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  1. #121
    Registered User JFP2026's Avatar
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    Even when you slowly reintroduce carbs, is fat gain still expected?

    And how slowly do you recommend introducing them?

    Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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  2. #122
    Registered User Blindfaith's Avatar
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    not much fat will be gained back at all if you SLOWLY introduce carbs back into the system.

    my personal rule is that i introduce 50 grams of carbs per week after i end doing the keto diet. Other people may do it differently but thats what i do to make for certain that i dont gain any fat back.
    Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.

    The body cannot achieve what the mind cannot conceive.

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  3. #123
    Registered User musmar's Avatar
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    cool stuff
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  4. #124
    Member The_Natural's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Blindfaith
    not much fat will be gained back at all if you SLOWLY introduce carbs back into the system.

    my personal rule is that i introduce 50 grams of carbs per week after i end doing the keto diet. Other people may do it differently but thats what i do to make for certain that i dont gain any fat back.
    Do u mean 50 grams per day???
    I would imagine 50 grams per week would take quite awhile to get back to normal eating patterns.
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  5. #125
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  6. #126
    Registered User Blindfaith's Avatar
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    yeah add 50 grams per week.
    Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.

    The body cannot achieve what the mind cannot conceive.

    Practice doesnt make perfect....perfect practice makes perfect
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  7. #127
    back after a layoff Meni's Avatar
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  8. #128
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    What happens if u go under 1000 calories eaten a day while still eating 1 gram protein per pound of body weight? I am curious if you body just countiues to use fat or goes into starve mode and starts burning muscle.
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  9. #129
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    Im seriously considering starting this diet about 2 months before summer but i still have a few questions about it.

    1) you say ketones are toxic to the brain... this can't be good for you??
    2) Blindfaith, your workouts are a lot longer than mine and i dont know if your lifting real heavy during the diet, if im on this diet do i still continue to lift as heavy as i am. (do i continue on with the same workouts im doing to bulk)?
    3) cardio, i know you explained it but im still confused, i do only 2 sessions in the morning a week how should i alter this?
    4) Once you get off the diet do you gain all the fat back immediatly?
    5) without carbs you probly become a bit weaker right?

    thanks alot looks like a really interesting diet to try.
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  10. #130
    Member FatNerd's Avatar
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    A few things need to be cleared up here:

    1) Eating a high carb diet is unnatural. The human body was not designed to do this. We have not evolved significantly in 100,000 years. It was only 10,000 years ago that we learned to harvest grains and make flour to bake bread. It was only within the last few hundred years that otherwise well-nourished societies have had large amounts of carbs in thier diets. Sure plenty of people lived off of 2 cups of rice or 2 slices of bread a day and didn't get fat, but they don't count.

    2) Bodybuilding is equally unnatural. 6% bodyfat 100 years or more ago meant you were ABOUT TO DIE. With modern nutritional science, we have been able to achieve this and still mantain health. The Keto Diet seems to be the best way to do this. The reason you feel "retarded" on Atkins is because a normally healthy diet doesn't mix well with a normally unhealthy lifestyle.

    3) On the topic of toxic ketones:

    http://www.fourmilab.to/hackdiet/www...3_3_0_4_3.html

    While ketones are toxic, they're only slightly so. Dieting won't make you see huge hairy bats (unless, of course, you saw huge hairy bats before). Second, the waste products of burning fat aren't insidious--they don't accumulate in the body like heavy metals or some organic toxins. Instead, they get swept out of the bloodstream by the kidneys and liver and are excreted in fairly short order.
    http://www.halcyon.com/kway/chemistry.htm

    The ketones consist of some of the most toxic elements of essential oils. Some of these include thujone (Mugwort, Tansy, Sage, Wormwood) and pulegone (Pennyroyal). The toxic chemicals in this group can cause epeleptic seizures, convulsions, abortive effects, and mental confusion. However, not all Ketones are toxic. The non-toxic ketones may aid in dissolving mucus, dissolving fats, and wound healing. Some common chemicals in this group are jasmone (Jasmine), fenchone (Fennel), carvone (Coriander, Peppermint, Tagetes), menthone (Peppermint, Spearmint, Rose Geranium), and pinocamphone (Hyssop, Juniper Berry).
    The process by which you lose weight on Atkins or Keto Diets is really called Lipolysis/Ketosis. This is safe since your body produces these ketones, and excretes them in urine rather quickly. Ketoacidosis is what happens to diabetics that are unable to metabolize the sugars properly and then burns fat stores for energy when you don't want it to. Formation of ketones is a serious condition for diabetics. It is a condition that should be cared for by a doctor. This is why Atkins recommends you take the Five Hour Glucose Tolerance Test before starting his diet.

    For the record, I'm an "overweight desk jockey" who is on the Atkins Diet and has done much research into it and has had much success. I was lead to this thread by my brother who is a bodybuilder considering starting the Keto Diet soon. I believe both of these diets are extremely healthy, Keto moreso, but I'm sticking with Atkins because I'm really lazy and can't think of anything more boring than lifting weights.

    I hope some of the information in my post has helped you guys.

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  11. #131
    Registered User meestermontana's Avatar
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    is a protein shake with skim milk and a banana ok after a workout while on keto?
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  12. #132
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    Fat Nerd you said, "6% bodyfat 100 years or more ago meant you were ABOUT TO DIE"
    can you show some proof of this?
    and you are still fat right?
    so how well does atkins go for you?
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  13. #133
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    Originally posted by meestermontana
    is a protein shake with skim milk and a banana ok after a workout while on keto?
    its not ideal, but if thats all you can get or have, then its at least something... Id recommend grape juice or gatorade over the milk, add some whey protien and yer golden... the milk protein casein is too slow digesting to be optimal...
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  14. #134
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    Originally posted by Meni
    I don't do keto but I would suggest
    80% unsaturated/ 20% saturated (or even less)


    There is nothing wrong with saturated fat. Also, too many polyunsaturated fats can be detrimental. The best approach is to balance the type of fat.


    I suggest everyone reads "The Cholesterol Myths." A lot of the crap you hear about cholesterol and sat. fat is bull****.
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  15. #135
    back after a layoff Meni's Avatar
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    I'm just going by what I did
    and what worked for me
    from 205 to 164
    no strength lost
    6.8% bf
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  16. #136
    Registered User mixxalot's Avatar
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    are ketogenic diets safe in the long run?

    I am interested in knowing whether a ketogenic diet with few carbs (under 40g a day) is safe for you in the long run? Doesnt it cause kidney stones and health problems? Does it really burn more bodyfat and preserve muscle better than a moderate carb moderate fat moderate protein diet? Thanks!

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  17. #137
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    Atkins thinks so
    saw him on Donahue
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  18. #138
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    Re: are ketogenic diets safe in the long run?

    Originally posted by mixxalot
    Doesnt it cause kidney stones

    Just drink plenty of water and you shouldn't have a problem.
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    Originally posted by tre14
    There is nothing wrong with saturated fat. Also, too many polyunsaturated fats can be detrimental. The best approach is to balance the type of fat.


    I suggest everyone reads "The Cholesterol Myths." A lot of the crap you hear about cholesterol and sat. fat is bull****.
    Hey tre14.....looks like you read the book then

    IMO keto is very safe if the correct fats are eaten.....and I DON'T mean eating a very high % of polyunsaturated fats, but a sensible balance.

    Low carb eating has been around for over 100yrs in so called modern civilisation. It isn't a new "fad" diet, But anyone who does keto should read and then make up their own mind. "Someone on the BB.com forum said its safe" is not sufficient IMO.
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  20. #140
    Member FatNerd's Avatar
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    The 6% comment was really purely speculation. I said so because there weren't very many bodybuilders 100 yrs ago, and the only way people go so low was generally starvation.

    http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20020327.html

    According to an article from Medscape.com, the American Dietetic Association recommends that men have 15-18% body fat and women have 20-25% body fat. Healthy male athletes might be as low as 5-12% body fat, and healthy female athletes could be as low as 10-20%.

    Dr. C. Everett Koop's site, ShapeUp.com, breaks down healthy body fat ranges by both gender and age. Men under 39 years of age should have 8-19% body fat, and women under 39 years of age should have 21-32%. Older men may range from 11% to 24%, and older women may range from 23% to 35%.

    Health Check Systems quotes the American Council on Exercise and says men's body fat should be 6-25%, and women's should be 14-31%.
    I guess 6% could be healthy, but under normal circumstances, it probably isn't. (bodybuilding is not normal circumstances, but many bodybuilders can employ unhealthy means to get this low)

    As far as my success with Atkins, in 6 weeks, I lost 20lbs, and feel GREAT. Its been 2 weeks or so since I stepped on a scale, and I'm sure I've lost more.

    My mother lost 40lbs in 4 months, and my father lost like 50lbs in about the same time. My youngest brother lost almost as much as I did in like 2 weeks. My middle brother, who is a member of this forum and pointed me to this thread is on Keto with much success.
    Last edited by FatNerd; 02-28-2003 at 07:41 AM.
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  21. #141
    Member xrik8's Avatar
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    seems to complicated, where can an idiot find all this you guys are talking about, simpilfied? easier to understand?
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  22. #142
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    Couple questions;

    1: Should one only eat 1g of protein per LBM pounds? I thought the general consensus was that during cutting one should eat like 1.5g protein per pound.

    2: How much cardio should one do on workout days? How much on non-workout days?

    3: Could anyone list the best fats to eat while cutting? What ratio?
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  23. #143
    Registered User Drumboy354's Avatar
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    Okay in his article he says sun. through friday afternoon you should take in fat and protein. But then he says don't take in fat and carbs on the days that you work out. Well if you work-out mon. through thursday (or any 4 days) You're only taking in Protein??? Nahh this can't be right, what am I missing?
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  24. #144
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    I have the same Problem. If you work out 4-5 days a week then when do I eat the fat portion of the diet.
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    There's an article by fitnessman and dorian that explains things a little better I think. No offense to blindfaith ofcourse.
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  26. #146
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    1.5g per pound best for cutting

    Well I dont know the real answer but thus far on the cutting phase of my diet I have been eating 150 to 200g of protein per day (I weight 145lbs) and this works great for me. Cut way down on carbs (under 100g) per day and the protein and fats will fill you up and help lean you out.

    Steak and eggs for breakfast
    fish and salad greens lunch
    mid afternoon snack some unsalted nuts
    dinner steak and salad

    I am down to 9% bodyfat from 19% several months ago so I know this works. My lean mass has increased by 5 pounds as well.
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    Originally posted by Drumboy354
    Okay in his article he says sun. through friday afternoon you should take in fat and protein. But then he says don't take in fat and carbs on the days that you work out. Well if you work-out mon. through thursday (or any 4 days) You're only taking in Protein??? Nahh this can't be right, what am I missing?
    The basics are:

    Mon-Fri All meals are high fat, moderate protein, low carb except post w/o shake which is whey protein and liquid carbs (dextrose or maltodextrin or grape juice), and wait 1.5 to 2hrs after this before your next high fat meal.

    Weekends swap the fat and carb ratios so you eat high carb low fat.

    The amount of protein per day should be 1g per lb of total body weight and a min of 150g per day during the first 2 wesks. Don't go too high on protein.
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  28. #148
    Registered User mixxalot's Avatar
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    the easy ketogenic diet

    I love steak, eggs and fish! I eat almost
    a pound of lean sirloin steak several days a week with salad greens and spices. The other days I eat fish, eggs and salads. It makes cooking and shopping simple and quick. I never overeat or get hungry and I have lost a lot of bodyfat and gained muscle mass. Plus meat is cheap in america now that the health nuts are anti red meat it has driven down the cost of good steaks in the markets which is good news for us on the ketogenic diets. I used to always get hungry and overeat on the old high carb low fat diet and was fat.
    HTML off
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  29. #149
    Registered User OldUser982's Avatar
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    Wink

    i plan on doing the keto diet....wtf, ill try anything once
    but i have a few questions:
    can i eat: cottage cheese, gatorade powder (destrose) post workout

    otherwise im good to go....
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  30. #150
    Member hausgrl's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SeanMann
    What happens if u go under 1000 calories eaten a day while still eating 1 gram protein per pound of body weight? I am curious if you body just countiues to use fat or goes into starve mode and starts burning muscle.
    if someone can, i'd appreciate the answer to this as well
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