 25-30 grams only on workout days, (7.5g in the morning and at night, 5g before and after workout, and 10g during or 2/3 through a workout. I do HST currently, so would do that 3x a week. do you suggest i continue to take 25-30 grams on off days, because i tend to do cardio from ddr for fun and to keep from gaining fat from my bulk, and take some bcaas then, or 10-15grams of bcaas on off days, and what about weekends? Keep in mind just because im mega dosing doesnt mean i dont want to ration. thanks!
    There's no "magic" percentage, but your plan sounds very solid... especially with HST

    Keep us updated
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