The Second Induction Phase...

[xtrell]

I've already done keto for quite a while, and recently took around a month and a half off where my body re-adapted to carbs.

Right now, I plan on getting my body fat adapted again for around a month. My question is: will it take two weeks again like the first time, or since my body has survived on ketones before, maybe only a week or so after entering ketosis? I want to go 60/35/<5 to get fat-adapted then go around 50/50/0 for the remainder of my cutting.

Obviously there's no solid answer but I'm sure there's a pretty reasonable theory the more knowledgeable low-carbers go by. Thanks..

[MarkVI]

50/50/0 sounds awesome, I can't wait to see your experience.

[skuZZitude]

50/50 will get you into ketosis without many problems.

[lukewbrubaker]

Since you have done this before I would just see how your body reacts. You will know when you hit ketosis then just stay in as long as you want before your carbup. I am coming off the end of two weeks of high carbs and am going to do the same. I am guessing that once I hit ketosis I will probably stay in it for 7-10 days then have my carbup but thats just a guess at this point.

[Teacher77]

Originally Posted by xtrell

I've already done keto for quite a while, and recently took around a month and a half off where my body re-adapted to carbs.

Right now, I plan on getting my body fat adapted again for around a month. My question is: will it take two weeks again like the first time, or since my body has survived on ketones before, maybe only a week or so after entering ketosis? I want to go 60/35/<5 to get fat-adapted then go around 50/50/0 for the remainder of my cutting.

Obviously there's no solid answer but I'm sure there's a pretty reasonable theory the more knowledgeable low-carbers go by. Thanks..

I'd say induction would take about the same time. It's not like coming back from a 2-day carbup. But i never tried it and anyways, i guess it's very individual-specific.

But on the other hand : why 50-50-0 ?? That would be hard to acheive and you'd probably have lack of fiber problems.

[xtrell]

I think you understood my actual question, Teacher, but I'm not sure. Not the time taking to get into ketosis, but the week or two it takes to get one's body adapted to it for good (meaning any sudden intake of carbs will go straight to muscle glycogen; this isn't like to happen if you've been no-carbing for only 3 days). I think Pasqual's diet has this initial phase, as does the outline of the CKD in this forum.

Unless someone can say otherwise, I think I'll just wait until I feel the need to carbup; whether that's one week or two or three.

In regards to 50-50, that's just my goal in numbers. I don't total in the fiber capsules and occasional broccoli I consume, but I'll be getting a healthy amount of fiber. I guess if you do count fiber, it might be somewhere around 50/47/3 or something, maybe reverse. My goal is just to consume an equal number of fat and protein calories mainly from eggs, red meat, and whey. I also am following in TheCaptain's footsteps and taking defatted liver tablets... Mostly for the EAAs but it adds some protein.

Basically after trying to go back to a higher carb diet, I couldn't do it. Fat was still around 40% and carbs weren't as high as most bodybuilder style dieters, but I couldn't do it. I would diet well until dinnertime then go crazy and go all out. I'd do cardio to make up for it but I can't help but imagine the fat loss I would've made had I been eating correctly doing all that cardio.

On a keto-style diet my discipline is perfect, I feel better during the day, I get stronger, and I stay sane by having a free-for-all weekend. Some people may hate the low carb lifestyle, but I can't really fathom anything else anymore.

[Teacher77]

Originally Posted by xtrell

I think you understood my actual question, Teacher, but I'm not sure. Not the time taking to get into ketosis, but the week or two it takes to get one's body adapted to it for good (meaning any sudden intake of carbs will go straight to muscle glycogen; this isn't like to happen if you've been no-carbing for only 3 days). I think Pasqual's diet has this initial phase, as does the outline of the CKD in this forum.

I had understood indead. The fact is that your body takes a good 3 weeks to fully adapt to ketosis. Research on fasting individuals, individuals boing a protein-sparing modified fast or individuals doing a real "no carb" keto diet shows that most of the adaptations are rapid but some occur only after a good 20 days, especially the maximum protein sparing effects. There is much much less data directly applicable to CKD'ers, but anectodal experience shows that these adaptations still occur even if ketosis is interrupted for 24-30 hour periods (the carbups), although they take more time.

So what i meant is someone who has carbed up for 2 days and spends 5 days a week in ketosis each and every week is still adapting his body. But your 6 week break is something entirely different and requires, in my opinion, a whole new adaptation.

[Atavis]

6 weeks is sufficient to reverse fat adaptation. Becoming fat adapted could very well take you another 3-4 weeks.

However, I am not aware of any testing that has been conducted on subjects who have changed from keto to carb and back again. So it's still mostly theory and guess work.