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  1. #1
    Mentally Absent sdb212's Avatar
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    Question In your opinion - Can you gain mass on a low carb diet?

    ?????
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  2. #2
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    Originally Posted by sdb212 View Post
    ?????
    Excessive Calories = New Tissue Growth.

    You do the math.
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  3. #3
    Registered User pecan's Avatar
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    yes, i've done it. you will have to eat plenty of fats, but it's rather enjoyable imo. although, as you can guess from my username, i have an obsession for certain small, salty, and high fat foods :X
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  4. #4
    Mentally Absent sdb212's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pecan View Post
    yes, i've done it. you will have to eat plenty of fats, but it's rather enjoyable imo. although, as you can guess from my username, i have an obsession for certain small, salty, and high fat foods :X
    you weigh 105. what did you weigh before your bulk?
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  5. #5
    Alpha. Richie_Awesome's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdb212 View Post
    you weigh 105. what did you weigh before your bulk?
    Lol, ouch.

    Yeah, you can, but I'd rather have my carbs
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  6. #6
    peanutbutter strawser9's Avatar
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    fat cal = 9
    carbs = 4
    protein = 4...

    so if you eat say, 150 grams of carbs x 4 = 600 cals
    + 300 g protein x 4 = 1200 cals
    + 80 g fat x 9 = 720...

    this would be 2500 calories...it would be very difficult.
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  7. #7
    Registered User pecan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdb212 View Post
    you weigh 105. what did you weigh before your bulk?
    haha good one.

    i've lost 15 lbs. i easily fall back to this weight.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by strawser9 View Post
    fat cal = 9
    carbs = 4
    protein = 4...

    so if you eat say, 150 grams of carbs x 4 = 600 cals
    + 300 g protein x 4 = 1200 cals
    + 80 g fat x 9 = 720...

    this would be 2500 calories...it would be very difficult.
    What would be difficult about that?
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  9. #9
    Registered User RADIRON's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdb212 View Post
    ?????
    In a word, nope (especially without roids). Some believe that they can because when they eliminate carbs, they gain definition, which can give the illusion of more muscle mass. Also, when carbs are restricted, a person's bf% usually decreases, again, which gives the impression of muscle mass gain due to the fact that their LBM % has increased. In reality, they are not adding muscle but, rather, solely changing the percentages. If your goal is to add size, eat your complex carbs (and simple carbs pwo). Remember, carbs serve many purposes, one of the most important being, its protein-sparing effect. Also, being that you must create a caloric surplus to actually gain mass, you'd be hard pressed to get enough cals just from healthy fats and protein. I mean, seriously, how much protein can you consume a day before it gets tedious?

    Just my 2cents.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by sdb212 View Post
    you weigh 105. what did you weigh before your bulk?
    you jealous she looks 999x better than you??
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    Originally Posted by kebir View Post
    you jealous she looks 999x better than you??
    Wow, aren't you a hypocrite? Where is your picture at?
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  12. #12
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    I personally try to get away with the most carbs that I can.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by RADIRON View Post
    In a word, nope (especially without roids). Some believe that they can because when they eliminate carbs, they gain definition, which can give the illusion of more muscle mass. Also, when carbs are restricted, a person's bf% usually decreases, again, which gives the impression of muscle mass gain due to the fact that their LBM % has increased. In reality, they are not adding muscle but, rather, solely changing the percentages. If your goal is to add size, eat your complex carbs (and simple carbs pwo). Remember, carbs serve many purposes, one of the most important being, its protein-sparing effect. Also, being that you must create a caloric surplus to actually gain mass, you'd be hard pressed to get enough cals just from healthy fats and protein. I mean, seriously, how much protein can you consume a day before it gets tedious?

    Just my 2cents.

    theoretically, you're right. but having succeeded at this, i'll give my thoughts.

    the body is absolutely incredible at adapting. if you train yourself to live on glycogen and fats, nothing will energize you like a slice of cheese. on the other hand, if you're well-adapted to carbohydrates, a bagel is an incredible source of energy.

    as far as actually gaining, have you ever sat down with a can of macadamia nuts? it's not hard to eat 1000 calories, 7 carbs, and 10 grams of protein, especially if you spread that through the day.

    scrambled eggs, salmon, a whey smoothie, a salad with olive oil - you've hit 2500 calories at minimum before you know it with less than 20 carbs and an ideal amount of protein.
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  14. #14
    ThemoLife Alter Ego SupaNatural's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RADIRON View Post
    In a word, nope (especially without roids). Some believe that they can because when they eliminate carbs, they gain definition, which can give the illusion of more muscle mass. Also, when carbs are restricted, a person's bf% usually decreases, again, which gives the impression of muscle mass gain due to the fact that their LBM % has increased. In reality, they are not adding muscle but, rather, solely changing the percentages. If your goal is to add size, eat your complex carbs (and simple carbs pwo). Remember, carbs serve many purposes, one of the most important being, its protein-sparing effect. Also, being that you must create a caloric surplus to actually gain mass, you'd be hard pressed to get enough cals just from healthy fats and protein. I mean, seriously, how much protein can you consume a day before it gets tedious?

    Just my 2cents.
    Wow, carbs are the only macronutrient that have a protein-sparing effect? Fat can have the same properties. If you are ingesting enough calorically then 1) you stave off catabolism and 2) provided you are ingesting enough protein (who isn't on keto or any other carb-restricted diet though) there will be enough protein to provide the nitrogen essential for growth.

    Back in the day when I would run 2-3 keto periods a year, I was able not only to shed significant amounts of fat but put on lean muscle. Each time body comp was closely monitored. While I would end up losing about 2-4 times as much fat as I gained muscle for a net loss, I did gain muscle and would likely have been able to put on more if I was not on a slight cut/recomp.

    It is amazingly easy to get enough calories on such a diet, what with all that I could get my hands on. I was able to eat all the steak, eggs, bacon, sausage, etc. I wanted (okay, not really I still had to watch total caloric intake) and not regret a thing. Personally, though, I do not have a sweet tooth and it was easy for myself to adapt so it was nothing. It is not so for many others. Meats, dairy and veggies was more than enough to sustain me and a year later my HDL:LDL ratio is 1:2 which is more than healthy while my overall cholesterol levels were actually below baseline levels. Only thing I do regret is not monitoring cholesterol levels back then.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by Supa Freek 420 View Post
    Wow, carbs are the only macronutrient that have a protein-sparing effect? Fat can have the same properties. If you are ingesting enough calorically then 1) you stave off catabolism and 2) provided you are ingesting enough protein (who isn't on keto or any other carb-restricted diet though) there will be enough protein to provide the nitrogen essential for growth.

    Back in the day when I would run 2-3 keto periods a year, I was able not only to shed significant amounts of fat but put on lean muscle. Each time body comp was closely monitored. While I would end up losing about 2-4 times as much fat as I gained muscle for a net loss, I did gain muscle and would likely have been able to put on more if I was not on a slight cut/recomp.

    It is amazingly easy to get enough calories on such a diet, what with all that I could get my hands on. I was able to eat all the steak, eggs, bacon, sausage, etc. I wanted (okay, not really I still had to watch total caloric intake) and not regret a thing. Personally, though, I do not have a sweet tooth and it was easy for myself to adapt so it was nothing. It is not so for many others. Meats, dairy and veggies was more than enough to sustain me and a year later my HDL:LDL ratio is 1:2 which is more than healthy while my overall cholesterol levels were actually below baseline levels. Only thing I do regret is not monitoring cholesterol levels back then.
    I'm interested in this. Can you describe your diet a little more? Was it a straight-up keto diet?
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by hobscrk777 View Post
    I'm interested in this. Can you describe your diet a little more? Was it a straight-up keto diet?

    Pretty much CKD, calories just around maintenance. Refeeds twice a week. IIRC a regular day would consist of:

    1: 4 eggs and bacon or sausage, or 6 eggs, cheese & salsa
    2: protein w/coconut milk & ground flax seed
    3: fatty meat and 2-3 servings vegetable of choice
    1 hr preworkout: coconut milk & 1/2 serving whey
    postworkout: whey, fruit and oats
    5: meal 3
    6: full fat cottage cheese w/ground flax seed or meal 2
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    Originally Posted by pecan View Post
    yes, i've done it. you will have to eat plenty of fats, but it's rather enjoyable imo. although, as you can guess from my username, i have an obsession for certain small, salty, and high fat foods :X

    i see london, i see france, i see pecan's underpants...nice by the way! =)
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by hobscrk777 View Post
    What would be difficult about that?
    for one, 90% of people have trouble eating enough protein.>
    for 2, 90% of people have trouble eating enough HEALTHY fats>
    (^^^not to mention trouble eating more to make up for the carbs they aren't putting in)
    for 3, 90% of people cant time their foods correctly
    for 4, 90% of people can't stay away from those yummy empty carbs



    this is why it would be difficult to do on a diet such as this.
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  19. #19
    musclar smurfette Sunshineslynn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sdb212 View Post
    ?????
    Here is a very good article for you to read it answers alot of questions that most have about carbs. I tend to think the Akins and Keto could not be that healthy yes you will drop weight on them but you can loose a healthier way since your body needs carbs. Probably going to take 2-3posts for the article since its long.

    Carbs to muscle: seven ways to enhance your muscle glycogen stores without increasing bodyfat
    Flex, June, 2005 by Chris Aceto
    We constantly tell bodybuilders about the muscle-building benefits of protein. It plays a direct role in muscle development by providing the body with amino acids. However, looking at the larger picture, muscle growth is not solely dependent on protein consumption. Carbohydrate consumption also plays an active role. In fact, the amount of carbohydrates stored inside muscles--called muscle glycogen--can determine whether or not muscles remain in an anabolic, or muscle-building, state. How vital are well-stocked glycogen stores? Protein intake above and beyond what reputable nutritionists say is "enough" won't boost muscle mass if glycogen stores are too low. On the other hand, if glycogen stores are full, chances of faster recovery and improved growth markedly increase.

    So, why not simply load up on carbs in hopes of getting huge? Because consuming too many carbs creates the potential of increasing bodyfat. Taking steps to ensure that carbs are stored in muscles rather than as fat is half the battle in building mass without turning into the Pillsbury Doughboy. This month, I'll explain how to build glycogen stores without increasing bodyfat stores.

    1 | Eat six meals a day Eating multiple daily meals leads to greater glycogen storage with less fat storage. For example, if you eat 450 grams (g) of carbohydrates daily divided among three meals, your body will digest those carbs in 150 g increments. Some will head toward muscles to make muscle glycogen, and some will be stored as fat. Splitting the same daily amount evenly among six meals (75 g per meal) will take away from their ability to uptick fat storage, leaving more for muscle glycogen. The result of splitting the same number of carbs among six meals a day is greater glycogen storage for better growth and fewer carbs stored as bodyfat.

    | Honor your training Carbohydrates eaten before you train help power your workout and spare the breakdown of muscle tissue. Therefore, pretraining carbs have a job to do: fuel your training. Consequently, relatively few are stored as bodyfat. Carbohydrates eaten after training refill muscles with glycogen before having any ability to increase bodyfat storage. Carbs consumed before and after training protect your body against muscle breakdown and support glycogen levels, ultimately helping your body to grow. When carbs are performing an anabolic role--supporting growth--they are not making you fat.

    3 | Determine your insulin sensitivity No, you don't have to take a blood test. Insulin sensitivity is a fancy description for a body's ability to handle carbohydrates. If carbs make you tired or tend to quickly smooth out your physique, you're likely to be more "insulin resistant" than an average person. For our purposes, this means that you likely pump out more insulin than someone who gets a lot of energy from carbs or does not gain bodyfat quickly by eating them.

    If you are insulin resistant, you should stay away from sugar, juices, refined carbs (such as rice cakes), cold cereals, mashed potatoes and white rice. Instead, choose slower-burning carbs, such as red potatoes, yams, brown rice, pasta and buckwheat noodles. Their slower-burning character tends to facilitate the storage of glycogen instead of the storage of bodyfat by keeping insulin release at moderate levels.

    4 | Alter your carb intake When you eat fewer carbs, your body undergoes all kinds of changes. Interestingly, your muscles start to "crave" carbohydrates. With fewer carbs, the ability of your muscles to utilize them--rather than store them as bodyfat--actually increases. When you return to eating more carbs, virtually all of them are stored in your muscles, making your physique look fuller and more impressive. This increase in glycogen stores triggers and supports protein synthesis, meaning that your muscles grow. So, pulling back on your carb intake for two or three days can actually help you grow. Just be sure to keep your protein intake a little higher during a carb cutback to protect against potential muscle breakdown, which is sometimes associated with a decrease in carbohydrate intake.

    5 | Supplement with alpha-lipoic acid Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) is an antioxidant supplement that also improves muscle glucose uptake by mimicking the action of insulin on muscle cells. The benefit is that carbs are more readily removed from blood and stored in muscles as glycogen. Greater glycogen storage translates into more energy and muscle growth, and it also staves off bodyfat storage. Try taking 100-200 milligrams two or three times a day with higher carb meals.

    6 | Try acetic acid Acetic acid is found in vinegar. Yes, what you use on salads and vegetables. Touted in folk remedies, vinegar actually does have some benefits. Through the ages, vinegar has been used to increase appetite, offset fatigue and boost mineral absorption. Vinegar increases the absorption of calcium and, in animal studies, vinegar has been shown to augment glycogen formation--therein lies "offsets fatigue." Vinegar may help prevent fatigue by improving the body's ability to load carbohydrates into muscles (rather than allowing the carbs to flow into fat-storing pathways, which contributes to a lack of energy and vitality). Try adding three or four tablespoons of vinegar to your pre- and posttraining meals.
    "You can't take some pill and hope your fat will jump off of you like you have the plague. You must work out and eat clean to have a lean, green, fighting machine." Sunshineslynn

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    musclar smurfette Sunshineslynn's Avatar
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    7 | Use omega-3s Omega-3 fatty acids are the fats in fish oil and flaxseed oil that help muscles become more receptive to the anabolic effects of insulin. Your body releases insulin when you consume carbohydrates, and insulin has an anabolic effect, helping to push carbohydrates into muscles. At the same time, insulin also has a bodyfat-storing effect. It can push those same carbohydrates toward fat storage and increase enzymes that help manufacture bodyfat.

    Omega-3 fatty acids can help create an anabolic effect by allowing muscles to "pull" carbs in--with the help of insulin. This not only increases glycogen storage, but it also minimizes the ability of insulin to store carbs as bodyfat. Take 5-6 g of omega-3s per day.

    CARB CONUNDRUM

    Carbohydrates present bodybuilders with their biggest dietary dilemma. It's virtually impossible to get muscles to grow without carbs, but it's hard to keep bodyfat stores from swelling with them. Bodybuilders sometimes need a little help to coax their bodies to use carbs for muscle building rather than for bodyfat. If you follow the seven suggestions presented here, you'll be able to make much more muscle--and far less bodyfat--out of the carbs you're consuming on your bodybuilding diet.
    "You can't take some pill and hope your fat will jump off of you like you have the plague. You must work out and eat clean to have a lean, green, fighting machine." Sunshineslynn

    'If you always do what you always did, then you will always get what you always do'


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    yes
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    Originally Posted by sdb212 View Post
    ?????
    You should've asked the keto-ers ;-) Luckily, I am one, and I have gained weight and lost body fat and gained inches and lost them and my lifts have gone up but never decreased, so that's a great thing. Keto has definitely helped me recomp. If you want to build, you eat an excess of calories and carbup more often. If you want to lose, you do the opposite. If you want to recomp...well, you'd better be patient and experiment a lot. And yes, I've done 40/40/20, and yes I lost body fat, but I lost just as much body fat on keto while increasing my lifts and never feeling bloated (except when I carbup, go figure).
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    Is it summer yet? rotlex's Avatar
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    Yes, absolutely, and don't let anyone tell you differently, or that you "need" carbs, LOL.

    I've gained, lost, maintained, whatever almost ALWAYS using a very low carb diet. Why? It's easier for me. Easier to eat clean. Easier to eat higher calories without adding too much additional body fat, and MUCH easier to avoid cravings for garbage.

    The problem I see with most that try to do this, is they are afraid to EAT FAT. If you drop carbs, you, MUST increase fats. Easier said than done? Not if you believe the only fats your allowed to eat are fish oil, olive oil and "healthy" fats. I live off of and eat all fats with the exception of trans fats and have been doing so for the past 5 years or so. Results? I dropped over 100lbs, came off my BP medication, and totally normalized my cholesterol and all other blood work numbers.

    Sorry for rambling, but yeah, you can do it all and remain very healthy living a low carb high fat lifestyle.
    Steve

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