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  1. #1921
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    Thanks buddy

    Must have missed that when scanning through
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  2. #1922
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    Thumbs up Ready to start Keto diet any updates since this came up?

    Originally Posted by Blindfaith View Post
    The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss

    In recent media, low carbohydrate diets have been THE fad for almost everybody in America wanting to lose weight. From your secretaries, elementary school teachers, and desk clerks, to bodybuilders, models, actresses, and athletes.

    However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who’s main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation—muscle for sports and high intensity activities.

    My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss. Something we athletes do not want. A CKD is a true fat loss diet that works undeniably, if followed properly and strictly. Yes, low carb diets can be hell at first, but after two to three weeks, there have been anecdotal reports from many dieters that the cravings for carbohydrates decrease. This route to fat burning is unlike any traditional diet all the low-fat diet authors and FDA people have been advocating in history.

    I got turned onto this diet a few years back when I got tired of cutting fat and still not being able to lose those last percentage points of bodyfat without losing hard earned muscle. I would start a low-fat diet, and be a either a social misfit (not going out with my friends to party or not going out to eat). Or in the worse case, feel so deprived of delicious junk foods I missed and bail out on the diet all together. One advantage to this diet is that there is no true restrictions on food. One may eat anything labeled a "food"! Well, almost. I’ll explain later.

    How the diet works.

    The science behind the CKD is simple. Carbohydrates in the diet cause an insulin (a "storage" hormone) output in the pancreas. It is used to store glycogen, amino acids into muscles, while causing excess calories to be stored as fat. So common sense asks me, "How can one try to break down fat, when your body is in a storage-type mode?" Difficult to do, indeed. That is why it makes perfect sense for step one to be cutting carbs.

    The next thing that happens in your body is the rise in catecholamines (a "fat mobilizing" hormone), cortisol (a "breakdown" hormone), and growth hormone. Now your body realizes there’s no more carbs to burn for energy, so it must find another energy source: fat.

    This usually happens during a metabolic condition called "ketosis." This is when your liver is out of glycogen and starts to produce ketones (by-products of fatty acids). You can check your status of whether or not you are in ketosis with urinalysis strips you can pick up at any local drug store called "Ketostix." Just urinate and see if it turns color. If so, you have ketones in the urine.

    When the body is fed fat and protein, it will use dietary fat along with bodyfat for energy with protein going towards repair.

    As a side note, there is another reason why this diet makes the most sense to use while keeping muscle. When one follows a high carbohydrate, low-fat, reduced-calorie diet, there’s a point when some bodyfat is burned, but when the body is still in a carbohydrate burning metabolism while trying to lose "weight," it will strip down precious body protein to convert to glucose for energy.

    On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy. Although there is no scientific research done on this, there have been reports from followers that there truly is a "protein-sparing" effect. It makes sense doesn’t it? Where else would the body look for fat energy when all dietary fat is burned? Bodyfat.

    Diet Requirements Mon. to Fri.

    The phrase "working smarter, not harder" applies here more than any diet one has tried. One must fully understand what they must do in order to optimize their goal. To set a CKD up, one cannot just expect to cut all carbs in the diet, train hard, and lose fat! Although some have come up with variations to this plan, the one stated in this article, I have found, has worked for myself (it got me to 6% BF), and other clients I’ve trained to the leanest, hardest they’ve ever been.

    First, to set up the diet, write down your lean mass weight. Not your total weight, dough boy. If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.

    The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There’s no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).

    So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.

    2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

    The Weekend Carb Load

    Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won’t happen on the CKD.

    Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

    Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.

    What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.

    100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.

    A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.

    So what about dietary fat? I know you’re reminding yourself, "Didn’t this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here’s why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?

    Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can’t just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.

    By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!

    As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter’s decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)

    In Case You Missed It

    So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.

    Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.

    Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit. This will get your body/liver ready to start the carb loading and give you some energy for that final, dreadful workout (trust me, during the first few weeks, you will not want to do that final workout, but you must). Then from Friday night until Saturday at midnight or until bed, eat those carbs!

    Blindfaith, do you have any updates to this diet since you posted this ? i am 37 now bf around 20% whg 230lbs and ready to have my six pack again.where can i get ideas on building my diet menu ,thanks in advance .
    I also was told at gym that i need to take calcium ,magnesium and vitamin D.what do you think?
    Last edited by diego9040; 05-08-2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason: add more
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  3. #1923
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    tips to improve on my diet.im a male currently at 82kg, maybe bout 18% bf

    morn 7.00 am
    3 rashers back bacon
    2 large eggs

    lunch 12.00
    tin of mackeral in sunflower oil
    100g cheese
    25g almonds

    snack pre workout.5.00 pm
    25g almonds

    postworkout 7.00pm
    30g iso pro
    10g malto dex

    dinner 8.00pm
    same as either lunch or breakfast

    been hittin the coke zeros at maybe 3-4 cans a day lol, checked the ketostix and it doesnt seem to be a prob,but im not sure.
    any tips anybody?
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  4. #1924
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    What does it add up to? And where's the veg?
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

    http://www.eileengormley.com/ Funny science fiction for bodybuilders
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  5. #1925
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    1) Ok, so what's the general concencus for PWO for those of you testing w/ the strips?

    I've been mixing whey isolate w/ milk/egg powder mix in water w/ about 1/4 cup of liquid egg-white (from carton) in an attempt to not have an insulin spike, or a small one at best.

    2) Is it ok to add dextrose PWO? I also have ON's whey/oat mix that I added a little dextrose to on my own. Would this be ok, or would the oats be a bad thing for KETO. (This is all PWO BTW)



    3) I'm not really trying to drop weight. I'd actually like to keep my current weight or even add a couple of pounds, but purely lean. The last few days I've eaten slightly above my maintenance level, but stayed under 20g of carbs. What effect will this have? I was at about 71/26/2 yesterday (used fitday), w/ my calorie intake around 3,000, while my maintenance level is 2700. I know I need to add a little more protein to even out the fat/protein ratio, but will this keep my body burning fat even at above-maintenance calorie levels?

    Goal: keep or gain lean mass, lose fat around mid-section. i think the little bit of fat on my body being only around my mid-section is due to my level of sensitivity to insulin (not sure if it means high or low, always get mixed up). i am VERY lean everywhere else, and generally have a hard time putting on weight.
    Last edited by 01svtL; 05-13-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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  6. #1926
    Registered User 01svtL's Avatar
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    Also, what about instantized BCAA powder? Does this spike insulin? Is it a good or bad idea to sip on water throughout the day w/ a couple of small scoops of BCAA's mixed in?


    Do we count the whey from PWO w/ into the daily macros?


    Has anyone tried mixing a scoop of whey w/ about 1/4 cup of heavy whipping cream and 12-16 oz of water as part of a meal? Will the cream be enough to counter the whey and keep the body in ketosis? What about this in addition to solid food consumed about 5 minutes prior to the shake, like a cheese stick or 10-15 almonds or natty PB?

    Do I need to drink a lot of water in addition to tea's? (I drink iced tea and green tea several times/day)


    Anyone know if the supplement White Flood is bad for Keto for a preworkout drink? There's no carbs or sugar and no creatine. I usually mix this w/about 1/2 tsp of taurine for preworkout.
    Last edited by 01svtL; 05-13-2010 at 01:42 PM.
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  7. #1927
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    What does it add up to? And where's the veg?
    well if i have dinner same as lunch it works out to
    2100cal
    137g pro
    168.4g fat
    2-3g carbs

    now if i have dinner same as breakfast
    2000 cal
    119g pro
    137g fat

    so i dont know if this to little for me?
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  8. #1928
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    Looks fine. But add some vegetables. Broccoli, green beans, spinach, celery, fennel, cauliflower, salad, etc.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  9. #1929
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Looks fine. But add some vegetables. Broccoli, green beans, spinach, celery, fennel, cauliflower, salad, etc.
    cool, with havin high bf, is better to carb up every two weeks?also my job is not very physical so should i do a lot of low intensity cardio as well as weights?
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  10. #1930
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    Yes, if your goal is fat loss, keep the carb-ups short and conservative, or even skip altogether.

    Hit the weights hard, and whatever energy you have left over, use for your cardio. Lots of walking is always good. Or cycling. Try cycling to work if you are a reasonable distance, it's one way to get cardio without taking time out of your day.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Yes, if your goal is fat loss, keep the carb-ups short and conservative, or even skip altogether.

    Hit the weights hard, and whatever energy you have left over, use for your cardio. Lots of walking is always good. Or cycling. Try cycling to work if you are a reasonable distance, it's one way to get cardio without taking time out of your day.
    skip carb ups? wont that affect training though? if u training heavy, isnt a good idea to refeed?
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  12. #1932
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    Depends how hard you are training. If you are regularly doing squats, deads, bench etc, then yes, do a regular carb-up. If not, then the whey shake after lifting is probably enough.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    Eileen, can you please take a stab at my questions? I dont want to put myself through this if im doing it wrong, and wasting my time.
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    Originally Posted by 01svtL View Post
    Eileen, can you please take a stab at my questions? I dont want to put myself through this if im doing it wrong, and wasting my time.
    Where are they?
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

    http://www.eileengormley.com/ Funny science fiction for bodybuilders
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Where are they?
    On this page, posts 1925 and 1926.
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  16. #1936
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    Originally Posted by 01svtL View Post
    1) Ok, so what's the general concencus for PWO for those of you testing w/ the strips?

    I've been mixing whey isolate w/ milk/egg powder mix in water w/ about 1/4 cup of liquid egg-white (from carton) in an attempt to not have an insulin spike, or a small one at best.

    2) Is it ok to add dextrose PWO? I also have ON's whey/oat mix that I added a little dextrose to on my own. Would this be ok, or would the oats be a bad thing for KETO. (This is all PWO BTW)



    3) I'm not really trying to drop weight. I'd actually like to keep my current weight or even add a couple of pounds, but purely lean. The last few days I've eaten slightly above my maintenance level, but stayed under 20g of carbs. What effect will this have? I was at about 71/26/2 yesterday (used fitday), w/ my calorie intake around 3,000, while my maintenance level is 2700. I know I need to add a little more protein to even out the fat/protein ratio, but will this keep my body burning fat even at above-maintenance calorie levels?

    Goal: keep or gain lean mass, lose fat around mid-section. i think the little bit of fat on my body being only around my mid-section is due to my level of sensitivity to insulin (not sure if it means high or low, always get mixed up). i am VERY lean everywhere else, and generally have a hard time putting on weight.
    Post workout, go for whey and a small amount of a high gi carb like dextrose. Oats don't produce the sort of short sharp insulin spike which drives the protein into the muscles. Keep the shake simple. Whey, dex and a creatine is all you need. This is one time that insulin works for you .

    There was a study which looked at trained athletes, one group on keto, one on same calories but "balanced". They trained as usual, eating at maintenance. At the end, the balanced group was unchanged, but the keto group had gained an average of a kilo of muscle and lost a kilo of fat each.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

    http://www.eileengormley.com/ Funny science fiction for bodybuilders
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    Originally Posted by 01svtL View Post
    Also, what about instantized BCAA powder? Does this spike insulin? Is it a good or bad idea to sip on water throughout the day w/ a couple of small scoops of BCAA's mixed in?


    Do we count the whey from PWO w/ into the daily macros?


    Has anyone tried mixing a scoop of whey w/ about 1/4 cup of heavy whipping cream and 12-16 oz of water as part of a meal? Will the cream be enough to counter the whey and keep the body in ketosis? What about this in addition to solid food consumed about 5 minutes prior to the shake, like a cheese stick or 10-15 almonds or natty PB?

    Do I need to drink a lot of water in addition to tea's? (I drink iced tea and green tea several times/day)


    Anyone know if the supplement White Flood is bad for Keto for a preworkout drink? There's no carbs or sugar and no creatine. I usually mix this w/about 1/2 tsp of taurine for preworkout.
    Any supplement without sugar or carbs should be fine.

    Some people do mix whey and cream or olive oil as a replacement meal, but casein would be better for this.

    The problem with keto for non-vegetarians is getting in the fat, not the protein. Eat whole food and you shouldn't have to take extra whey.

    All calories count. All protein counts. The only thing that doesn't is the fiber that is naturally in food, and your PWO dextrose.

    As long as you are getting the fluid in, it doesn't make a huge difference if it's water or tea. I live in Ireland where it's cold enough that drinking cold water is only attractive when you are sweating.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

    http://www.eileengormley.com/ Funny science fiction for bodybuilders
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  18. #1938
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    I got a question for you Eileen. I'm 175 pounds and about 10% body fat, according to this during my carb-ups i will need approximately 700 grams of carbs. This seems absolutely too much for me, i have made a diet for the weekend to distribute those carbs and i would need to eat approximately 2400 calories a day which would be above my maintenance weight.

    During the week i lift heavy, exercise such as deadlifts, squats, bench press, OHP are performed on their designated days and i feel dead after each work out. Can i simply take 400 grams of carbs instead of 700 grams and keep burning the fat and be able to keep going at my pace? I still eat around 160 grams of protein a day in order to not lose any muscle but I'm not sure about the weekend carb ups.

    I take a protein shake after workouts with very low carbs as well, i eat maybe 8 grams of carbs a day during the week days.
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    The carb-up is supposed to be a refeed. You do go above maintenance calories. At 10%, you have a fair bit of leeway on your refeed. You could probably handle 700g of carbs. However, if it seems high to you, then by all means, go with what feels comfortable, and keep notes, so you can tweak it for best results.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    Hey Elieen,

    my gf is 5'5 114lbs

    shes been on keto for about a week now, and is doing it to tone. shes 400cals below maintenance at 900cals a day. no fruits or simple carbs, but has fibre (throughout the day) and 1/4cup of oatmeal in the morning.

    10% carbs, 35% protein, and 55% fat

    what are your thoughts?
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    900 cals a day? Unless she's a little old lady and totally bed bound, that's way too low. A tight cutting level on keto is 10 cals per lb, so that means she should be eating at least 1140 and probably more if she goes to the gym or is reasonably active.

    There was a media buzz recently about a a study which found that eating carbs in the morning set the body up to expect carbs all day, and made it less efficient at handling fat. While a high fat breakfast made it able to handle anything.

    On the other hand, a study on overweight women found that carbs at breakfast and low carb the rest of the day produced useful weight loss and a high level of compliance.

    To be honest, I'd worry more about the low level of calories than the oatmeal.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    After a refeed on lets say friday, how long would it normally take to re-enter ketosis?
    Aspiring personal trainer, any tips on the ACE certification would be well appreciated.
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    Originally Posted by Ant918 View Post
    After a refeed on lets say friday, how long would it normally take to re-enter ketosis?
    Depends on the size of the carb-up and a few other factors, but most CKD-ers can do it in a day, two max. High fat food and lots of cardio help speed it up.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    900 cals a day? Unless she's a little old lady and totally bed bound, that's way too low. A tight cutting level on keto is 10 cals per lb, so that means she should be eating at least 1140 and probably more if she goes to the gym or is reasonably active.

    There was a media buzz recently about a a study which found that eating carbs in the morning set the body up to expect carbs all day, and made it less efficient at handling fat. While a high fat breakfast made it able to handle anything.

    On the other hand, a study on overweight women found that carbs at breakfast and low carb the rest of the day produced useful weight loss and a high level of compliance.

    To be honest, I'd worry more about the low level of calories than the oatmeal.
    Ok sounds good thank u for the advice
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Depends on the size of the carb-up and a few other factors, but most CKD-ers can do it in a day, two max. High fat food and lots of cardio help speed it up.
    Hmm I see, ive been reading that you have an easier time re-entering ketosis as you get used to it, I was just curious because on Friday im planning a 600 gram carb up but I dont work out saturday and sunday but I do continue to do cardio, so I was wondering just how quick it actually takes to burn that glycogen off.
    Aspiring personal trainer, any tips on the ACE certification would be well appreciated.
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    A couple of days if you are not working out, less than a day if you go for a long spin on the bike or something similar.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    A couple of days if you are not working out, less than a day if you go for a long spin on the bike or something similar.
    Alright sounds good, guess ill start throwing in an hour on the bike on my saturday mornings...Thanks for the replys Eileen
    Aspiring personal trainer, any tips on the ACE certification would be well appreciated.
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    Hmb

    Hi Eileen,
    Just wondering if I add optimum nutrition HMB 1000 to my supp stack would it affect my state in ketosis. The reason for adding this is for faster muscle recovery.

    Thanks
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    What's in it? If it doesn't have sugar or carbs, you should be fine.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    "100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout "

    So if my pwo shake has 50 grams protein, should I be having 125g of carbs in my pwo? The wording is a bit confusing for me. Also, whats a good source of "easily digested liquid carbs"
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