Overtraining Theory: From Shoo Head ( A Highly Unaccredited Unofficial View )

[Shoo Head]

Okay, so everyday I logon, and see a "I'm I Overtraining" thread. All these threads have one thing in common, the thread starter doesn't even understand that it takes more than 1 day to overtrain.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~My Theory~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It takes weeks to overtrain, correct? This is from doing too much, too soon for your body to adapt / heal. I was thinking, that if your body was exposed to a steady, mildly light workload, in comparison to your actual workout, maybe you could slowly adapt, to the point where you could basically handle a steady amount, everyday ( if you chose to ).

The idea, in my mind is this- your body needs 48 hrs. to heal from a heavy workout, but with the proper rest + food intake, you can actually heal earlier than that, in this example, say 40 hrs. If the day in-between your workdays, you did say, 1 heavyset of curls ( or other exercise, but that just came to mind ), it would lightly breakdown your muscles, to set back healing time just a minuscule amount, to the point where they could still heal, in the given 48 hrs. After a few weeks they would've adapted to being exposed to this amount of workload, so you would increase to say 2 sets, and so on. My ideal on this is that you could get to the point with proper nutrition, rest, etc... That your body would be used to healing at this rate, where you could workout virtually everyday, unfaded.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~My Experiment~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will do this for a few weeks to see what happens, I do not currently have pictures, but by the end of this experiment, I will. I will start with my arms, because this seems to be what people worry overtraining the most.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~My Notes~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know that the neg train will be coming, along with a pack of vicious wolves, and hecklers. But this is something that I've looked at for awhile. Seeing people I know who've done absolutely nothing right, and never overtrained. Also from a past workout plan I had that worked every body part 2 days in a row, on a rotational basis, that everyone called "overtraining". The human body is a marvelous thing, and I think that people consider it a wuss sometimes, but I will dispel the overtraining myth.

Wish me Luck.

[WilliamMartin]

Sounds interesting. I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

[olinerules87]

1. Yes you can train your body and get your recovery rate to increase. Mine is good enough that I can train fullbody 4 days in a row and still progress.

2. Overtrainng is a whole body thng. you don't just overtrain one muscle

3. Proper rest and nutrition will not automatically prevent you from overtraining. Don't believe me, follow Charles' Polquinns Super Accumulation Program. If you follow it correctly you will reach a state of failure (which is the point of the program because after hitting failure you can rest for 5 days and come back better than ever)/

[Shoo Head]

Originally Posted by olinerules87

1. Yes you can train your body and get your recovery rate to increase. Mine is good enough that I can train fullbody 4 days in a row and still progress.

2. Overtrainng is a whole body thng. you don't just overtrain one muscle

3. Proper rest and nutrition will not automatically prevent you from overtraining. Don't believe me, follow Charles' Polquinns Super Accumulation Program. If you follow it correctly you will reach a state of failure (which is the point of the program because after hitting failure you can rest for 5 days and come back better than ever)/

1. ) True.

2. ) True.

3. ) True.

1 + 2 is main;y why I am doing this, though. Mainly because that is the two things people sling up. ( 1, that you can't increase recovery time + 2, that you can overtrain 1 bodypart )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Number 3 is also true, but I was thinking slower paced, maybe, than that.

[Shoo Head]

This experiment is mainly just for newbs + the future threads of BB.com.

[olinerules87]

allright man. goood luck/

mind showing us the program you plan on doing.
If you don't have one I suggest perfect 10 by chad waterbury. it is a specialization program where you choose 2 lagging muscles and work you way up to 10 workouts for those muscles over the entire span of the program. this really increased my recovery rate.

again good luck

*subscribed too

[Torrtrefireto]

I support your thinking out the box...

[teenage_guru]

thinking outside the square, nice work champ

[Big_fuzzy]

Id have to squat down to shake your hand, but beleive me I would, thats brilliant!

Dodges Shoo's headhight punch to the groin***

Only playing man! But yes, good on you for thinking.

Think about it, how do olympic lifters such as myself adapt to training 2-3 times a day for 3 hours at a time.

How many people could handle squatting heavy 6 days a week, 3 times a day and be in a heavy deep squat for over 30 total set ranging from singles to 5's.

Gradual conditioning.

(Ive worked up to 5 days a week, 7 sessions a week)

The Bulgarians train 6-9 tmes a day for 45-60 minutes 6 days a week. It takes close to a decade for most of them to work up to this, but thats still a ****load of work.

When it comes to training, the body's ability to adapt is a curse and a gift. Curse for budding bodybuilders because the body adapts andgrows slower, gift for the strength athletes becasue we can work at 90% to 110% of current 1rm everyday and still be healthy.

Same applies for the westside guys (drugs aside) but they are constantly hitting 1rm on a day to day basis.

good post shoo, but can i recomend ou try this with a better excersise? squats would be much better, or even deadlifts.

[V.H.9.8.4.]

good luck, cant wait to see the results

[TheNameless]

overtraining and underresting are two different things.

[olinerules87]

Originally Posted by Big_fuzzy

Id have to squat down to shake your hand, but beleive me I would, thats brilliant!

Dodges Shoo's headhight punch to the groin***

Only playing man! But yes, good on you for thinking.

Think about it, how do olympic lifters such as myself adapt to training 2-3 times a day for 3 hours at a time.

How many people could handle squatting heavy 6 days a week, 3 times a day and be in a heavy deep squat for over 30 total set ranging from singles to 5's.

Gradual conditioning.

(Ive worked up to 5 days a week, 7 sessions a week)

The Bulgarians train 6-9 tmes a day for 45-60 minutes 6 days a week. It takes close to a decade for most of them to work up to this, but thats still a ****load of work.

When it comes to training, the body's ability to adapt is a curse and a gift. Curse for budding bodybuilders because the body adapts andgrows slower, gift for the strength athletes becasue we can work at 90% to 110% of current 1rm everyday and still be healthy.

Same applies for the westside guys (drugs aside) but they are constantly hitting 1rm on a day to day basis.

good post shoo, but can i recomend ou try this with a better excersise? squats would be much better, or even deadlifts.

met the USA team weightlifting coach 2 years back at a seminar. I think he said they had just caught a bunch of the bulgarian Oly lifters using juice. (yes off topic but interesting)

[Shoo Head]

Originally Posted by olinerules87

allright man. goood luck/

mind showing us the program you plan on doing.
If you don't have one I suggest perfect 10 by chad waterbury. it is a specialization program where you choose 2 lagging muscles and work you way up to 10 workouts for those muscles over the entire span of the program. this really increased my recovery rate.

again good luck

*subscribed too

I really don't know what I'll end up doing, I'll check out your recommendation though. I have a feeling though, it's going to either revolve around back work, shoulders, or arms ( since that seems to be what's in "demand", plus a lot of leg work irritates past problems- knees / hips / feet. It's a b*tch as much as I love working them. ).

Originally Posted by Big_fuzzy

Id have to squat down to shake your hand, but beleive me I would, thats brilliant!

Dodges Shoo's headhight punch to the groin***

Only playing man! But yes, good on you for thinking.

Think about it, how do olympic lifters such as myself adapt to training 2-3 times a day for 3 hours at a time.

How many people could handle squatting heavy 6 days a week, 3 times a day and be in a heavy deep squat for over 30 total set ranging from singles to 5's.

Gradual conditioning.

(Ive worked up to 5 days a week, 7 sessions a week)

The Bulgarians train 6-9 tmes a day for 45-60 minutes 6 days a week. It takes close to a decade for most of them to work up to this, but thats still a ****load of work.

When it comes to training, the body's ability to adapt is a curse and a gift. Curse for budding bodybuilders because the body adapts andgrows slower, gift for the strength athletes becasue we can work at 90% to 110% of current 1rm everyday and still be healthy.

Same applies for the westside guys (drugs aside) but they are constantly hitting 1rm on a day to day basis.

good post shoo, but can i recomend ou try this with a better excersise? squats would be much better, or even deadlifts.

Lol.

Exactly though, those people ( plus you ) you mentioned are the perfect example for what I was trying to say. The body can adapt to anything.

Also, I will probably attempt this using Deadlifts as the fundamental.

Originally Posted by TheNameless

overtraining and underresting are two different things.

I don't exactly know what, or how you meant this, but I think you may have missed my point. Not sure though, I'm not changing though... Most seem to have got it.

[Shoo Head]

Ok, from now on, all negative posts will be ignored. Only posts that help the well-being of the thread will be replied to. If you have any recommendations, etc... Feel free to post them. Just don't make bitchy, doubting posts. Only constructiveness, please.

*Thanks to Olinerules87 for recommendation of the template. Since it relies heavily on RM's, I may get a little off, but not too far off.

The post directly after this will begin my experiment.

[Shoo Head]

The Program

Here's what you've been waiting for! You're probably wondering why this program is titled Perfect 10 Training. That's because (surprise!) I'm going to outline a program that leads to training your lagging body parts for ten sessions each week! Think of this program as the antithesis to the mythical Colorado Experiment.

Pull out that Zippo and get ready to light the stick of muscular dynamite!

WEEK 1

Addendum for Weeks 1-4: Perform for one or two body parts. Choose one exercise for each body part, each day. Stretch after each session.

DAY 1
Sets: 6
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s (70 seconds)
Load: 6RM (6 reps max)

DAY 2: Off

DAY 3
Sets: 3
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 5
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM

DAYS 6 & 7: Off


WEEK 2

DAY 1
Sets: 7
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 6RM

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3
Sets: 4
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 6
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM

DAYS 6 & 7: Off

WEEK 3

DAY 1
Sets: 8
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 6RM

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3
Sets: 5
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 7
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM

DAY 6
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off


WEEK 4

DAY 1
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

DAY 2: Off

DAY 3
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5
Sets: 2
Reps: 12
Rest: 90s
Load: 15RM

DAYS 6 & 7: Off


WEEK 5

Addendum for Weeks 5-8: Perform for one or two body parts. Choose one exercise for each body part, each day. There must be at least 6 hours between AM/PM sessions. Stretch after each session. Perform ice massage when prescribed.

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2: Off

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 2
Reps: 12
Rest: 90s
Load: 15RM

PM
Sets: 3
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

PM
Sets: 1
Reps: 12
Rest: NA
Load: 12RM
Note: This set should be taken to concentric failure only.
Ice Massage

DAYS 6 & 7: Off


WEEK 6

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 4
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 4
Reps: 8
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 12
Rest: 90s
Load: 15RM

PM
Sets: 4
Reps: 5
Rest: 90s
Load: 8RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4: Off

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 4
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 6RM

PM
Sets: 1
Reps: 15
Rest: NA
Load: 15RM
Note: This set should be taken to concentric failure only.
Ice Massage

DAY 6
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off


WEEK 7

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 90s
Load: 10RM

PM
Sets: 2
Reps: 20
Rest: 180s
Load: 24RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 3
Reps: 12
Rest: 120s
Load: 15RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4
Set: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 1
Reps: 10
Rest: NA
Load: 10RM
Note: This set should be taken to concentric failure only.
Ice Massage

DAY 6
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off


WEEK 8

Off completely from training the muscle group(s).


WEEK 9

DAY 1

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 5
Rest: 70s
Load: 7RM

PM
Sets: 2
Reps: 15
Rest: 120s
Load: 18RM
Ice Massage

DAY 2
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 3

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 3
Rest: 70s
Load: 5RM

PM
Sets: 2
Reps: 20
Rest: 180s
Load: 22RM
Ice Massage

DAY 4
Set: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

DAY 5

AM
Sets: 3
Reps: 10
Rest: 120s
Load: 12RM

PM
Sets: 6
Reps: 3
Rest: 90s
Load: 5RM
Ice Massage

DAY 6

AM
Sets: 2
Reps: 25
Rest: 180s
Load: 28RM (~50% of 1RM)

PM
Set: 1
Reps: 50
Load: 50RM (~25% of 1RM)

DAY 7: Off

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will most likely be using this for my back + arms.

It says to continue as usual with your other bodyparts, which in my case would be legs + chest, but since this new plan is probably going to have a bit of deadlifts, I would appreciate input on how to incorporate my leg workout with it properly ( as usual, my leg workout basically revolves around mixed versions of squats, which don't get along too nicely with deadlifting ).

[PMurda]

Interesting to see how this will work out
and id like to see pics cuz youre close to my height

[Devils]

Well I hope you don't go ahead an make great gains, otherwise everyone will start doing it.

Good luck dude.

[olinerules87]

Glad to see you choose perfect 10. It will defintly bring up the bodyparts you choose to do. I did chest and back with it. At the end of week 9 I did barely reach a state of overtraining but to be honest my diet/supps/rest weren't as good as I'm expecting yours to be.

I wouldn't do back + arms (bis & tris). Instead just stick with 2 (maybe back & tris because bis will grow too with all the back work) or just arms as I've heard it is amazing for arms.


And heres a link to a thread I made about overtraiing for anyone wanting to know more: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1#post29757111

[olinerules87]

one more thing Shoo. I uploaded a spreadsheet with a lot of chad waterbury's programs at http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/192...grams-xls.html

The perfect 10 program is on there too

[Shoo Head]

Originally Posted by olinerules87

Glad to see you choose perfect 10. It will defintly bring up the bodyparts you choose to do. I did chest and back with it. At the end of week 9 I did barely reach a state of overtraining but to be honest my diet/supps/rest weren't as good as I'm expecting yours to be.

I wouldn't do back + arms (bis & tris). Instead just stick with 2 (maybe back & tris because bis will grow too with all the back work) or just arms as I've heard it is amazing for arms.


And heres a link to a thread I made about overtraiing for anyone wanting to know more: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1#post29757111

I'll probably end up doing that. It hadn't popped in my mind, but it really wouldn't be smart to train Bis exclusively, considering the back work. My back is also quite a shame.

Also : before anyone gets their hopes up, if I decide to post-numbers, which, out of laziness I probably won't- don't be expecting no high numbers, I'm weak as ****. Comparably.

[nWe]

You don't have to start out with as low volume as 2 sets and 3 sets lol. . .

Just workout your whole body 3 times every week with the same amount of sets and do different rep range for every workout and you won't overtrain.

Like.

Day 1: 4-6 reps
Day 3: 8-0 reps
Day 5: 10-12 reps

[Shoo Head]

Originally Posted by nWe

You don't have to start out with as low volume as 2 sets and 3 sets lol. . .

Just workout your whole body 3 times every week with the same amount of sets and do different rep range for every workout and you won't overtrain.

Like.

Day 1: 4-6 reps
Day 3: 8-0 reps
Day 5: 10-12 reps

lol.

[rwgober92]

sounds cool ill check back and see how this ends up

[keeperlit]

cliffs for reps?

[ahhmyeye]

Cool. I'm doing a waterbury program sort of similar. 10 days of straight training (overtraining), 5 days rest (supercompensation). I'm on day 4, training on sore muscles is hard!

[olinerules87]

Originally Posted by ahhmyeye

Cool. I'm doing a waterbury program sort of similar. 10 days of straight training (overtraining), 5 days rest (supercompensation). I'm on day 4, training on sore muscles is hard!

mind letting me know the results you got on that program once you finish. I think I might do that next month

[TheManchild]

yeah overtraining is not really as common as people think. when i first started lifting i benched, curled, did pullups, and did some leg excercises every single day except weekends for an entire summer. my bench went up 5lbs a week for reps. i think now its why i dont make gains lifting only once per week per bodypart, i have to work every single one at least twice. i saw major gains from a chest tri, leg shoulder, back bi repeated with sunday off.

i mean honestly like i'm going to wrestling camp where i have practice for like 9 or 10 hours a day, and i ahve football practices and camps that are all day too. and i lift before or after the camps. seems like you'd burn out but you really dont. only time i kinda burn out is during wrestling season when there is 3 hour practices every single day, and i think its more of a mental burnout with balancing school, cutting weight, and having practice along with having the desire to see freinds but not having time to

[Shoo Head]

Originally Posted by ahhmyeye

Cool. I'm doing a waterbury program sort of similar. 10 days of straight training (overtraining), 5 days rest (supercompensation). I'm on day 4, training on sore muscles is hard!

lol. I bet that is a bitch.

[Shoo Head]

Also, just to add more info to this thread...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My chest rountine that I will be using is going to be something like-

DB Press- 3*6-8
Decline DB Press- 2*6-8
Incline DB Press- 2*6-8
DB Flyes- 1*6-8

And I need to ask for some help/suggestions on how to train legs with this. Normally my leg routine is something like...

3*6- Some variation of Squats
2*10- Calf Raises
2*6- Hack Squats

You can see that-that's pretty messy, but, it seems to do it's job. However, this new plan is going to have quite a bit of deadlifting in it, so how should I incorperate leg work, IYO?

I'm also having difficulties figuring out how I'll train Shoulders directly, without interfering with the Tri. workouts...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm not worrying about it though, everything will fall into place. Besides, this wasn't meant to be under extremely correct conditions.

The Warrior Spirit will guide me. lol.

[TeddyTank]

Hmm thinking outside the circ..wait, box, looks interesting, will be following.