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    Anyone Know Why You Can Lower (negative) More Than You Can Lift (positive) ??????????

    Hi there,
    ANYONE KNOW WHY YOU CAN LOWER (NEGATIVE) MORE THAN YOU CAN LIFT (POSITIVE) ??????????

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I have a theory why, only a theory, but will let the rest of you have a go. Have read Ellington Darden, Arthur Jones, Mel C Siff and one or two other big names and it seems like these do not know hmmm.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I see one or two people have been asking about negative only training, so I thought I would post this. I have done quite a lot with negative only, so any questions.

    Negatives. You are 40% stronger negatively than you are positively. That is why you can lower slowly a much greater weight than you can lift. It has been demonstrated that increasing your negative strength automatically increases your positive strength. There are three ways you can perform negatives:

    But 1) is I think what most people will want to learn about and do.
    This training can quickly lead to overtraining, so my advice is try it for two weeks, then you could incorporate it into your training, say one time every two weeks.

    1) Two training partners lift a heavier than normal weight than you would use for a regular set of 10 reps which would be (30-40% heavier). You would then proceed to lower the weight slowly (8-10 seconds) for the desired repetitions. You can perform negative dips and negative chins without the aid of a training partner by using your legs to climb to the top position.

    You will need two training partners to lift the weight for you then you lower. In addition, you could lift one dumbbell with both limbs and lower with one, or if you have access to machines then this is much better, as you lift with two limbs and lower with one.

    2) After a normal set of reps to failure your training partner lifts the weight back to the top as you do 2-3 slow negative reps.

    3) Negative accentuated reps. Use approximately 30% less weight than you would use in a normal set. Lift the weight in the normal style (2 seconds) and then lower the weight in 8-10 seconds using ONE appendage. Repeat the lifting and lower the weight using the OTHER appendage. Perform 8-12 reps (lifting). Obviously, this works only with certain exercises, specifically machines.

    Negative training is the one of the most difficult, intense training modalities you can perform.

    In addition, method 1) is very difficult unless you have a couple of really strong people who are willing to lift the weight for you. Negative training can make you extremely sore. You will recover fast from this type of exercise. If you performed it regularly you would very quickly overtrain. Use it sparingly.

    An example of what an elite athlete has accomplished using negative-only training is Tom Laputka - a former professional football player. In Laputka was involved in one of the Nautilus research projects involving negative-only work, and was personally trained by Arthur Jones.
    At that time in my life, Tom recalls, I wanted to get as big and strong as possible. And I wanted the results as fast as possible."

    Laputka's NEGATIVE-ONLY poundages done, FOR REPS:

    Nautilus Hip and Back (single movement arm version) - 700 lbs with ONE LEG. That required the entire 500lb weight stack plus a 200lb man riding the stack. And he worked each hip separately.
    Nautilus Leg Extension - 500lbs, which included a 300lbs weight stack and a 200lb rider.
    Nautilus Leg Curl - 350lbs, 150lb weight stack and a 200lb rider.
    Nautilus Pullover (plateloading version) - 700lbs, 300lbs of plates and two 200lb riders
    Dip - 463 lbs, 263 lbs bodyweight, and 200lbs around the hips
    Nautilus Torso Arm - 350lbs, 150lb weight stack and a 200lb rider
    Nautilus Triceps Extension (plateloading version) - 150lbs of plates
    Nautilus Biceps Curl (plateloading version) - 150lbs of plates.

    Tom makes a few important points emphasized throughout this FAQ:
    One important rule I learned from the research project was that it was very easy to overtrain using negative-only exercise. For example, my strength plateaued after four weeks of training. That indicated to me that my strength had improved to the point that I was now overtraining. To make continued progress I had to reduce my workouts from three days a week to two days a week.
    A month later my strength plateaued again. At the second plateau, I reduced my training from twice a week to three times every two weeks. Almost immediately my strength increased. I never reached a third plateau, as I had to report to football camp before the end of that month. Even then, my strength on some exercises was so great it was scary: 700lbs on the hip and back, and that was with one leg only, and 700lbs on the pullover.

    I've often wondered what would have happened after the next plateau. Or if I'd gone to once a week training. Arthur would have had to redesign some of the machines so we could get more helpers around them. Or we would have had to rent a forklift to do a majority of the lifting.

    Thank you Wayne
    Last edited by waynelucky; 12-03-2004 at 04:24 PM.
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  2. #2
    phenom fuzzwazser's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waynelucky
    Hi there,
    ANYONE KNOW WHY YOU CAN LOWER (NEGATIVE) MORE THAN YOU CAN LIFT (POSITIVE) ??????????

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I have a theory why, only a theory, but will let the rest of you have a go. Have read Ellington Darden, Arthur Jones, Mel C Siff and one or two other big names and it seems like these do not know hmmm.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Thank you Wayne
    Mell Siff does seem to know. Its in facts and fallacies. I recomend you read the book as a lot of what you say is false. To answer your question though You techniquly arent lifting the load during the negitive you are simply yeilding it. In the concentric part of the lift you have to overcome the load but in the eccentric the load overcomes you
    Last edited by fuzzwazser; 12-03-2004 at 05:56 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Hi there,

    I have the book by Mel, and he DOES NOT KNOW why you are stronger in the negative than the positive.

    That was his clever way in which he got out of saying he did not know, anybody could say, in the negative the load overcomes you, WHAT FRIGGING SENSE DOES THAT REALLY MAKE, AS IT DOES NOT OVERCOME YOU, AS IN A NEGATIVE ONLY REP. YOU CAN IF YOU WISH TO STOP THE WEIGHT FROM OVERCOMING YOU.

    NO Mel did not know the answer, not at all. The load overcomes you, so please explane what you think that means. He played a lot off games and riddles pretending he new things.

    I have read the book and a lot of what I say is not false.

    I do respect Mel, in a big way, but Remember Mel's books were self published, which means he had nothing or no one to back up his claims, so all the top publishers would not publish.

    Wait until you hear my answer, you will all kick your self’s.

    Thank you Wayne
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    phenom fuzzwazser's Avatar
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    fuzzwazser is offline
    Originally Posted by waynelucky
    Hi there,

    I have the book by Mel, and he DOES NOT KNOW why you are stronger in the negative than the positive.

    That was his clever way in which he got out of saying he did not know, anybody could say, in the negative the load overcomes you, WHAT FRIGGING SENSE DOES THAT REALLY MAKE, AS IT DOES NOT OVERCOME YOU, AS IN A NEGATIVE ONLY REP. YOU CAN IF YOU WISH TO STOP THE WEIGHT FROM OVERCOMING YOU.

    NO Mel did not know the answer, not at all. The load overcomes you, so please explane what you think that means. He played a lot off games and riddles pretending he new things.

    I have read the book and a lot of what I say is not false.

    I do respect Mel, in a big way, but Remember Mel's books were self published, which means he had nothing or no one to back up his claims, so all the top publishers would not publish.

    Wait until you hear my answer, you will all kick your self’s.

    Thank you Wayne
    Let me guess. you are gonna say its internal muscle friction arent you. I really hope thats not where you're going
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    Hi there,

    fuzzwazser, I am sorry if I sounded rude to you, it was not meant you at all sorry there ok ??? I do apologise, and thank you for your answer, from the book F. and F.

    It was meant at; in the negative, the load overcomes you.

    No, I am not going to suggest that at all, but in a very very very small way internal muscle friction, is true, see supertraining archives, but it is not going to be my answer, long long way from it.

    Thank you Wayne
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    Registered User xtremecondition's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waynelucky
    YOU CAN IF YOU WISH TO STOP THE WEIGHT FROM OVERCOMING YOU.
    Are you talking about stopping? If so, is this considered doing a neutral? If you really think about it, positive training sounds motivating. Negative training sounds like you are having a bad day. I guess neutral training would mean you really don't care?
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    you can lower more then you can lift because you have to be able to overcome all of the weights inertia to lift it but you only have to be able to dissipate some of it to SLOW the lowering
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