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  1. #1
    Registered User ironshot's Avatar
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    shot put +weight lifting

    i have a shot put contest (high school) in 2 monthes,plz write me workout program to improve my throw ,that combine between weight lifting and shot put training

    i thought about something like this:

    day 1-rest
    day 2-legs
    day 3-chest+back
    day 4- rest
    day 5-shot put
    day 6-rest
    day 7-shot put

    what do day about it?
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    Registered User Person's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironshot
    i have a shot put contest (high school) in 2 monthes,plz write me workout program to improve my throw ,that combine between weight lifting and shot put training

    i thought about something like this:

    day 1-rest
    day 2-legs
    day 3-chest+back
    day 4- rest
    day 5-shot put
    day 6-rest
    day 7-shot put

    what do day about it?
    Do some research of your own. www.elitetrack.com and www.elitetrack.com/messageboard are good resources among others.
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  3. #3
    Fitnessfuker bradp's Avatar
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    I do discus, and this is how we do it.
    Monday-Lift,Sprints
    Tuesday-Discus
    Wednesday-Lift,sprints
    Thursday-Discus
    Friday-Lift,sprints
    Sat and Sun off
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    Banned .aeterna's Avatar
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    arent shoulders pretty hugely involved in the shot put?
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    Don't forget to include lifts such ass snatchs and cleans. Explosive lifts are awesome for shotput.
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  6. #6
    Registered User TrojanFtball82's Avatar
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    I was the state champ. in texas last spring in the shotput as sophomore. And most of the reason I was, is because of my form. This is what I did.

    Day 1-Upper body, Shotput after
    Day 2- Lower body, Shotput after
    Day 3- Rest with the weights, Shotput
    Day 4- Power cleans, snatches, anything explosive, Form day for shotput
    Day 5- Upper body, Shotput
    Day 6- Lower body, Shotput
    Day 7- Rest with weights, Form day for shotput

    You need to throw every day. Don't really do any throws witih the glide or the spin yet, don't start doing those until about a month until your first meet. Just work on your form, and your speed, those combined with strength and explosiveness are the most important parts.
    6'2 245
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  7. #7
    Registered User Person's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TrojanFtball82
    I was the state champ. in texas last spring in the shotput as sophomore. And most of the reason I was, is because of my form. This is what I did.

    Day 1-Upper body, Shotput after
    Day 2- Lower body, Shotput after
    Day 3- Rest with the weights, Shotput
    Day 4- Power cleans, snatches, anything explosive, Form day for shotput
    Day 5- Upper body, Shotput
    Day 6- Lower body, Shotput
    Day 7- Rest with weights, Form day for shotput

    You need to throw every day. Don't really do any throws witih the glide or the spin yet, don't start doing those until about a month until your first meet. Just work on your form, and your speed, those combined with strength and explosiveness are the most important parts.
    How much counter rotational (opposite) work did you do?
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  8. #8
    King of Links user321653_345's Avatar
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    Would you guys recommend doing medicine ball throws after each weight training session, if I am training for the throwing events?

    Here is my current schedule:

    Monday: Lower Body Weights, Core work
    Tuesday: Rest, light prehab
    Wednesday: Upper Body Weights
    Thursday: Lower Body Weights, Core Work
    Friday: Rest, prehab
    Saturday: Upper Body Weights
    Sunday: Rest
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  9. #9
    Registered User Fat Boy's Avatar
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    im about 2 months out from my first

    "big" comp of the season.
    currently my program looks something like this
    Monday - Snatch squat to warm up 3's
    Drop Snatch 5x5
    Hang Snatch 5x6
    DB bench 5xfailure
    Tuesday- Circuit, sit ups, pull ups, combo lifts skipping etc
    8,8,7,7,6 Front Squat
    Wednesday- Warm up Drop Snatch 3s
    Clean Pulls 5x5
    Box Cleans 5x6
    Narrow grip bench 4x6 ss with seated row
    Thursday- Rest Day
    Friday- Snatch squats 3s
    Snatch Pulls 5x6
    Back Squat 5x8
    the snatch become cleans ever secodn week.
    Saturday- Combo Lift, Clean, Front Squat Jerk, good morning, push press
    lunge both legs = 1 rep - 6x5
    Incline DB bench 5x6

    also do alot of core exercises through the week, mainly do twisting exercises though, becuase "Situps have as much to do with Shot Put as Cheesecake"

    i throw a soft 6kg ball indoors on Tuesday, Wedneday and Saturday at the moment. this program will run for another 2-3 weeks, then ill do a max strength program for another 3-4 weeks, then 2 weeks out from comp everything in the gym becomes short sharp and to the point. just bang bang bang lifted heavy lifted it fast done.
    also in 2-3 weeks ill start throwing outdoors with a 15lb shot ( i never train with comp weight) monday tuesday thursday and friday. some days may also see me starting with a 12lb shot or a 13lb shot the start with and finishing with a 17lb shot.
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    Originally Posted by Fat Boy
    "big" comp of the season.
    currently my program looks something like this
    Monday - Snatch squat to warm up 3's
    Drop Snatch 5x5
    Hang Snatch 5x6
    DB bench 5xfailure
    Tuesday- Circuit, sit ups, pull ups, combo lifts skipping etc
    8,8,7,7,6 Front Squat
    Wednesday- Warm up Drop Snatch 3s
    Clean Pulls 5x5
    Box Cleans 5x6
    Narrow grip bench 4x6 ss with seated row
    Thursday- Rest Day
    Friday- Snatch squats 3s
    Snatch Pulls 5x6
    Back Squat 5x8
    the snatch become cleans ever secodn week.
    Saturday- Combo Lift, Clean, Front Squat Jerk, good morning, push press
    lunge both legs = 1 rep - 6x5
    Incline DB bench 5x6

    also do alot of core exercises through the week, mainly do twisting exercises though, becuase "Situps have as much to do with Shot Put as Cheesecake"

    i throw a soft 6kg ball indoors on Tuesday, Wedneday and Saturday at the moment. this program will run for another 2-3 weeks, then ill do a max strength program for another 3-4 weeks, then 2 weeks out from comp everything in the gym becomes short sharp and to the point. just bang bang bang lifted heavy lifted it fast done.
    also in 2-3 weeks ill start throwing outdoors with a 15lb shot ( i never train with comp weight) monday tuesday thursday and friday. some days may also see me starting with a 12lb shot or a 13lb shot the start with and finishing with a 17lb shot.
    I would reduce the reps your are doing on the olys. 4 and below is the general recommendation. No need to do 5 or 6 reps, especially since you are training for strength and power.

    SI: MB throws are good before and after weights for all athletes, IMO. It helps prime the CNS. CF uses it before sprint sessions for beginner/intermediate athletes and I have read material from throwing coaches who use a variety of different balls to help aid in the development in throwing power.
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  11. #11
    Registered User Fat Boy's Avatar
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    ill do the reps and sets set out by my coach who with this program who improved my best throw by a meter in 6 months, if u notice with the olympic lifts not are done as full lifts, so i can see where u are coming from with you only 4. and when i get into my next phase where ill be preparing more to the comp, yeah my full olympic lifts will onl be 2-4s.
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  12. #12
    Registered User Person's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fat Boy
    ill do the reps and sets set out by my coach who with this program who improved my best throw by a meter in 6 months, if u notice with the olympic lifts not are done as full lifts, so i can see where u are coming from with you only 4. and when i get into my next phase where ill be preparing more to the comp, yeah my full olympic lifts will onl be 2-4s.
    A clean is a technical lift, regardless of which variation you use. If you are fatigued (which you will be after a few, 4 is high as it is), your form will degrade and can cause injuries. That's good he has increased your throw, but I am just telling you what many good strength and conditioning coaches believe and has logic to it.
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  13. #13
    Registered User Fat Boy's Avatar
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    there is no such thing as a good strength and conditioning people just glorified aerobics instructors.

    Person, u are well read ill give u that, but what practical expiernce do u have besides living on cf.com and elitewhat ever it is?
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    Originally Posted by Fat Boy
    there is no such thing as a good strength and conditioning people just glorified aerobics instructors.

    Person, u are well read ill give u that, but what practical expiernce do u have besides living on cf.com and elitewhat ever it is?
    lol I started varsity on my football team this year in one of the most competitive areas in the nation (AAAA in Western PA with PCC, Gateway, etc.) was all state (and regional, conference, etc etc) for indoor track last year (my first year too as a soph) and all region for outdoor. Times for these weren't the best, at least the FAT ones, because of horrible overtraining and poor conditions and just a lack of experience. I was running 4 events every meet and we had up to 3 meets a week, it wasn't a good site, along with our average workouts being 10x200m at 100% (lol) with walkback recovery. I did however jump over 18ft with a 7 step approach in the long jump my first time. The equals to over 20 with a full approach (assuming I had okay technique, which I still need to work on). I haven't been lucky enough to use quality training except for the last month because of an overbearing football coach, who hated to see kids even do multiple sports, let alone their own training (he finally retired). Track was much the same way at times (although they are coming around). In the last 4 weeks, I increased my 1RM on deadlift from 335 to 405 (couldn't lock out 415) at a BW of now 155-160. It's not the best, but it's getting a lot better, especially in 4 weeks time.

    My numbers aren't the best and of course I can pretty them up to make them sound impressive, but does that have any relevance to how much knowledge one has on a subject? Look at Clyde Hart, he has practically 0 personal experience (at least, at any national/intl. level) and has produced multiple Olympic gold medalists...
    Last edited by Person; 12-04-2004 at 05:52 PM.
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    Registered User Fat Boy's Avatar
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    i didnt say practical expirience as an athlete. Clyde Hart has been involved int he sport for along time, and if u actually lok at his programs, they are not text book. MJ was basically doing a high school 800m program at some stages, it worked for him, and Clyde knew this. you have to tailor programs to athletes abilities.


    20ft in long jump isnt to bad, i spose, but hey i went 20ft wieighing over 300lbs, and running 11.8.

    all i am sayign is you make these very good text book statements, and i am sayign u are very well read, but have u ever applied these text book practices? more often then not they dont work. how many text books woudl tell you to jump off a 3 foot box onto a 2 foot box with 120kg on your back? not to many i dont think. you talk about a max of 30 foot contacts a session? damn i knwo TJers back in the 70s and 80s who were doign 150m speed hops, and these guys are still ranked in the top 20 all time. I am sick and tired of text book coaches that cant apply knowledge to the real world.
    i remember a few years back, taking a gym program of Randy Barnes to a glorified aerobics instructor and having him say its crap woudlnt work blah blah blah, well if it is crap and doesnt work, hwo the hell did he throw 23m? dont tell me drugs were the sole reason.



    not having a go at you person just my opinion of the world, have been bitten one to many times, and now i bite back.
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  16. #16
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    MJ didn't do 800m training, he did no training. He was a lazy ass at the time (by his own remarks) and didn't do the training at all really, which would've been subpar anyways. Clyde Hart's programs are pretty textbook. They're Long-to-Short and focus on tempo running? Look at HSI, they do similar stuff with their 400m runners. The Gopher's track coach does similar training. The system each seems to be using (high amounts of tempo with athletes who already have speed) seems to work. Hart's system is different than that for short sprinters, obviously, but not much different than other successful programs for long sprinters.

    If you could long jump over 20ft at 300lbs, I'd LOVE to see a video because that is almost a ridiculous claim. If you could, why didn't you just lose 100lbs and almost certainly go mid-upper 20's? Wait, you were probably too busy doing depth drops with 120kg on your back! 11.8 and a 20+ft long jump doesn't make a ton of sense either, especially at 300+lbs. If you are jumping 20+ feet you are probably running a LOT faster than 11.8 unless you have some great technique.

    I said 30 foot contacts a session is a general upper limit for jumpers doing intense exercises (it is set and recommended by Mike over at LSU actually, along with CF). I'm sure those jumpers in the 70's and 80's are jumping as far and as high as the folks at LSU . Any names of these "greats"? You can have a few exceptions. Look at Zhana Block who focuses on BOUNDING the last 20m or so of the 100m race. Sure, she is great, but her training and race tactics are not logical and are probably not helping her do any better. Of course jumping off a 3 foot box onto a 2 foot box with 120kg on your back isn't going into books. It's idiotic. The risk is not worth the benefits. Sure, it might help you to an extent. Just hope you get a perfect landing each time or say good bye to your season, possibly your career. You couldn't possibly tell me that doing that is somehow worth the risks and that much more beneficial than other exercises you can be doing.

    Obviously not everything works for everyone and there are exceptions. We can look at some throwers in the 70's who even smoked or coaches that have had successful sprinters by having them run miles and do HIT weight lifting.

    But hey, I am sure doing depth drops with 120kg from one box to another is a great idea and so is the other great ideas you have. I am sure I've "bitten" you quite a bit. Especially by saying a fact that is known throughout the olympic lifting community...
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  17. #17
    Registered User Fat Boy's Avatar
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    i though Boo was the jumps coach at LSU?

    u want some names? Ken Lorraway Kieth Connor, Viktor Sanyev. not sure if u have heard of them, and yeah they hang pretty well with those LSU boys.
    you talk abotu throwers int the 70s smoking as if no one does it today, well i can name u quite a few smokers. Jurgen Schult, Hiestre Cloete, Jai Taurima, Ivan Pedroso, just to name a few.

    120kg on back, i wouldnt do it, me knees woudl buckle, but it worked for Stefan Fernholm, Yuri Sedych used to hold huge DB in his hand ( look like they are at least 110lbs each) and just jump up and down on the spot.

    ever seen Werner Gunthor training, hurdling, holding a squat at 90 degrees for liek 30secs then frog hopping high hurdles, boxes, then up some stadium stairs, and then jumping back down. oh and he is a 2m+ HJ. he weighed about 300lbs.

    MJ didnt have a text book technique now did he ;-) but it was the ebst technqiue for him. the program MJ was doin with clyde is very similiar to an 800m training program, well programs i saw looked that way. as for MJ being a lazy ass, when was that? in high school? when he was to worried about his education to give a damn abotu track?some weeks MJ would have sessions of 4x500m, or 6x200m, or 10x100m. i actually have a friend trainign with HSI at the moment as a 400m runner. so wouldnt be to hard to check to see what they are doing. wonder if they still hang in the gym watchign jerry instead of doing there weights ahahah.

    I used to train in a weightlifting gym and i often saw weightlifters do more then 4 reps, mmmm


    sorry my coversions i weight were off sorry, i was closer to 285. miscalculated in my head.
    reason i dont long jump, well mainly coz i have more chance of making an competitive ona world level at my current event. and 100m speed dont mean a great deal when i come to LJ, u dont have a 100m run up now do u. 100m u go balls out go for broke and get to the other end before anyone else, try doign that and jumping at the end. dont work to well.
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    Originally Posted by Fat Boy
    i though Boo was the jumps coach at LSU?
    I don't know the exact situation, I think either Boo has taken less of a role or has moved on somewere else. You can ask Mike yourself over at elitetrack.com if you want.

    you talk abotu throwers int the 70s smoking as if no one does it today, well i can name u quite a few smokers. Jurgen Schult, Hiestre Cloete, Jai Taurima, Ivan Pedroso, just to name a few.
    Is that supposed to support your cause? That isn't something that helps them at all

    120kg on back, i wouldnt do it, me knees woudl buckle, but it worked for Stefan Fernholm, Yuri Sedych used to hold huge DB in his hand ( look like they are at least 110lbs each) and just jump up and down on the spot.
    The loading would be different with dbs since the weight wouldn't be compressing the spine while trying to land at the same time. Although the injury problem would obviously be lowered now, it still doesn't provide any more of a benefit to do it that other exercises that are safer don't provide.

    ever seen Werner Gunthor training, hurdling, holding a squat at 90 degrees for liek 30secs then frog hopping high hurdles, boxes, then up some stadium stairs, and then jumping back down. oh and he is a 2m+ HJ. he weighed about 300lbs.
    That would be something interesting to see. Can't comment on it since I haven't heard of it nor have I seen it.

    MJ didnt have a text book technique now did he ;-) but it was the ebst technqiue for him.
    Technique is individual, TO AN EXTENT. I have said before it is very individual, but when you break what is natural to do something unnatural (bounding when you should be sprinting), you do have problems.

    the program MJ was doin with clyde is very similiar to an 800m training program, well programs i saw looked that way.
    In the popular article he published that is floating around the internet, it is mostly tempo based with some speed work and some aerobic work. As far as 800m training, can't really comment, but I know that the Gopher's coach (Steele and Potter) uses something similar. From what I have read, HSI often has workouts like 10x600 during GPP and similar, long tempo. CF.com has some information on this.


    as for MJ being a lazy ass, when was that? in high school? when he was to worried about his education to give a damn abotu track?
    Obviously, but that isn't that point. I had misread your post. I thought you were trying to say MJ did 800m training in highschool. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
    some weeks MJ would have sessions of 4x500m, or 6x200m, or 10x100m. i actually have a friend trainign with HSI at the moment as a 400m runner. so wouldnt be to hard to check to see what they are doing. wonder if they still hang in the gym watchign jerry instead of doing there weights ahahah.
    Even CF has workouts like this. 10x100m is a pretty common tempo workout for many short sprinters.
    I used to train in a weightlifting gym and i often saw weightlifters do more then 4 reps, mmmm
    Some do, but many don't and I already provided reasons why it may not be a good idea. You don't have to agree that it's a bad idea, but the logic is there and there are definitely cons to it.

    100m speed dont mean a great deal when i come to LJ, u dont have a 100m run up now do u. 100m u go balls out go for broke and get to the other end before anyone else, try doign that and jumping at the end. dont work to well.
    You still need good acceleration ability to do well in the LJ, same with the 100m. The run-up itself is often (not always) more important to setting up a good jump then the actual penultimate or other final steps. At least, that is what SOME coaches believe.
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    Is that supposed to support your cause? That isn't something that helps them at all


    it isnt soemthing that is to detrimental either. i know aof a top distance coach who has said to his athletes smoking two a day wont effect you when it comes to running. you brought it up like it was a bad thing, that hadnt happened since the 70s, go out after a meet these days, tell me how many, arent smokin ahahah.




    with the logn jump accelration is important yes, rhytmn in your approach is better, u can fun as fast as u like, dont mean you will jump far, Lewis was faster the Powell, who jumped further? Burrel was fast the Pedroso, who jumped Further? at the 2000 olympics Pedroso said if Jai had been able to use the speed he had ( which he coudlnt, mainyl becuase he was goign way to fast) he woudl have jumped 9m. i always find 200m times to be a better spped indication for long jumpers, lets them get a better rhythmn and it is mor elike a long jump run up.

    lets agree to disagree, cant say i wont jump in again when u bring up topics i disagree with expecially when it comes to throws.
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    Originally Posted by Fat Boy
    Is that supposed to support your cause? That isn't something that helps them at all


    it isnt soemthing that is to detrimental either. i know aof a top distance coach who has said to his athletes smoking two a day wont effect you when it comes to running. you brought it up like it was a bad thing, that hadnt happened since the 70s, go out after a meet these days, tell me how many, arent smokin ahahah.
    Smoking won't effect distance running? Okay...



    with the logn jump accelration is important yes, rhytmn in your approach is better, u can fun as fast as u like, dont mean you will jump far, Lewis was faster the Powell, who jumped further? Burrel was fast the Pedroso, who jumped Further? at the 2000 olympics Pedroso said if Jai had been able to use the speed he had ( which he coudlnt, mainyl becuase he was goign way to fast) he woudl have jumped 9m. i always find 200m times to be a better spped indication for long jumpers, lets them get a better rhythmn and it is mor elike a long jump run up.
    The differences in speed at that high of a level is very minute and may not make as big of a difference as experience and overall technique, etc. At a lower level though, the run up and overall acceleration is much more important. If you aren't moving your body fast enough to get the longer jump, why worry about the final set-up?
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    Back on the subject, work on form get it down to an art and u will see gains faster than you would with your lifts. Form is the #1 thing in the shotput.
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    Originally Posted by TrojanFtball82
    Back on the subject, work on form get it down to an art and u will see gains faster than you would with your lifts. Form is the #1 thing in the shotput.
    Couple questions (you might have missed them above). Do you do much counter rotational work? How does your coach regulate volume/intensity in your training?
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    I don't really know what U mean by counter-rotational work. And as for the rep/intensity thing. My dad went to college to throw so he sorta coaches me. We start out just doing presses and alot of them. Then we work on the press and the glide. We usually do alot to start out with, and then as the season nears to an end we only throw about 8 with the glide and 2 with the press, with alot of intensity. Trying to throw further than my pr each time.
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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    arent shoulders pretty hugely involved in the shot put?
    No they aren't, at least not as much as most people think. Shot put is legs, hips and technique. Forearms and triceps play a minor role with the shoulder as an accessory to those but all your power comes from your legs and is transferred to the shot.
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    Originally Posted by superman2002us View Post
    No they aren't, at least not as much as most people think. Shot put is legs, hips and technique. Forearms and triceps play a minor role with the shoulder as an accessory to those but all your power comes from your legs and is transferred to the shot.
    Dude, this is an 8 year old thread.
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    Dude

    Ok I'm a highschool thrower myself (top freshman &#128521 but you need to do shot put at least the form every day include at least 30 glides or spins in your program and do a upper-lower body split and focus on power not so much volume k ull do fine
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    sounds like a good plan
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    sounds good

    sure ...........
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