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  1. #1
    Registered User SpankMasterFlex's Avatar
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    Spiking insulin only promotes fat gains TRUE or FALSE?

    Originally Posted by rizoN17 View Post
    That's the worst stack/plan I've ever heard. Dextrose = sugar, why the hell would you want sugar when cutting. Spiking insulin only promotes fat gains, and protein is needed more than ever on a cut. Sizeon= more sugar.
    I read this in a post and wanted to clear it up...

    If your on a Cut, and Lifting hard, is it ideal to take a PWO product like Torrent?

    This quote makes it sound like you dont want any type of Waxy maize either, since it will lead to fat gains...
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  2. #2
    Universal Nutrition naturalguy's Avatar
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    There are too many variables to say a yes or no answer.

    Short answer, in the post workout scenario you are less likely to gain fat. In fact the majority of competitive bodybuilders use simple carbs post workout throught their contest diets and that is when they get their leanest.

    I use simple carbs when cutting with no problem.
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  3. #3
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SpankMasterFlex View Post
    Spiking insulin only promotes fat gains TRUE or FALSE?
    Results will vary... big time

    Read up:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=170643
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  4. #4
    9.9 MattyH7688's Avatar
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    dextrose doesnt inihibit fat loss at all for me or anything, i just hate how it bloats me when trying to cut
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  5. #5
    Registered User Hatebreed13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    There are too many variables to say a yes or no answer.

    Short answer, in the post workout scenario you are less likely to gain fat. In fact the majority of competitive bodybuilders use simple carbs post workout throught their contest diets and that is when they get their leanest.

    I use simple carbs when cutting with no problem.
    What about cortisol levels increasing post-workout?
    I always assumed that plays a role in the theoretical occurence of fat gain post-workout.
    Kill the Hype.
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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by Hatebreed13 View Post
    What about cortisol levels increasing post-workout?
    I always assumed that plays a role in the theoretical occurence of fat gain post-workout.
    Isulin will blunt cortisol
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  7. #7
    Registered User Hatebreed13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    Isulin will blunt cortisol
    Yes.
    But spiking insulin from simple carbs+whey, low-GI carbs+whey, whey alone?
    Kill the Hype.
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  8. #8
    Registered User njmuscle66's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SpankMasterFlex View Post
    I read this in a post and wanted to clear it up...

    If your on a Cut, and Lifting hard, is it ideal to take a PWO product like Torrent?

    This quote makes it sound like you dont want any type of Waxy maize either, since it will lead to fat gains...

    The current line of PWO products are ideal in my opinion. Quality Protein source, sufficent amount of carbs for glycogen replenishment, and other goodies necesary for growth and repair. POST WORKOUT is one time of the day that you want high insulin levels. Now the secret to effective fat loss is managing insulin spikes during the day to ensure you dont have a large increase.

    Simple carbs are not "bad" when used in moderation and properly timed. Products like Alpha Lipoic Acid are also helpful in managing insulin levels

    The poster you referenced is rather faulty in their logic.

    spiking insulin levels in a caluculated manner is good. Eating haphazardly during the day within looking to manage insulin levels is bad.
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  9. #9
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hatebreed13 View Post
    Yes.
    But spiking insulin from simple carbs+whey, low-GI carbs+whey, whey alone?
    Whey / aminos alone may be sufficient, but that's really only one of the puzzle pieces. When setting up your post-workout, keep pre / during in mind as well.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Hatebreed13's Avatar
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    "...The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (>/=1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise."

    Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.

    Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

    Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

    I guess Pu12 got it down.
    I hate him.
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  11. #11
    Universal Nutrition naturalguy's Avatar
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    They all produce insulin. It depends on the amount of what is ingested.
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  12. #12
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hatebreed13 View Post
    I guess Pu12 got it down.
    I hate him.
    Hugz
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g View Post
    Whey / aminos alone may be sufficient, but that's really only one of the puzzle pieces. When setting up your post-workout, keep pre / during in mind as well.
    *COUGH* Purple Wraath




    coming down with a cold or something
    Kill the Hype.
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  14. #14
    Universal Nutrition naturalguy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by njmuscle66 View Post

    spiking insulin levels in a caluculated manner is good. Eating haphazardly during the day within looking to manage insulin levels is bad.
    This one of the most intelligent statements about this subject that I have read on this board.
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  15. #15
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Here is a little summary that *MIGHT* help:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=162

    It explains why some choose to go with food sources (carbs + nutrients) instead of just sugars etc..
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  16. #16
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Another summary... this one from Alan (again, results will vary):

    Originally Posted by alan aragon
    alan aragon
    if you got your preW nutrition right, then after a workout, you shouldn't need nutrients "right away" -- you rather should be still absorbing nutrients from either your pre or during-workout shake, that way you're ALREADY getting the nutrients "right away". this concept applies to fears of insignificant amounts of fat & fiber postW. the purpose of the postworkout shake shouldn't be to make up for a poorly executed preW strategy. the true purpose of the postW shake should be to provide the body with a maximal degree of both macro & micronutrients for recovery, taking advantage of the body's heightened insulin sensitivity & bias toward partitioning substrates into the lean tissue instead of the adipose tissue. yes hyperinsulinemia & glycogenesis are legitimate postW objectives, but this can be achieved with the right total amounts of prot & carbs. one key element here is that there's only so much carb the body can absorb in a given unit of time. this means that total amount is much more important than GI. dextrose (or a sucrose mix like gatorade) should only be a minor contributor to the postW carb mix, if at all. this is because it is a low-grade carb source, regardless of timing.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    This one of the most intelligent statements about this subject that I have read on this board.
    agreed.
    I love people, especially Marines I know who claim to be workout fanatics/health freaks and their diet all day consists of mostly high-GI foods.
    "AAAGH WHY can't I get this six pack"
    *As they eat 2 slices of pizza, a hamburger, and a soda*
    "I think I need more Hydroxycut Hardcore"
    Kill the Hype.
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  18. #18
    Registered User ChristianBBer's Avatar
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    Do you know how hard and long you would have to workout to be fearful of fat gain due to cortisol ?
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  19. #19
    Registered User Hatebreed13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChristianBBer View Post
    Do you know how hard and long you would have to workout to be fearful of fat gain due to cortisol ?
    What about fat gain from cortisol release after cardio?
    Kill the Hype.
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  20. #20
    Registered User njmuscle66's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by naturalguy View Post
    This one of the most intelligent statements about this subject that I have read on this board.
    Thanks! I think far too often people get too deep into the weeds and fall victims to the paralysis of analysis. It is not really as difficult as sometimes it is made to be. For me low carbs (mostly centered around post workout) , moderate fat, moderate protein have been the key for me looking in shape consistently. When my carb intake was much higher, sure I decieved myself to believe i was bigger.........I wasn't I was just fatter
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  21. #21
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by njmuscle66 View Post
    Thanks! I think far too often people get too deep into the weeds and fall victims to the paralysis of analysis. It is not really as difficult as sometimes it is made to be. For me low carbs (mostly centered around post workout) , moderate fat, moderate protein have been the key for me looking in shape consistently. When my carb intake was much higher, sure I decieved myself to believe i was bigger.........I wasn't I was just fatter
    As you know, genetics (hormone levels... and not just test / GH obviously) play a HUGE role though, so that's where people get caught in a downward spiral.

    Originally Posted by Will Brink
    One topic that seems to be a never-ending source of confusion is blood, or more precisely, understanding blood work and which tests to get and why. It never fails to amaze me that the vast majority of bodybuilders and other athletes have no issue spending literally thousands of dollars on supplements (some of which have virtually no science behind them to justify their use) and gym memberships each year, but won't spend a penny on blood tests to see what's really going on with their hormones and other indicators of health (e.g., cholesterol, liver function, etc.).

    This is odd considering the fact that it's those very hormones that are ultimately responsible for whether or not your hard work in the gym is a waste of time (read busting your ass and getting no place fast) or productive. Let me be as clear as possible here: if your blood chemistry is off, meaning your hormone levels are sub par, you can eat all the supplements you want, follow any fancy new routine you want, and eat all you want, and you will be spinning your wheels with little to no results!

    Depending on how out of whack your hormones are, you will get less then optimal results from your hard work or virtually no results at all. Conversely, the person with naturally optimal levels of hormones, or the person that has optimized their hormone levels via external assistance (more on that later) is going to make the progress they expect from their training, nutrition, and supplement use.

    Now, explaining everything there is to know about blood work, hormones, etc., is far beyond the scope of this article. What I hope to do is give people a primer, using my own recent blood tests as examples, so people understand the importance of regular blood work and will follow up by learning more about the topic via additional readings, talking to a doctor, surfing the net, and so on.

    Most bodybuilders know about the major anabolic and catabolic hormones, such as testosterone, Insulin-like growth factor-1, GH, cortisol, etc. There are however other tests that give an overall picture that should be considered (e.g., estradiol, thyroid hormones, etc.) and not all hormones can be tested for easily by a single blood draw, such as GH, which does not last long enough in the blood and is released in a pulsatile fashion, making it difficult to test for unless you are hooked up for multiple blood draws throughout the day.
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    Disclaimer: The above post is my PERSONAL OPINION and DOES NOT REPRESENT the official position of any company. It DOES NOT constitute medical advice. CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility (no hormones produced in the facility/no cross contamination).
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  22. #22
    PROST! icetrauma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hatebreed13 View Post
    *COUGH* Purple Wraath




    coming down with a cold or something
    Shameless CL plug.





    I caught the same cold. cough PW cough.
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  23. #23
    Banned Mr. Aries's Avatar
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    insulin is one of the more anabolic hormones in the body. It does much more than "promote fat gain"
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  24. #24
    Universal Nutrition naturalguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Aries View Post
    insulin is one of the more anabolic hormones in the body. It does much more than "promote fat gain"
    Amen
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  25. #25
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Aries View Post
    www.elitefitsystems.com

    Let me help.
    HI 2 U
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    Disclaimer: The above post is my PERSONAL OPINION and DOES NOT REPRESENT the official position of any company. It DOES NOT constitute medical advice. CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility (no hormones produced in the facility/no cross contamination).
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  26. #26
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Aries View Post
    insulin is one of the more anabolic hormones in the body. It does much more than "promote fat gain"
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne44.htm
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  27. #27
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    Originally Posted by fitnecise View Post


    gah ... now i have to read
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  28. #28
    Registered User Hatebreed13's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Aries View Post
    insulin is one of the more anabolic hormones in the body. It does much more than "promote fat gain"
    isn't it the strongest hormone of all?
    Kill the Hype.
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  29. #29
    Registered User Hatebreed13's Avatar
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    wait...
    or was it IGF-1 is the strongest hormone, and insulin is the strongest anabolic?
    Kill the Hype.
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  30. #30
    Re-Born 10TonBrick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hatebreed13 View Post
    wait...
    or was it IGF-1 is the strongest hormone, and insulin is the strongest anabolic?
    ? they are both hormone and anabolic.

    slin is stronger IMO.
    Chew Crew
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