Read This before buying Usnic Acid

**matpal** · 06-13-2002, 05:02 PM

What if I told you that the initial success of realsupplements.net was successful enough to expand? I was going to go into 1-test, but I wanted something a bit more exclusive (and higher demand). So, would you all be interested in sodium usinate? It would mean no more mega dosing with usnic acid, and wondering if you're doing it right. No more arguing abou down-regualtion and absorbability. You could pop 100mg with your Wal-mart ECA and be set.
It would most likely be in powder from, as I do not wish to incur more sunk costs on capping, and doing it yourself is just plain ghetto besides tedius. So tell me what you guys think befor I blow my life savings.

**brwnsuga** · 06-13-2002, 05:07 PM

If you're going to do it, please cap. it. I assume you would be purchasing it from Syntrax, correct? I really would like caps. of 100mg or 200mg each.

**brwnsuga** · 06-13-2002, 05:13 PM

If you decide to go with the same company you used to cap. before, I assume you could skip the testing process as you will have pure Sodium Usniate so costs would be cheaper.

**Sabercat** · 06-13-2002, 05:18 PM

I think your UA is just fine Matpal. I'm on day 4 at 600mg per day and it is kickingmyeverlovinass!

**matpal** · 06-13-2002, 05:18 PM

Actually, the testing and weighing is part of the standard process, so I could not opt out of it. This wastes a decent amount, and there is also a large portion of the active ingredient left useless because its basically drown out by fillers and what-not. So if I bought 100 kilos, the useable portion might only be 80-90 kilos. Still, alot, but not as much as if I just sold the powder.

**matpal** · 06-13-2002, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Sabercat
I think your UA is just fine Matpal. I'm on day 4 at 600mg per day and it is kickingmyeverlovinass!

That part of the point. though. You caould take literally half as much (300mg) and have your ass getting kicked, which means that it lasts much longer for you, is more cost-efficient to you, and is more profit-friendly for me.

**Sabercat** · 06-13-2002, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by matpal
is more cost-efficient to you

I'm all about value. Lets do that then!

**brwnsuga** · 06-13-2002, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by matpal
That part of the point. though. You caould take literally half as much (300mg) and have your ass getting kicked, which means that it lasts much longer for you, is more cost-efficient to you, and is more profit-friendly for me.

It's really up to you matpal, as you have to see how this will affect the amount of consumers. I don't see it turning any of us away as we are not shy of capping, but you will lose some sales from those that are unwilling to do this.

**Todd** · 06-13-2002, 05:36 PM

Id say go for the sodium usinate...lipokinetix did a lot more for me than UA + tricuts.

**matpal** · 06-13-2002, 05:58 PM

I would really like to have the stuff capped, but to do this amount would be an additional $3,000 or so; A hefty investment for someone who just graduated college and should be saving for a house down payment.

**Kms74** · 06-13-2002, 06:36 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but i'll buy the powder and cap it myself. Just let us know when you get it

kms74

**RockECU** · 06-13-2002, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by matpal

That part of the point. though. You caould take literally half as much (300mg) and have your ass getting kicked, which means that it lasts much longer for you, is more cost-efficient to you, and is more profit-friendly for me.

What information are you basing this on?? If you wouldn't mind, could you please forward it to me or post it here. Thanks.

Also, LipoK has not been in production for about a year and a half (if not longer - but at least a year)... So you'll be getting sodium usniate that is AT LEAST a year old, if not longer.. Not to mention, do you know the shelf life of sodium usniate?

**matpal** · 06-14-2002, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by RockECU

What information are you basing this on?? If you wouldn't mind, could you please forward it to me or post it here. Thanks.

Also, LipoK has not been in production for about a year and a half (if not longer - but at least a year)... So you'll be getting sodium usniate that is AT LEAST a year old, if not longer.. Not to mention, do you know the shelf life of sodium usniate?

I was basing that statement on the amount of active ingredient in LipoK (100mg). Many people wrongly assume that isnce most of Syntrax's products says a serving size is base on 2-3 caps, that the ingredient amounts are according to 3 caps, when actually they are according to 2 caps. So, LipoK really contained 50mg sodium usinate per cap, for a total of 100mg per dose.

Also, according to my encapsulator and bottler (who also makes Walgreen's vitamins) raw materials are good for at least 3 years, and if capped, longer, since the capsules can act as a insulator/preserver.

**Serpentstrike** · 06-14-2002, 06:18 AM

I have 5 bottles of LipoK and I'm pretty sure it is 100mg sodium usinate per cap. 600mg is my typical dose per day. I'll check the label when I get home.

**Smokinghawk** · 06-14-2002, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Serpentstrike
I have 5 bottles of LipoK and I'm pretty sure it is 100mg sodium usinate per cap. 600mg is my typical dose per day. I'll check the label when I get home.

It is...100 PER CAP. I have the bottle right in front of me.

**karina** · 06-14-2002, 09:07 AM

hey matpal,

how about getting some yohimbine hcl to sell, seeing that Par and kilosprts don't sell it anymore

**Gonzo** · 06-14-2002, 09:28 AM

I would be up for some sodium usniate.

**RockECU** · 06-14-2002, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Smokinghawk

It is...100 PER CAP. I have the bottle right in front of me.

As do I... I don't know where matpal is getting his info about dosing ranges of 2-3 caps.. On the bottle the dosing is either 1-2 caps.

Have you talked to Derek Cornelius at all?? Who have you talked to regarding acquiring this sodium usniate? I'd suggest you wait until you have more basic information, not just availability of a product.

I'm not trying to attack you by saying this, I'm just offereing advice, but it would be nice if you cleaned up all the misinformation on your site about UA and all the grammatical errors as well..

**matpal** · 06-14-2002, 11:37 AM

There is only 1 grammar error that I know of on my site. The others, in the research articles, I really cannot change because of copyright laws and what not.

That was my bad on the reference of 2-3 caps. I ment 1-2, but I stand by my assertion of the amount of active ingredient per cap.
By your measurements, then there is also 100mcg of T2 per cap. Think about it. 600mcg of T2 per day would make you waste away by itself. I almost positive that the amounts listed on the labels are for 2 caps, not one.

I am talking with a Syntrax rep as we speak, so availability is not an issue, but what is the issue is if I want to actually buy it or not (they stated that they rae only selling to already established vendors/manufacturers to cover themselves leagally). I can also ask here about the true dosing of LipoK and other Syntrax products since there seems to be some confusion.

**1fast400** · 06-14-2002, 12:08 PM

I'd proceed with caution. Usnic acid seems to fly under radar. Sodium Usinate might be a different story. Good luck either way.

**RockECU** · 06-14-2002, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by matpal
There is only 1 grammar error that I know of on my site. The others, in the research articles, I really cannot change because of copyright laws and what not.

#1 - I'm not talking about the research articles, I'm talking about YOUR WORK.. I'm not an english major, but there are more than 1 grammar error on your site.

Example #1 - First Page
"Company Info:

It is then sent to California for encapsulation, bottling, testing, and packaging. I am using the same manufacturer that makes all of Walgreen's and Eckert's brand vitamins and supplements, so you can assure that quality is paramount."

-how about that Eckert's is ECKERD'S, and ...YOU CAN BE REST ASSURED... not you can assure..

#2 - First page
"It will be sold in bulk lots, most likely 20 grams, so that you could use it to make your own transdermal application, which is much more effective than oral pills."

...most likely 20 grams, so that YOU CAN use it to ...

#3,4 - Products Page
"Reports have indicated that Usnic acid is the only available herbal ingredient to show increase thermogenesis on a prolonged basis. Unlike ephedra products, which simply suppress appetite and in turn, slows metabolism and heat production. "

...to show AN increase IN thermogenesis...
...and in turn, SLOW metabolism....

#5 - Products Page

"Usnic Acid causes the body to utilize and increase the production of ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) through a process known biochemically as �oxidative phosphorylation�. Now to maintain its normal supply of ATP, the body steps up its natural production."

-natural production of what??... maybe its should be ITS OWN

"Thus, increasing the body�s metabolic rate and wasting an incredible amount of calories (released as heat) to regulate this up keeping process. "

#6 -
...to regulate this UP-KEEPING process...

"Picture this as a leaking fuel line of an automobile, the fuel being the fat, the engine being the human body organism. As fat is being wasted through the leaking fuel-line, the body maintains its regular function until fuel reserves (Fat stores) are completely depleted. "

#7-
..fuel reserves (fat (lower case F) stores)...

"In fact, uncouplers (Usnic acid) utilize fat as the dominant source of calories (95% from fat, 3% from carbs and 2% from protein (want to get rid of the stubborn fat? Here you go.) Reports have indicated that Usnic acid is the only available herbal ingredient to show increase thermogenesis on a prolonged basis unlike ephedra products, which simply suppress appetite and in turn slows metabolism and heat production. This means that over time, your body will not adjust to and slow down the rate of fat loss like it does with the typical ECA stack."

#8 (Products Page STILL)
-...of calories (95% from fat, 3% from carbs and 2% from protein (....) - Interesting use of the parenthases (sp?) there...

#9,10,11 - same paragraph..
-...to show AN increase IN thermogenesis FOR A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME, UNLIKE ephedra ...
...and in turn, SLOW metabolsim and heat production..
(how does ephedra slow heat production by the way?)
...will not adjust to OR slow down the rate of fat loss...

PRODUCT FAQ page now..

"Q: Why do you call it HEAT?

A: HEAT (Usnic Acid) is a Mitochondrial Uncoupler. These substances work by increasing calories being burned, by making the body produce more ATP (energy) to maintain its energy requirements. The extra ATP that is produced is then released in the form of body heat, making you feel slightly hotter than normal. "

-a mitochondrial uncoupler??? what... try an UNCOUPLER OF OXIDATIVE PHOSPHORYLATION... That whole paragraph is ****!

"Q: Should I combine HEAT with an ECA Like Xenadrine?

A: This is an interesting question, because there is basically two schools of thought on the matter: 1. Yes, you can combine ECA with Usnic Acid, and in doing so, you can combat the fatigue associated with Usnic Acid, making workouts more intense, and therefore, more more fat. 2. No, you should not. By introducing an outside energy source (ECA) while taking Usnic Acid, you are defeating the purpose of making your body work harder. Since the body is receiving an outside source for energy, the full potential of Usnic Acid does not become apparent because you then do not have to tap into fat stores for energy. If you do decide to combine HEAT with an ECA, make sure that it has Acetyl-L Carnitine, which can help mobilize fat for energy use. With that being said, I would recommend it. Use a good ECA such as Xenadrine or Ripped Fuel. They will help control hunger and give you more motivation and energy to work out."

ECA - an outside energy source?? WHAT??!! ECA IS NOT an outside energy source.
-not to mention you're probably treading on very dangerous ground by RECOMMENDING AN ECA w/o even acknowledging the risks by taking them.... Maybe a lawsuit will make you learn..

Originally posted by matpal
That was my bad on the reference of 2-3 caps. .[/B]

-Will that be your excuse as well when more cases of liver problems/failure start to show up in hospital too (possibly from sodium usniate ingestion???) - that's MY BAD man.. I'm sorry..
-perhaps you should research things a little more thoroughly before jumping in on things such as sodium usniate (even usnic acid for that matter - as your explanations on your website aren't the most accurate of info to partake in)

Originally posted by matpal
I ment 1-2, but I stand by my assertion of the amount of active ingredient per cap..[/B]

-really?? on what grounds?? what info do you have?? Again, I would really like to see this info... Preferrably from studies, or Derek Cornelius himself, not some rep who probably has no clue what he's talking about...

Originally posted by matpal
By your measurements, then there is also 100mcg of T2 per cap. Think about it. 600mcg of T2 per day would make you waste away by itself. [/B]

-they're not measurements... it's on the darn bottle! so yes, people were taking 600mcg of t2/day... maybe that's what liver problems LipoK stemmed from, I don't know.. maybe that's why it was so effective for people too?? Biotest's T2 has 50mcg /cap... Is that gonna make you waste away too??

Originally posted by matpal
I almost positive that the amounts listed on the labels are for 2 caps, not one. [/B]

-I don't want (neither does anybody else) "I almost positive..." they want yes/no, facts... The bottle says AMOUNT PER CAPSULE..

Originally posted by matpal
I am talking with a Syntrax rep as we speak, so availability is not an issue, but what is the issue is if I want to actually buy it or not (they stated that they rae only selling to already established vendors/manufacturers to cover themselves leagally). [/B]

-Refer above to the Rep issue... Speak w/DEREK CORNELIUS himself.. Doesn't it make you wonder why they only want to sell it to established vendors to cover themselves legally?? Or are you just that ignorant??

Originally posted by matpal
I can also ask here about the true dosing of LipoK and other Syntrax products since there seems to be some confusion. [/B]

-Why hasn't this been asked already..??..

-You're taking a BIG CHANCE by even thinking about selling sodium usniate.. Because if it actually does cause liver problems/etc, the FDA/whoever will find out about you, the sodium usniate AND the USNIC ACID and most likely bring them down together... Ruining it for the rest of us.. ANd I for one would be EXTREMELY PISSED OFF, as UA is the most effective fat burner I've ever used, and I'd like to be able to use it again when I'd like to..

Perhaps you should consider the following as a list of priorities for your company rather than sourcing sodium usniate at this time.

#1-strengthening your business skills, and your knowledge about uncouplers.
#2- sell out of your usnic acid at least once..
#3-get the ACTUAL active ingredient info about sodium usniate instead of blatantly making assumptions like you're doing.
#4-talk to Derek Cornelius, only a rep IF they have ALL THE ANSWERS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.. THE EXACT ANSWERS...

I'm done.

**1fast400** · 06-14-2002, 04:15 PM

ouch

**matpal** · 06-14-2002, 04:30 PM

#1
There are no Ekerds in my neck of the woods, so I have not actually seen the name in print, nor do I really care about the correct spelling.

Your suggestion of "be rest assured" makes no sense what-so-ever.
What I have "so you can assure that quality is paramount" is grammatically correct.
#2
Again, what I have is grammatically correct. Your suggestion could be used, but it is simply a matter of preference.

#3
This one is wrong. Increase should be past tense. (increased)

#4
You are wrong on this as well. It should not be what you suggested because of subject/verb agreement. It is correctly stated as-is.

#5
Simple sentence structure tells you that "natural production" is a direct object of ATP. Again, this is correct. You are wrong.

$6
Yes, I do need a hyphen in there.

#7
Yes, it should be lower-case.

#8
I could have double-parenthesis there as in : (( ) ( )), or [( )]but it really does not matter.

#9
If you actually read the article, it simply states that Ephedra can slow heat production/metabolism because it can greatly reduce food intake and the body can build a defense to it.

#10.
You are wrong on this suggestion again. You do not say "That product slow metabolism." You say "That product slows metabolism."

#11
You are wrong again. Simple sentence structure dictates cause and effect. Your suggestion would only be proper for listing 2 different, unrelated topics.

You are right, however, in that you are no English major. Before you critique or edit something, you should know how the process works, or at least be correct in your suggestions. I would also be willing to bet that my business skills are quite more advanced than the average person.

ECA can be considered an outside enrgy source. Did your body produce that ephedra on your own? No. It came from OUTSIDE the body.

A lawsuit? Are you threatening me? I have adequate disclaimers and then there is the concept of inherant risk.

OXIDATIVE PHOSPHORYLATION is what the process is called. It works with the mitochondria. Again you are wrong, and your paragraph is ****.

Why is Derek Cornelious the only one in the company who knows what was in the products? That is this person's job: to know everything about everything within the walls of Syntrax.

Am I ignorant? Well, why would they sell an ass-load of raw materials to anyone who is not a supplement manufacturer? Ignorance is pre-conceived notions that one, such as yourself, is the definative authority on things, while belittling other.

QUOTE:
-they're not measurements... it's on the darn bottle! so yes, people were taking 600mcg of t2/day... maybe that's what liver problems LipoK stemmed from, I don't know.. maybe that's why it was so effective for people too?? Biotest's T2 has 50mcg /cap... Is that gonna make you waste away too??

This makes mo sense what-so-ever. Why would 50mcg make you waste away? You sound angry and you are trying to grasp straws in an already poorly constructed arguement.

If I am blatantly making assumptions about dosing, then so are you.

Selling out my allowance of UA has nothing to do with product expandsion. Do you think any business waits until their inventroy and assets are zero befor expanding?

Next time I want to post something, should I run it by you first to see if everything is OK? Maybe I should attach a research thesis and a grammar handbook with it so your "corrections" can actually be called so.

**RockECU** · 06-14-2002, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by matpal
#1
There are no Ekerds in my neck of the woods, so I have not actually seen the name in print, nor do I really care about the correct spelling.

-having correct spelling for other businesses is just a matter of showing that business respect.. no matter where it is located..
you wouldn't like it if i called you matpale would you??

Your suggestion of "be rest assured" makes no sense what-so-ever.
What I have "so you can assure that quality is paramount" is grammatically correct.

-assure - from The American Heritage Dictionary " 1 - to inform confidently , with a view to removing doubt. 2-to cause to feel sure, convince 3 - to give confidence to, reassure 4 -to make certain, ensure 5-to make safe, secure... "

then - 1-"so you can inform confidently that quality is paramount..." - no... the customer doesn't want to inform confidently
2"so you can cause to feel sure that quality is paramount " - no..
3"so you can reassure that quality is paramount" - no...
4"so you can make certain" - maybe, but no...
5 just wouldn't work
Perhaps it should have been worded, so you can BE assured... The customer doesn't want to ASSURE YOU of anything, THEY want to be assured.. See what i'm saying...

You are right, however, in that you are no English major. Before you critique or edit something, you should know how the process works, or at least be correct in your suggestions. I would also be willing to bet that my business skills are quite more advanced than the average person.

-yes, i made mistakes as well, but so did you.. You proved the point that you didn't even proofread your work before posting it.. A good business-man proofreads an advertisement before it is published, plain and simple.
-It doesn't take great business skills to get raw materials from a supplier, cap it and ship it out..

ECA can be considered an outside enrgy source. Did your body produce that ephedra on your own? No. It came from OUTSIDE the body.

-whatever man... you keep thinking that ok... it's obvious you're thoroughly confused about energy... because even you stated.... "by making the body produce more ATP (energy) to maintain its energy requirements" ECA has no caloric value, thus can provide the body with no energy.. it is a stimulant, plain and simple.. i'll comment no further on that...

A lawsuit? Are you threatening me? I have adequate disclaimers and then there is the concept of inherant risk.

-no, i'm not threatening you at all... just trying to inform you is all..

OXIDATIVE PHOSPHORYLATION is what the process is called. It works with the mitochondria. Again you are wrong, and your paragraph is ****.

-right... you call it... "A: HEAT (Usnic Acid) is a Mitochondrial Uncoupler."... a mitochondrial uncoupler would suggest the actual uncoupling of the mitochondria of a cell, or breaking the mitochondria apart. An uncoupling agent UNCOUPLES a PROCESS... not MITOCHONDRIA... To be specific, an uncoupling agen UNCOUPLES THE PROCESS OF OXIDATIVE PHOSPHORYLATION.. Mitochondria IS NOT a PROCESS.. OXIDATIVE PHOSPHORYLATION IS.. Oxidative phosphorylation works WITHIN the mitochondria, NOT WITH it.. Again, your understanding of uncouplers is obviously lacking.

Why is Derek Cornelious the only one in the company who knows what was in the products? That is this person's job: to know everything about everything within the walls of Syntrax.

-Ok, for your sake, I hope you're right about that.. because I know of people who have jobs that still don't know what they're doing..

Am I ignorant? Well, why would they sell an ass-load of raw materials to anyone who is not a supplement manufacturer? Ignorant is pre-conceived notions that one, such as yourself, is the definative authority on things, while belittling other.

-I have said this many times before in other posts, but I am FAR from being an authority on "things" or uncoupling agents,etc... But it is obvious from what I KNOW to be fact about uncoupling agents,etc (through many hours of researching - something you should look into by the way), and what you THINK to be fact, that you need to be doing more homework...

QUOTE:
-they're not measurements... it's on the darn bottle! so yes, people were taking 600mcg of t2/day... maybe that's what liver problems LipoK stemmed from, I don't know.. maybe that's why it was so effective for people too?? Biotest's T2 has 50mcg /cap... Is that gonna make you waste away too??

This make mo sense what-so-ever. Why would 50mcg make you waste away? You sound angry and you are trying to grasp straws in an already poorly constructed arguement.

-if you think it is poorly constructed argument ... so be it... others will see it for what it is truly worth.. t2 taken 3 times a day is almost 1/3 of the 600mcg of t2 in lipok.. that's supposedly still a lot for a thyroid supplement..

If I am blatantly making assumptions about dosing, then so are you.

-show me info that you have gotten from syntrax, and i will apologize for that statement... when did I assume something about dosing?? i'm just want you to produce info/facts... I have yet to see a solid statement from Syntrax (from you) regarding sodium usniates bioavailability/dosage conversions from active ingredient, etc etc...

Selling out my allowance of UA has nothing to do with product expandsion. Do you think any business waits until their inventroy and assets are zero befor expanding?

-Do you think any business starts expanding when they can't even make much of a profit? You've said yourself that you have plenty of UA left..

Next time I want to post something, should I run it by you first to see if everything is OK.

-no, maybe you should just start by proofreading your website...

Maybe I should attach a research thesis and a grammar handbook with it so your "corrections" can actually be called so.

-like I said, I'm not an english major, a lot of the wording in there didn't make sense ( to me anyway).. fix it or don't fix it.. i don't really care, it's your business, not mine..

**Manteca** · 06-14-2002, 05:20 PM

usnic acid already has a bioavailability of 77.9% for crying out loud, the sodium salt is just more water soluable which obviously won't make much of a difference, I mean it would be great and all but the real issue is whether or not sodium usniate will cost more or not. If it doesn't then go for it but if it signifigantly more expensive (which is shouldn't be) then you would get a better value out of regular UA since you would just need to take a small amount more for the same effect.

**RockECU** · 06-14-2002, 05:26 PM

thank you for chiming in Manteca...

**1fast400** · 06-15-2002, 12:23 PM

btt for answer

**ndn diablo** · 06-15-2002, 01:16 PM

Matpal clean out your PM Box so I can send you a pm!!

**ThaPeoplesChamp** · 06-15-2002, 02:41 PM

Can I even get the Sodium Usniate if I live in Missouri?

I mean Syntrax is in this state and I thought the lawsuits they had banned that for sale in MO.

But, I could be wrong...

**RockECU** · 06-15-2002, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by ThaPeoplesChamp
Can I even get the Sodium Usniate if I live in Missouri?

I mean Syntrax is in this state and I thought the lawsuits they had banned that for sale in MO.

But, I could be wrong...

if you're waiting for a solid answer from matpal about this... it may take a while..

Thread: Read This before buying Usnic Acid

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Read This before buying Usnic Acid

50mg per cap?

Re: 50mg per cap?

Re: Re: 50mg per cap?

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions