Mike Mentzer / Casey Viator / Danny Padilla - Muscle Gain?

[DragonDude]

In Mike Mentzer 'HIT THe MM Way ' book (with John Little) he talks on pg. 10 about Danny Padilla gaining 45 ponds muscle over a 10 year period, averaging only 4 1/2 pounds a year. He says on same page an exceptional person , may gain 10 - 12 pounds a year of muscle.

Yet in current 'Ironman' magazine (July '07) pg. 182 he talks of Casey Viator gained more than 60 pounds of muscle in ONE MONTH!

Was Mike Mentzer totally contradicting himself there? 10-12 pounds for exceptional people a YEAR, then also saying Casey got 60 pounds in ONE MONTH & it was lab tested & proven.

HOW MUCH HAVE THE BEST GAINING IFBB PRO'S REALLY PUT ON IN TERMS OF MUSCLE? Is the Danny Padilla 5 pound a year average the norm or 10 pound a year at the max, or like Casey 50 pounds up in a MONTH is possible?

[Guardian]

In Mike Mentzer 'HIT THe MM Way ' book (with John Little) he talks on pg. 10 about Danny Padilla gaining 45 ponds muscle over a 10 year period, averaging only 4 1/2 pounds a year. He says on same page an exceptional person , may gain 10 - 12 pounds a year of muscle.

Yet in current 'Ironman' magazine (July '07) pg. 182 he talks of Casey Viator gained more than 60 pounds of muscle in ONE MONTH!

Was Mike Mentzer totally contradicting himself there? 10-12 pounds for exceptional people a YEAR, then also saying Casey got 60 pounds in ONE MONTH & it was lab tested & proven.

HOW MUCH HAVE THE BEST GAINING IFBB PRO'S REALLY PUT ON IN TERMS OF MUSCLE? Is the Danny Padilla 5 pound a year average the norm or 10 pound a year at the max, or like Casey 50 pounds up in a MONTH is possible?

Well, it may be one of those things where an influential person juggles enhanced vs non enhanced and mixes up "general rules" for each so people like you are confused.

A NATURAL will usually gain about 1-1.25 pounds of muscle a month if hes doing everything right.

When you get into enhanced ie aas use plus god knows what else then that rule can change. Some people barely make any more gains then they would natural, and some people like Levrone could put on 40 or 50 pounds of muscle in 5 months.

I would personally say for anyone even enhanced to gain 60 pounds of muscle in a month is damn near impossible, if not a miracle. If you took a guy with exception muscle maturity, muscle memory, and drug genetics plus had him drained of glycogen and water, maybe just maybe he could gain 30 or 40 and even that would be a stretch. So basically I think something isnt right there, typo or bull**** or something no way the guy gained 60 pounds in a month. If so hed have the best aas genetics of anyone thats been on stage!

How much have the best gaining pros put on in mass? Well I dont know and Im not sure anyone does. I have head Arnold gained 40 or so pounds his first cycle. Levrone puts on quite a bit on his cycles. Dorian appeared to also respond quite well. But thats only my guess as to the best gainers.

[chenko]

Casey Viator was a seasoned BB who was on a bit of a hiatus and had shrunk down, who when went back to training like an animal using HIT with already exceptional knowledge of his body/training/nutrition/coaching etc , with anabolics and muscle memory gained his size back very quickly.

He didnt just put on 60 pounds as a newb.

[John Prophet]

"Colorado experiment"

its sort of like when they take malnourished kids and give them B12 or something. BAM, instant growth.

the question being, since that was like back in the 70s, why didnt Mentzer or Viator or anyone else since duplicate those results?

[randomality]

"Colorado experiment"

its sort of like when they take malnourished kids and give them B12 or something. BAM, instant growth.

the question being, since that was like back in the 70s, why didnt Mentzer or Viator or anyone else since duplicate those results?

exactly, the colorado experiment.

certain things could be drawn from that study about muscle memory.

some people believe that it was actually that the fascia surrounding the muscle was stretched, allowing for growth to take place at a more rapid pace. think about it as reinflating a muscle.

[Chris R.]

The amount of muscle an individual can put on is dependent on many, many variables. It depends on genetics, nutrition, sleep, workout technique, muscle memory and with pro's the gear etc.. Muscle memory and gear was a huge factor especially in Viator's case, but 60 lbs is bs.

[USMARINE8152]

60 pounds of muscle in one month....I say BS.

Even the most geneticly (sp) enhanced guys, juice,GH,protein,and eat small children probally couldnt do that. I say BS.

[HardCat]

Re-acquistion of former muscle mass; 'muscle-memory' shadowed this 'experiment' of a profit motivated business savvy Arthur Jones. Not to direspect the man, who was exceptional in many ways otherwise, this experiment was not nearly as dramatic as it appears on the surface.

Also i had read Casey claiming he had done additional work beyond the HIT Nautilus program. Perhaps this is questionable, but, it was something to consider as a possibility.

When Casey, later, went on to promote Keiser equipment and the 'tonka-toy' machine's that they built, he also said in an interview that basically none of us really know what the "****" builds mass. This interview always troubled me. It defied all the earlier claims, and soiled the integrity of Viator, as i would understand it.

Nautilus equipment often was innovative and a great inclusion, but, not nearly the sole focus of ones training. Some exercises like bent-over dumbell raises were limited, in there muscle stimulation based on the range and the applied resistance, so the rear delt cam operated machines were beneficial.

Even with steriods Casey or anyone with favourable genetics still must train hard and with deliberation. Drugs can never answer all the questions as to why someone has developed a physique, or we would see a greater number of physiques, in the general walk of life.

Casey had a very thick powerful back; his back-double bicep pose was very impressive and he had thick limbs. Where he lost some promaniance was with his shoulders and chest. Still though his physique was damn well amazing and he was a strong bodybuilder that used free weights that would make people shudder in exercises like barbell incline presses.

[a-dog]

casey was also paid for every pound of muscle he put on, he did nothing but eat, sleep and train under arthur jones. I've read a couple of descriptions and it's cool as hell to read about the workouts...

[sikboy]

In Mike Mentzer 'HIT THe MM Way ' book (with John Little) he talks on pg. 10 about Danny Padilla gaining 45 ponds muscle over a 10 year period, averaging only 4 1/2 pounds a year. He says on same page an exceptional person , may gain 10 - 12 pounds a year of muscle.

Yet in current 'Ironman' magazine (July '07) pg. 182 he talks of Casey Viator gained more than 60 pounds of muscle in ONE MONTH!

Was Mike Mentzer totally contradicting himself there? 10-12 pounds for exceptional people a YEAR, then also saying Casey got 60 pounds in ONE MONTH & it was lab tested & proven.

HOW MUCH HAVE THE BEST GAINING IFBB PRO'S REALLY PUT ON IN TERMS OF MUSCLE? Is the Danny Padilla 5 pound a year average the norm or 10 pound a year at the max, or like Casey 50 pounds up in a MONTH is possible?

It was the Colorado experiment and it was Casey not Danny.

He states in HD 2: Mind and Body that Casey was supposedly on a calorie deficit diet, but in fact Arthur Jones fed Casey everything, including the kitchen sink!

It was also after Caseys accident i think, Casey lost a lot of size and jumped back onto gear and gained most of it back very quick.

[IronReloadDC 04]

gotta agree with gaurdian

naturally- 2 pounds of muscle in one month is extraodinary.......after beginner gains........that would come to 24 pounds in a year..gain 1-2 pounds of muscle a month, and you are doing amazing........So anyone who gains 15-20 pounds in a month, and is not a beginner, you've really gotta question that, by maybe thinking that gains are fat or water


now synthetically- 2-3 pounds a week is extroadinary

[user23960508710783]

In Mike Mentzer 'HIT THe MM Way ' book (with John Little) he talks on pg. 10 about Danny Padilla gaining 45 ponds muscle over a 10 year period, averaging only 4 1/2 pounds a year. He says on same page an exceptional person , may gain 10 - 12 pounds a year of muscle.

Yet in current 'Ironman' magazine (July '07) pg. 182 he talks of Casey Viator gained more than 60 pounds of muscle in ONE MONTH!

Was Mike Mentzer totally contradicting himself there? 10-12 pounds for exceptional people a YEAR, then also saying Casey got 60 pounds in ONE MONTH & it was lab tested & proven.

HOW MUCH HAVE THE BEST GAINING IFBB PRO'S REALLY PUT ON IN TERMS OF MUSCLE? Is the Danny Padilla 5 pound a year average the norm or 10 pound a year at the max, or like Casey 50 pounds up in a MONTH is possible?

45 pounds of muscle over 10 years is great progress. The point Mike was making is just that the constant claims we all hear about people packing on 20 pounds of muscle in 2 weeks are b.s.

And yes, he did indeed contradict himself by making his own such claims.

But his original assertion about muscle growth being a slow, gradual process is accurate.