How does "muscle wasting" occur?

[livingloca]

Can anyone give me some explanation on muscle wasting? How do you know if its happening to you? I'm curious if the intensity of my cardio could trigger that?

I lift 6x week; start with my weight training first for about 45 mins then I do cardio/HIIT (also 6x week) for 20 mins (5.6 then increase to 9.4) on the treadmill and then I might add the bike or Ellipt for an additional 10-15 mins if I feel up to it.

THanks!

[sixzebra]

Doing to much cardio can put you into a Catabolic state (as opposed to anabolic)- where you start to lose muscle vs putting/keeping it on.

If you feel you are losing muscle due to cardio, cut back a bit to only 3-4 days a week.

[livingloca]

but that's it..... how do i know if i'm losing muscle.... just visually?

I just didn't know if my not dropping weight/fat had anything to do with it. For as much cardio as i do i would think that i would see a drop in bf or the scale. I have been in a plateau for 2 months. I've straightened out my clean eating even more to see if it will change anything but am wondering what is holding back the progress? I should have dropped at least 5 pounds in the last 2 months for the amount of intense cardio i do everyday...

[gfundaro]

but that's it..... how do i know if i'm losing muscle.... just visually?

I just didn't know if my not dropping weight/fat had anything to do with it. For as much cardio as i do i would think that i would see a drop in bf or the scale. I have been in a plateau for 2 months. I've straightened out my clean eating even more to see if it will change anything but am wondering what is holding back the progress? I should have dropped at least 5 pounds in the last 2 months for the amount of intense cardio i do everyday...

You can tell visually, but also by tracking your lifting progress, muscular endurance, weight to a certain point (because if you're losing very quickly, chances are you're losing muscle). If your lifts are suffering and your legs can't keep up with your lungs, you might be overdoing it. But if your nutrition is in order, there's no reason for your body to break down its own muscular tissues

[Sunshineslynn]

well from what I read you most likely are in muscle wasting. Correct me if I am wrong but you are doing 6xweek of HIIT cardio? HIIT is intended not to be more than 2-3 sessions a week since its so hard on the CNS. I would reduce down to 3 sessions a week along with adding one moderate intensity. See what progress you make there. Also how many calories are you taking in? THat could lead to muscle wasting also not taking enough could be just as big of an issue as doing to much cardio.

[empresscat]

If the diet is dialed in, then there are two things to look at:

1) You may be burning muscle with too much cardio - HIIT is pretty good at preserving muscle, but as mentioned, is not meant to be done every day.

2) When was the last time you took a break? You may simply need time for your body to recover and rest in order to come back and start seeing results again. Take a week off every 2-3 months.

[amberlynn72]

Can anyone give me some explanation on muscle wasting? How do you know if its happening to you? I'm curious if the intensity of my cardio could trigger that?

I lift 6x week; start with my weight training first for about 45 mins then I do cardio/HIIT (also 6x week) for 20 mins (5.6 then increase to 9.4) on the treadmill and then I might add the bike or Ellipt for an additional 10-15 mins if I feel up to it.

THanks!

I am a cardio freak myself ..but looking toned and muscular is WAAAAy more important to me..i do 20-30 mins on the stair mill ..2x's a week and not on my lifting days.

[livingloca]

I know.... i love the "high" i get on doing my sprints. My stamina has been awesome. I added up my protein and cals yesterday. I got to my protein goal, but my cals lagged behind. so the only thing i can say is that i'm not eating enough for the amount of exercise i do. I haven't visually lost muscle and my strength on lifting has gone up.

I tried not doing HIIT this morning. I felt bored just running at the same speed. ugh -so i jumped on the bike for a while then got back on the treadmill. Guess i will not do my intervals on the treadmill for a week and see how my progress goes...

thanks!

[litlfalafelgirl]

it was reeeal easy to tell for me. my thighs got nice and skinny but when i flexed they looked the same - i always had very muscular legs (and now i got them back, yay!). also, my abs stopped feeling hard and defined when i flexed too. if you are muscle wasting, you'll know. if you can't notice, you're probably not, so very litle. also i was too tired to get through cardio routines anymore, that's how i knew i was in a severe catabolic state (plus loss of menstruation for several months).

[Donzi Las]

Muscle loss is usually a direct result of an inadequate supply of calories to sustain the aerobic work rather than aerobics itself. A bodybuilder who loses muscle during a period of aerobic training is not eating enough to compensate for the calories expended.

Also, aerobic exercise increases levels of myoglobin which is a protein that transports oxygen from the bloodstream into the muscle fibers. This increases the level and activity of the enzymes involved in the aerobic metabolism of glucose. Larger mitochondria (cellular furnaces where fat and other nutrients are burned) in greater numbers, increased levels of aerobic enzymes, coupled with increased blood flow all boosts the fat burning capabilities of the muscle fibers.

As for the cause of muscle waste, if you are consantly in the catabolic state of metabolism through repeated training, your body cannot produce the chemical substances and parts needed for repair. The stress of excessive training can exceed the body's ability to recover and adapt, which results in more catabolism (breakdown) than anabolism (buildup).

[livingloca]

It's kind of what i thought (although you had much more great information! than what i was aware of ).

A personal trainer friend of mine thought that maybe even going longer periods of time in cardio (doing 45 mins) daily would help shed the fatloss and only doing HIIT but maybe once a week (bc i'm probably going into an anaerobic state when i'm sprinting) AS LONG AS I keep my calories up to what I will need for the expenditure of my day-to-day activities/cardio. In otherwords, yes, i need to keep the cals up to meet my daily activity requirement.

Since i haven't really seen any strength lost (only on those days which i completely attribute to not eating correctly) i think i just haven't been eating enough.

[Jessica Bella]

This is definitely one of my fears. I am having a hard enough time gaining muscle, but I haven't seen my strength going anywhere but up. Still I am concerned that with all the weight lifting & cardio, I may not be seeing the gains I want because my body is wasting muscle instead of tapping into my fat stores...

What should I do?!

[Donzi Las]

This is definitely one of my fears. I am having a hard enough time gaining muscle, but I haven't seen my strength going anywhere but up. Still I am concerned that with all the weight lifting & cardio, I may not be seeing the gains I want because my body is wasting muscle instead of tapping into my fat stores...

What should I do?!

How much and how often are you eating? It's important to keep that fuel constant.

[Miranda]

This is definitely one of my fears. I am having a hard enough time gaining muscle, but I haven't seen my strength going anywhere but up. Still I am concerned that with all the weight lifting & cardio, I may not be seeing the gains I want because my body is wasting muscle instead of tapping into my fat stores...

What should I do?!

if your strength goes up it's not likely you are wasting muscle.

high-intensity work (~70-75% and up) uses carbs for fuel. if you don't eat adequately around workouts and/or eat too little in general for your activity level you can lose muscle tissue in the long run. the body is at its most vulnerable when you place physical stress on it.

what you use for fuel during a workout is less of importance than being in an energy deficit over a longer period of time if you want to lose fat. iow, you don't need to worry about 'burning fat' during the workout - you burn fat all day long.

[Jessica Bella]

How much and how often are you eating? It's important to keep that fuel constant.

Right now, I'm eating about every 2 to 3 hours, trying to get in about 5 to 6 small meals in a day, concentrating on protein. Last night, I was hungry before I went to bed and ended up eating some boiled egg whites before bed. My basic food diary & workout schedule is posted in my latest bodyblog, for more detail, I guess!

[Jessica Bella]

if your strength goes up it's not likely you are wasting muscle.

high-intensity work (~70-75% and up) uses carbs for fuel. if you don't eat adequately around workouts and/or eat too little in general for your activity level you can lose muscle tissue in the long run. the body is at its most vulnerable when you place physical stress on it.

what you use for fuel during a workout is less of importance than being in an energy deficit over a longer period of time if you want to lose fat. iow, you don't need to worry about 'burning fat' during the workout - you burn fat all day long.

So...in the case that high intensity burns mostly carbs for fuel, should I do lower-intensity cardio for longer periods of time to burn more fat? It seems like my cardio sessions are always pretty intense!

[Donzi Las]

Right now, I'm eating about every 2 to 3 hours, trying to get in about 5 to 6 small meals in a day, concentrating on protein. Last night, I was hungry before I went to bed and ended up eating some boiled egg whites before bed. My basic food diary & workout schedule is posted in my latest bodyblog, for more detail, I guess!

It looks like your eating the right stuff, just not enough of it. For building muscle = cal increase over maintenance, fat loss = calorie deficit.

Just a suggestion, but it did work for me..... I split it up. One week on a deficit, next on an increase. I continually cycled both carbs and calories, kept my protein at 1 gr x bw or higher. Like I said, only a suggestion. It worked for me but not every ones body will react the same.

Good luck!!

[Miranda]

So...in the case that high intensity burns mostly carbs for fuel, should I do lower-intensity cardio for longer periods of time to burn more fat? It seems like my cardio sessions are always pretty intense!

i don't think there is 'one' approach that works best.

high-intensity work burns more calories than low-intensity and very intense interval work creates a bigger EPOC - heightened burning afterwards.

and - it is not about what you use for fuel during a workout. it is about the overall energy balance over longer period of time.

imo burning fat is more about a good diet than cardio but everyone is different. also, it depends on how deep you are into a cut. you can't forever lower food intake.

[Jessica Bella]

It looks like your eating the right stuff, just not enough of it. For building muscle = cal increase over maintenance, fat loss = calorie deficit.

Just a suggestion, but it did work for me..... I split it up. One week on a deficit, next on an increase. I continually cycled both carbs and calories, kept my protein at 1 gr x bw or higher. Like I said, only a suggestion. It worked for me but not every ones body will react the same.

Good luck!!

Hmm...makes sense, but at the same time, I'm trying to both add muscle & cut my body fat percentage, particularly in time for a fitness modeling show in 8 weeks. I am slightly scared to up my calories more than what they already are...

Would you guys say that I should just stick with my current schedule & see where it can take me in 8 weeks?