leptigen by Avant Labs

**Par Deus** · 06-18-2002, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by latinmuscle
Hey Par,

when will we able to get the new version of Lipoderm?

A beta will hopefully be available in 3-6+ weeks, depending on how difficult sourcing some of the ingredients will be. I will have the formulation finalized, on paper, next week.

**Doogie** · 06-18-2002, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Par Deus

A beta will hopefully be available in 3-6+ weeks, depending on how difficult sourcing some of the ingredients will be. I will have the formulation finalized, on paper, next week.

Is it going to basically be the original Lipoderm but with a diuretic added to the mix, or will it be more revised (i.e. higher potency, etc.) ?

**latinmuscle** · 06-18-2002, 01:19 PM

Doogie
thes is a quote fro Par's web site:

LipoDerm Ultra -- this will contain a number of extra fat loss ingredients, including one from a class of compounds noted not only for their magnificent results, but also for their side-effects, which will benefit greatly from the localized delivery provided by our patent pending formula. In addition, it will contain a diuretic, so waiting until a week after you use it to see all of your results will be a thing of the past; for the ladies, it will have an ingredient to target cellulite; and finally, it will contain a number of other lipolytic agents.

**Doogie** · 06-19-2002, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by latinmuscle
Doogie
thes is a quote fro Par's web site:

LipoDerm Ultra -- this will contain a number of extra fat loss ingredients, including one from a class of compounds noted not only for their magnificent results, but also for their side-effects, which will benefit greatly from the localized delivery provided by our patent pending formula. In addition, it will contain a diuretic, so waiting until a week after you use it to see all of your results will be a thing of the past; for the ladies, it will have an ingredient to target cellulite; and finally, it will contain a number of other lipolytic agents.

I'm an idiot...I must have skipped right over that on Par's site...Thanks for the heads up latinmuscle...gets me more excited every time I hear about Par's new products :-)

**Smokinghawk** · 06-19-2002, 05:17 PM

Bump for "how does it compare to Bromocriptine, which ostensibly does the same thing?"

**MotorcityAl** · 06-19-2002, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by 97LT1
All of Par's products produce results. It's money well spent. Hell, i would have paid a doctor a grand to get rid of my lovehandles!!

My wife loves my love handles, but in my case, they are my ears.

**MotorcityAl** · 06-19-2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Jon DeVaul

I've used Par's products in the past("One" and Lipoderm-Y) and had great results(lost 25lbs. of fat and gained 5 lbs. of lean mass at the same time in the last 3 months. at age 52.) I'll be switching to "One+" soon and definately will try the new leptin product also. By the way I am competing, against that bulky fat guy I've looked at in the mirror for way too long.

Bump on this post from fellow "Masters Competitor".

**Bobo** · 06-19-2002, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Par Deus

So, only competitive bodybuilders have a legitimate reason to get below their bodyfat setpoint???

No, but I see where Rock is coming from. I love my refeeds and with the help of some ALA I can get back into ketosis rather quickly. So for me I don't see how this is useful for the price. I've used other products from you and they are top notch, but as for cutting, sticking with my diet and refeeds seems just fine. I'll just spend it on some Lipo-Y. I don't see what the difference is between this and just a planned refeed. I've read your leptin articles and I'm familiar with the concept, but how is this really going to help me if I just stick to a keto type diet? Is it just quicker? Will it completely eliminate the dropping of leptin levels and will it keep fat loss at a maximum? If thats the case then I can see the worth but yet again I can't see how this much differenct than a proper refeed.

**Doogie** · 06-19-2002, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by Bobo

No, but I see where Rock is coming from. I love my refeeds and with the help of some ALA I can get back into ketosis rather quickly. So for me I don't see how this is useful for the price. I've used other products from you and they are top notch, but as for cutting, sticking with my diet and refeeds seems just fine. I'll just spend it on some Lipo-Y. I don't see what the difference is between this and just a planned refeed. I've read your leptin articles and I'm familiar with the concept, but how is this really going to help me if I just stick to a keto type diet? Is it just quicker? Will it completely eliminate the dropping of leptin levels and will it keep fat loss at a maximum? If thats the case then I can see the worth but yet again I can't see how this much differenct than a proper refeed.

I believe Par's intentions are to limit the number of times (and severity ???) of one's refeeds. I may be wrong here, but I believe that is what is stated on his site:

LeptiGen is designed to trick your body into thinking it is being fed - without the calories that normally come with producing the fed state. This means we can now, not only completely avoid the problems associated with decreased leptin levels during dieting, such as a slow-down in fat loss, increased appetite, fatigue, and increased LBM loss, but we can do so without wasting time with refeeds, or even worse, going backwards by overdoing it, as is common.

That was taken from Par's site..

**Bobo** · 06-19-2002, 06:30 PM

I've read it already. But the majority of those problems are associated with low leptin levels. With a proper refeedind this can be elminated. Only when you get towards the end of a cutting cycle when refeeds are necessary more often is where this product could be really effective. But few people here get to that point. I just don't know if the benefits warrant the cost, especially if you follow a keto diet properly. But Par could clear it up and convince me...I'm just trying to see how beneficial this is for myself.

**Par Deus** · 06-19-2002, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Bobo

Will it completely eliminate the dropping of leptin levels and will it keep fat loss at a maximum?

Yes, it should.

Also, it is not just a matter of it making getting lean quicker -- keeping leptin levels up with refeeds will get more and more difficult as one gets leaner. Someone who can easily get to 8% would not need LeptiGen to get to 6%. Someone who hits the wall at 10 or 12% probably would. A classic endomorph absolutely would.

This is assuming we aren't using a bunch of illegal drugs, of course.

**little lats** · 06-20-2002, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Par Deus

Yes, it should.

Also, it is not just a matter of it making getting lean quicker -- keeping leptin levels up with refeeds will get more and more difficult as one gets leaner. Someone who can easily get to 8% would not need LeptiGen to get to 6%. Someone who hits the wall at 10 or 12% probably would. A classic endomorph absolutely would.

This is assuming we aren't using a bunch of illegal drugs, of course.

I've been fighting that damn 10-12 for 2 months. Mostly do to poor diet. If it can get me decrease my desire to eat I will be one happy mofo.

**Par Deus** · 06-20-2002, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Smokinghawk
Bump for "how does it compare to Bromocriptine, which ostensibly does the same thing?"

The short answer is, Bromo should be better for fatter people, LeptiGen should be better for leaner people.

**Billy Shears** · 06-20-2002, 03:53 PM

I have absolutely hit the wall on fat-loss. I have been dieting for 3.5 months and I haven't dropped any weight in 2 months! I'm currently around 14-15% (est.). I am frustrated and cannot think of anything else to do. I take ECA stacks, and reduced my carbs, everything. Everything I eat is of good quality and low GI. Basically, you can say I've done all the typical things one would do while trying to drop body fat.

I really wonder if this product is something of help for me. I'm absolutely getting burnt out by continuing to diet like this while no longer recieving any results.

Any comments?

**MotorcityAl** · 06-20-2002, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Billy Shears
I have absolutely hit the wall on fat-loss. I have been dieting for 3.5 months and I haven't dropped any weight in 2 months! I'm currently around 14-15% (est.). I am frustrated and cannot think of anything else to do. I take ECA stacks, and reduced my carbs, everything. Everything I eat is of good quality and low GI. Basically, you can say I've done all the typical things one would do while trying to drop body fat.

I really wonder if this product is something of help for me. I'm absolutely getting burnt out by continuing to diet like this while no longer recieving any results.

Any comments?

PM me, give me your stats (height, weight, etc.) level of training, and a sample of what and how much you eat on a daily basis. Of course this won't answer if Leptigen will help you, but there may be some mistakes you are making. Many people think they are eating correctly, when they actually are not.

**Wrestler152** · 06-20-2002, 05:15 PM

Yeah dude, if all else did indeed fail, you shoulda tried cardio like 6 days a week...if you dont drop weight doing that(1x60x6), you will never

**Par Deus** · 06-20-2002, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Billy Shears

Any comments?

If you have not been doing refeeds, you should probably explore that avenue first, to save some money, assuming you are not in a huge hurry to lose the fat. Basically, you would want to go off of your diet for a week, eating high carbs, low fat, then start doing regular refeeds.

**nick** · 06-21-2002, 09:05 AM

Whats bromo?

**Par Deus** · 06-21-2002, 12:38 PM

Bromocryptine -- a drug, and the subject of Lyle McDonald's new e-book.

**plornive** · 06-21-2002, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Par Deus
The short answer is, Bromo should be better for fatter people, LeptiGen should be better for leaner people.

Why? Is it because lean people are not leptin resistant? Would increasing leptin be much better than agonizing dopamine receptors?

**Par Deus** · 06-21-2002, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by plornive
Why? Is it because lean people are not leptin resistant? Would increasing leptin be much better than agonizing dopamine receptors?

Yes, to the first.

IMO, yes, to the second as well. I do not think dopamine and leptin are quite as closely tied in as Lyle proposes in his book. There are about 20 hormones that do a lot of thing similar to Leptin, and there are things that leptin does that Bromo does not in some of the studies. Basically, I think dopamine is just another signal, that mediates some of leptin's effects but not all. I will probably get around to writing something in detail on the subject eventually.

**primal1** · 06-25-2002, 07:25 PM

hey par, ive been struggling w/ 10% barrier for years. the second i get my calories low enough to get below 10% all muscle goes with. are you saying leptigen will prevent my muscle loss?

**Par Deus** · 06-25-2002, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by primal1
hey par, ive been struggling w/ 10% barrier for years. the second i get my calories low enough to get below 10% all muscle goes with. are you saying leptigen will prevent my muscle loss?

It should.

**Quiet Storm** · 06-25-2002, 10:53 PM

reading this thread at 2 AM i just wanted to blurt out a couple things so pardon me if i say something incoherent or stupid ( i probably will do both anyways

)

well, first off i notice 3 reactions to this leptigen product
1. im lookin forward to usin it
2. personally its not for me for any reason (financial doesnt suit goals)
3. this product is useless for such and such reason

well, its the third reaction that doesnt quite tickle my fancy, i mean everyone has different goals which can be met differently and leptigen provides a pretty simple and easy solution. for those unable to get their hands on bromo, unable to get past 10% without refeeding like a maniac or losing tons of muscle or bla bla bla this will be a great product

and also, regarding bromo, for some people the sides arent that pleasant, a friend got real excited about this stuff after reading lyle's book and got some, at low doses he got real nauseous, had no appetite and was always ready to vomit, as well when i saw him he was damn pale and gray, as well the stuff isnt legal without a prescription if thats what some people are concerned about, so bromo isnt for everyone

i hope something good came out of this post and i wont wake up to too much of a flame, its obvious i must sleep now so i think i should....after making a couple more incoherent posts, watch out for them at a thread near you

**MotorcityAl** · 06-26-2002, 03:15 PM

Sounds clear, concise, and to the point to me. As usual, good info.

(and even a little-albeit little-humor

)

**primal1** · 07-09-2002, 03:38 PM

i just got mine. i figured out why you lose your appetite. this stuff tastes like liquid *******. wow does this stuff taste bad!!! i mixed it 24 oz. of water w/ crystal lite lemonade and still could taste it. any ideas for a better recipe?

**primal1** · 07-09-2002, 03:40 PM

hey par, would it be ok to mix in 3 grams of creatine and 10 grams of glutamine with this stuff. and a cap of lpc.

**Par Deus** · 07-09-2002, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by primal1
hey par, would it be ok to mix in 3 grams of creatine and 10 grams of glutamine with this stuff. and a cap of lpc.

I do not see why it should hurt.

**Par Deus** · 07-09-2002, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by primal1
i just got mine. i figured out why you lose your appetite. this stuff tastes like liquid *******. wow does this stuff taste bad!!! i mixed it 24 oz. of water w/ crystal lite lemonade and still could taste it. any ideas for a better recipe?

Mix it in 6 ounces so you can just gulp it down real quick.

I personally mix it with kool-aid mix + Equal.

**2demon2** · 07-10-2002, 06:04 AM

If you're on a low-carb diet, that Equal (whether in packet or in Crystal Lite) can knock you out of ketosis.

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