Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[Martin Berkhan]

Ok, I started of trolling a bit here the last week. Not really a good start, so I'll try again.

Im using a system of intermittent fasting in order to promote lean muscle gains and fat loss. The method has gained quite some popularity on other boards, so I though I'd just put my blog link here for those interested in reading more about it.

Check it out and leave some comments if you wan't.

www.leangains.blogspot.com

[Jashro]

Ok, I started of trolling a bit here the last week. Not really a good start, so I'll try again.

Im using a system of intermittent fasting in order to promote lean muscle gains and fat loss. The method has gained quite some popularity on other boards, so I though I'd just put my blog link here for those interested in reading more about it.

For those familiar with Lyle McDonald, I'll be writing a book with him on the method. Leangains is pretty much the antithesis of the traditional meal patterns which are encouraged on this board (i.e high meal frequency, eating every 2-3 hrs etc).

Check it out and leave some comments if you wan't.

www.leangains.blogspot.com

Oh dear god...

[darkvain]

^ this reaction is hardly suprising, but why do most of you close your eyes when new concepts and ideas appear?

To me, intermittent fasting seems rather reasonable, there has been lots of research that all point to its health benefits. I am still not sure if its optimal for bodybuilding and strength training, but why not try new stuff?

Martin, would you be so kind to show us some more pictures of yourself and your progress using your own protocol? You seem extremely lean in your profile pictures, but they are small and don?t really show a lot. Thank you!

[Martin Berkhan]

^ this reaction is hardly suprising, but why do most of you close your eyes when new concepts and ideas appear?

To me, intermittent fasting seems rather reasonable, there has been lots of research that all point to its health benefits. I am still not sure if its optimal for bodybuilding and strength training, but why not try new stuff?

Martin, would you be so kind to show us some more pictures of yourself and your progress using your own protocol? You seem extremely lean in your profile pictures, but they are small and don?t really show a lot. Thank you!

Darkvain,

im not really surprised about the (lack of) responses. I get the impression that most of the people here are pretty narrowminded and dogmatic when it comes to nutrition. The "when and how's" of eating (6 meals a day, "starvation mode" etc) and other common bodybuilding jargon is heavily preached and is accepted as the undeniable truth. That's also why I shy away from this forum and frequent other boards where topics are discussed within a scientific, rather than "bro-scific", context.

That being said, I'll have some more pictures up on the blog in about a month or so when im done with the recomp protocol im currently doing.

I recently put up some vids where im sitting at 206-208 lbs @ 8-9% bf, which would be 8 lbs of LBM gained since my avatar pic (which was taken in november). I hope to hit 6%-7% in the end of august, which would be a net gain of 22-24 lbs LBM in about a year, doing various forms of IF (cycling calories and playing around with macros).

[darkvain]

I totally agree with what you said about the way these "bodybuilding rules" about nutrition are believed and followed without further questioning or critical thought. Funny that some natural guys think they can stuff themselves like the pros without gaining any fat ("clean bulking", what a joke). It?s good that there are some people trying out new stuff!

Some more questions: Did you do any cardio to reach the leanness seen in your pics? I?d find it hard to believe you didn?t, if yes, what kind of cardio?.

Also, do you usually train in a fasted state? I would think that this would put the body under too much pressure, what about the emptied glycogen storages - I read that the body produces ketones as energy during a fast, regardless of low-carb nutrition or not, but is that efficient enough fuel for intensive workouts?

Thanks man

[The Director]

I just read a great article on this, it seems to make sense. Only problem I have with it is, how it effects the thyroid, I mean, doesn't it slow down the metabolism?

[Martin Berkhan]

Metabolism increases during the fast, contrary to popular belief.

The effect is mediated by catecholamines, which also supresses hunger and improves mental clarity. Think of catecholamines like your body's own ephedrine.

[matthor]

I too have been following this approach for some time now with only positives to report. Strength is up, life is easier and more enjoyable and im still very lean.

[hasuchObe]

So how does fasted state work? Gimme the details~

[mcneely011]

I don't understand the reason behind working out in a fasted state. Around your workout is when nutrient partitioning is best. Why would you substitute calories from a time when they are definitely going to be used to build muscle or replace muscle glycogen --periworkout-- to a time when they are more likely to be stored as fat. Also, Martin, I think it seems a little ironic to be badmouthing people who go on raving non scientifically when to my knowledge there is no science supporting fasted state workouts.

[oaks]

hey

anyone have a good link about this intermittant fasting, for me to read up on...i am interested in trying this as well and just want to know the ins and outs to this diet.

thanks

[matthor]

I don't understand the reason behind working out in a fasted state. Around your workout is when nutrient partitioning is best. Why would you substitute calories from a time when they are definitely going to be used to build muscle or replace muscle glycogen --periworkout-- to a time when they are more likely to be stored as fat. Also, Martin, I think it seems a little ironic to be badmouthing people who go on raving non scientifically when to my knowledge there is no science supporting fasted state workouts.

That fasted workout in the blog seems to have been done as an experiment and isn't part of the recommendations for the protocol. There are alot of people who function better training fasted and I think Martin was just testing it out to see how it affected his performance so it could perhaps be an option for others who prefer to train that way.

[mcneely011]

That fasted workout in the blog seems to have been done as an experiment and isn't part of the recommendations for the protocol. There are alot of people who function better training fasted and I think Martin was just testing it out to see how it affected his performance so it could perhaps be an option for others who prefer to train that way.

i understand this; i just thought it seemed a bit ironic how he could call people on this board unscientific, narrowminded and dogmatic.

[friedrice683]

I read your website and testimonials of your customers.

I am thoroughly interested but am not able to pay to learn more.

Is there anything you CAN tell us that you don't require money for =/ ?

Reason I ask is because I have been doing 6 meals a day lately for the past year and a half and actually really am not sure when it comes to it. I sometimes NEED the multiple meals a day because I feel rundown and the next meal "picks me up" and I am not sure how my energy levels will be on this diet.

Such as what happens if my energy levels are down just like when I am hungry...I have to go to bed hungry? =/


Could you explain this more?

Also give us a sample of your daily diet looks like and what not?

What do you do on rest days?

Just need some help here when it comes to this.



Matthor,
What do you currently do when it comes to diet and what not?
I noticed in the meals eating now thread you eat pretty clean with the occasional icecream, custard or something good like that. What does your daily diet and routine look like?

I am thoroughly interested in this

[matthor]

Matthor,
What do you currently do when it comes to diet and what not?
I noticed in the meals eating now thread you eat pretty clean with the occasional icecream, custard or something good like that. What does your daily diet and routine look like?

I am thoroughly interested in this

On a weight training day, lets say Monday:

Either up at 4:45am for work or 7am if not working
Fast till around 1pm w/ only water and 2-3cups coffee (hunger, energy, mood are all non issues)
I break the fast w/ a mixed meal P/C and a little F - maybe 600-700kcal
I then train from 3-5pm and do some whey PWO
Get home and feast till around 9ish - im not too worried about 30min here or there so sometimes the eating window is slightly more than 8hrs and sometiems less.
I like to have a big clean meal to get my nutrients in for the day then i get to make up my carbs w/ something more special - like LF ice cream etc.
Prebed i always have CC, whey, apple, sultanas and bran just cos i love it
Then i fast through till 1pm the next day.

It really is so simple. Fast 16hrs, then get your daily cals in an 8hr window. Saves alot of time in food prep and eating and i find myself more energetic, alert and sociable whilst fasting. It really has been perfect for me

[Martin Berkhan]

I don't understand the reason behind working out in a fasted state. Around your workout is when nutrient partitioning is best. Why would you substitute calories from a time when they are definitely going to be used to build muscle or replace muscle glycogen --periworkout-- to a time when they are more likely to be stored as fat. Also, Martin, I think it seems a little ironic to be badmouthing people who go on raving non scientifically when to my knowledge there is no science supporting fasted state workouts.

As Matthor said, I am doing them as part of an experiment. My default method is always a pre-workout meal; however, I have found no impact on my progress, which tends to be quite linear, during these last four weeks of fasted state workouts. In fact, I feel subjectively better and even more amped in the fasted state. I even have some wild speculations whetever working out in a fasted state may ever so slightly increase strength due to increased catecholamine output. For example, the 590 lbs dead for a triple was performed after an 18 hr fast.

With regards to your other comments about the pre-workout meal

"definitely going to be used to build muscle or replace muscle glycogen --periworkout-- to a time when they are more likely to be stored as fat"

Context dependent. Since the caloric "sink" is directly proportional to your energy expenditure during the workout, it's a presumptuous to assume that calories consumed during other times of the day will be more likely to be stored as fat. And if you aren't depleting your muscle's glycogen stores regularily through exercise, in combination with a low carb diet, you will have plenty of glycogen available to complete a fasted state workout.

[Shion]

This seems pretty interesting. What I've been doing for the past three months day and night just doesn't seem to be cutting it the way I expected it to. Say, for those 8 hours when I'm racking the food in, do the same 'rules' apply as to a regular eating plan seen here? Say, 1-2g of protein per pound of lean body mass, caloric intake (under or over maintenance for best results? Seems unclear), fats, carbs, macros...?

[friedrice683]

Ok so say I wanted to try this out, I workout in the morning, how do I do this =/?

Wake up

Coffee/water before workout
Workout
PWO I currently have 1 scoop whey, 1c milk, 2/3c Oatmeal

Now how would I do this since I workout in the morning, when do I stop eating, what happens if I get hungry ?

Thanks

[The Director]

What about fat burners? are they okay to be taken on empty stomach for a period of time without food?

[Martin Berkhan]

What about fat burners? are they okay to be taken on empty stomach for a period of time without food?

Of course. The fast amplifies the effects, which is attested by myself and others getting more wired from caffeine for example.

[The Director]

Metabolism increases during the fast, contrary to popular belief.

.

Got any articles to read up on this? I googled it, nothing came up.

[AzureEyesD]

Alright if Matthor is doing this I am in lol

How do I find out more?

[The Director]

Problem with this is, all the guys Ive read that have tried this, are all lean, I mean, if you're that lean already, going on a keto diet would do exactly what intermittent fasting would do to YOU. Id like to see someone over 20% bodyfat share his experience.

[AzureEyesD]

I don't think your BF would make that big of a difference.

This sounds very similar to the warrior diet.

And now that I think about it it makes a lot of sense.

I can't wait for the book to come out, I have been thinking a lot about the lifestyle lately and 6 squeeky clean meals a day is just not going to be realistic for me for my entire life. Especially with how much traveling I plan to do with my future career.

[oaks]

I have been thinking a lot about the lifestyle lately and 6 squeeky clean meals a day is just not going to be realistic for me for my entire life. Especially with how much traveling I plan to do with my future career.

I agree man...Im gonna be starting an Accounting job with a pretty big firm, in a couple of months, and i know that this 6 meals a day thing wont cut it, when i do start....ive been looking for an alternative, and so i was looking to get some more info on how this diet works exactly...seems like it would fit my lifestyle a bit better...i hate having to try to squeeze all of my meals in each day

[AzureEyesD]

I agree man...Im gonna be starting an Accounting job with a pretty big firm, in a couple of months, and i know that this 6 meals a day thing wont cut it, when i do start....ive been looking for an alternative, and so i was looking to get some more info on how this diet works exactly...seems like it would fit my lifestyle a bit better...i hate having to try to squeeze all of my meals in each day

X2

I also need something that will fit in when I go study abroad in Japan next year. This would be so perfect. Get up go to class, maybe do some sightseeing, eat pre workout, workout, then go home and eat my host family under the table lol, the whole time telling them how great they are at cooking in japanese hahahaha.

If you do go through with the lifestyle change we should stay in touch and share results.

[Martin Berkhan]

Got any articles to read up on this? I googled it, nothing came up.

For example

Zauner et al (2007)

"Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased as
a result of an increase in serum norepinephrine" Am J Clin Nutr 2000;71:1511?5.


and


Chan et al (2007)

"Short-term fasting-induced autonomic activation and changes
in catecholamine levels are not mediated by changes in leptin
levels in healthy humans" Clinical Endocrinology (2007)66, 49?57

[oaks]

If you do go through with the lifestyle change we should stay in touch and share results.

yea for sure man...i wanna try to track down a good article or two, to explain exactly what this diet entails...

[Martin Berkhan]

Problem with this is, all the guys Ive read that have tried this, are all lean, I mean, if you're that lean already, going on a keto diet would do exactly what intermittent fasting would do to YOU. Id like to see someone over 20% bodyfat share his experience.

I have clients with 20%+ bf and they are doing great. Some of them are, for the first time in their lives, finding that they can show 100% adherance to a diet protocol. I modify the caloric guidelines and macros depending on bf%, as my first priority is always to lean people down if necessary, but besides that I don't see how bodyfat would play into making or breaking an intermittent fasting diet.

There are many psychological sides to eating and I think having smaller meals, even if they are low carb, throughout the day may be a bad choice for some people (triggering appetite for example); knowing you can have a very substantial meal after the fast makes dietary adherance very easy. IME this is one great benefit to IF, pertaining to people with a high bf% (which are usually big eaters).

[Martin Berkhan]

yea for sure man...i wanna try to track down a good article or two, to explain exactly what this diet entails...

If you haven't already visited my blog: leangains.blogspot.com