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  1. #1
    ragz06 ragz06's Avatar
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    overtraing or not? diet?--any help appreciated

    I posted this over in workout programs forum, but it is also a general training/diet,etc question, & I figure the more that see it, the better chance I can get some knowledgable opinions.

    does this look like too much volume?

    monday--back & biceps:

    widegrip pulldowns-4x12
    machine cable rows-3x12
    bent over rows-3x12
    standing dumbell curls-3x12
    seated dumbell curls-3x12
    barbell curls-1 set of 21's

    tuesday--shoulders & forearms:

    side laterals-4x12
    seated dumbell (arnold) presses-4x12
    lying incline side laterals-2x15
    various wrist curls/reverse curls-6 x many as i can

    wed.--chest & triceps:

    decline dumbell presses-3x12
    incline dumbell presses-3x12
    pullovers-3x12
    close grip benches-3x12/15
    reverse grip pressdowns-3x12
    kickbacks-1-2x15-20

    thursday-legs:

    squats-3x10
    lunges-3x10
    bodyweight hack squats-3x10
    various calf/toe raises/presses-5 x failure

    then i start cycle over again, so it's like 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,etc--bodyparts get trained once every 5 days--i do take a day off here & there
    I go for a 1 mile jog (mod. pace--8 minutes) first in a.m on empty stomach 4 or 5 days a week
    I eat pretty clean--1800-2000 cals per day--lots of clean protein & veggies-every couple of weeks or so a big carb up day with lots of healthy bread( 100% stoneground wheat, no hfcs, lots of fiber in each slice) & natty pb
    btw-30 y/0 5'10" 185 lbs app. 12% bf
    I've been lifting pretty serious for the last several years (lifted lots for football in high school in late 80's/early 90's) & have been anywhere from 165 & 8-10% bf up to 190 & 14-15% bf--I feel like since I'm eating pretty well/healthy & lifting almost daily that i should be doing better

    I have been reading these forums for a year or so, and find tons of useful info, but lots of conflicting ideas. Sometimes I think I should be eating more, but when I do, all I seem to put on is soft mass. so then I lower cals a bit (back to what would seem like maint-2000/day) & dont seem to gain anything

    my goal is not to get much heavier, but big lean muscle(185lbs @ 5'10" can look awesome if it's lean muscle --busting out of shirt sleeves, etc)

    please tell me what you think of diet, split/training, etc


    as i said in the workout forum, sorry for such a long post, but this is my first, & I just wanted to get it all out there!!!

    thanks
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  2. #2
    ragz06 ragz06's Avatar
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    sorry--mistake- cals is 1800-2200 pere day, not 1800-2000 day thanks
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  3. #3
    Perma-bulker Andrew69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ragz06
    I go for a 1 mile jog (mod. pace--8 minutes) first in a.m on empty stomach 4 or 5 days a week
    I know a lot of people advocate cardio on an empty stomach (which I totally disagree with BTW, read the morning cardio sticky for more info), but seeing as how you are not gaining muscle I would drop this (not the jog, just empty stomach)

    Originally Posted by ragz06
    I feel like since I'm eating pretty well/healthy & lifting almost daily that i should be doing better
    Then something is obviously not working for you.
    What is your PWO nutrition like?
    Remember your not 18 anymore so things like PWO are increasingly important.
    1800-2000 cal per day is not enough to gain substanial muscle on IMHO. I dont like saying things like this because everyone is different, but aim for 2300 minimum and see if that makes a difference.

    I had a hard time gaining muscle (even at 18 y/o) not because I am a hard gainer, but because I was a under eater. Now at 32, I am making far better progress (and all my lifts are WAY above my best when I was young) than when 18.

    As far as your program, it is hard to say. Many will say you are doing too much,some will say not enough. Personally, I like HST. I sit down at the start of each cycle, work out my lifts for the entire cycle and then just lift. No more thnking, and it works great for me. (I did modify some of my weights up as I progressed though)
    You gotta love how sports will f*ck with ya, make you believe you can come back from an insurmountable deficit and then get kicked right in the nuts when you're almost there - Bluntdogg
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  4. #4
    ragz06 ragz06's Avatar
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    Andrew69---

    thanks a lot for your input--I'm going to try upping things a bit calorie wise--I have been so concerned about putting on fat instead of lean muscle that I am rationing things too much--even pre/post workout. Ive been thinking about upping those 2 meal cals specifically for a few weeks to see if i notice any difference. right now preworkout is 1/3 cup oats/1 cup carb countdown milk (70cals& 12g protein per cup) with 1 cup egg white omelette--total is app. 300 cals &35g protein)--post is shake of 200cals whey/oats-20g protein/25g carbs. any more thoughts anyone?? thanks in advance
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  5. #5
    Perma-bulker Andrew69's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ragz06
    Andrew69---

    thanks a lot for your input--I'm going to try upping things a bit calorie wise--I have been so concerned about putting on fat instead of lean muscle that I am rationing things too much--even pre/post workout.
    Anytime!
    Dont worry, Ive been there too. Iused to be so scared of putting on any fat (because I was fat enough, lol) that I just didnt eat enough. Now Ive got it through my thick skull that eating more will help me lose the gut, things are going great.
    Originally Posted by ragz06
    Ive been thinking about upping those 2 meal cals specifically for a few weeks to see if i notice any difference. right now preworkout is 1/3 cup oats/1 cup carb countdown milk (70cals& 12g protein per cup) with 1 cup egg white omelette--total is app. 300 cals &35g protein)--post is shake of 200cals whey/oats-20g protein/25g carbs. any more thoughts anyone?? thanks in advance
    To be honest, I never have a preWO shake. I train at night so my preWO meal is my dinner. I just make sure it is nice and balanced with plenty of carbs to fuel my WO (probably something like 30% pro/60% carbs/10% fat).
    My PWO shake contains about 60g carbs, 55g pro and 8 g fat.
    I throw in a cup of Kellogs "special K" into the blender until it is dust , add my whey and 500ml of 1.4% fat milk. Some times I add half a banana and a little extra milk depending on how I feel.

    I lift 3 times per week (HST) and to cardio 2-3 times per week (20 min HIIT) and Ive dropped 5% bf while only dropping 2 pounds of weight in the last 2 months. That equates to dropping 9.7 pounds of fat while adding 7.9 pounds of muscle.
    Last edited by Andrew69; 12-31-2004 at 11:52 PM.
    You gotta love how sports will f*ck with ya, make you believe you can come back from an insurmountable deficit and then get kicked right in the nuts when you're almost there - Bluntdogg
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  6. #6
    ragz06 ragz06's Avatar
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    wow, andrew--that is great--that is exactly what I want to do--stay roughly the same weight, but do that by dropping 10 lbs of fat & gaining 10 lbs of muscle

    I will try to incorporate some of these ideas on nutrition with some of the workout advice I have gotten over in the workout programs forum (I posted this message there also) & see what happens.

    man, you think you know what you're doing, been at it for a long time, your friends & relatives think you know what you're doing, only to find out that you dont!

    well, I guess we are always learnng, even us 30+ guys!!

    thanks
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  7. #7
    Registered User sickwitit's Avatar
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    I lift 3 times per week (HST) and to cardio 2-3 times per week (20 min HIIT) and Ive dropped 5% bf while only dropping 2 pounds of weight in the last 2 months. That equates to dropping 9.7 pounds of fat while adding 7.9 pounds of muscle.[/QUOTE]


    damn dude nice that **** is the best i love doing the hst and h.i.i.t
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  8. #8
    Registered User senithe363's Avatar
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    It does sound like you're training too hard. 4 -5 days in a row should be the maximum amount you're training. Do 4 days, take a day off, then start over.
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  9. #9
    ragz06 ragz06's Avatar
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    thanks senithe363,

    I'm currently working on a new routine--thinking about 1x per week per bodypart & heavier weight, lower reps & increase intensity (if I can)

    also re-working diet , specifically pre and post cardio

    anybody else---all ideas welcome & appreciated!!
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