Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[doctapeppa]

The only time I can schedule my weight training is in the morning. Should I eat/drink anything before my workout, ie protein shake? I have my big meal after this, and then i fast again until my next feed which is the post workout meal next day.

Try reading a little bit and then come and ask a question.

Here's a good starting point: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

[DenD359]

Fasting is known to cause sleep problems. The main reason is that one of the hormones that is increased while you fast is adrenaline. The bigger your caloric deficit and the longer you have been fasting for the more adrenaline you have in your bloodstream. You should get used to this as time goes by but there are some things you can try as well.

- Increase your calories. If you are in a big caloric deficit you may need to ease up on it a bit and loose weight a bit slower.

- If you are starting your fast earlier in the day instead of eating your last meal before bed then moving your feeding window later may help as well because while you are in bed you haven't been fasted for long and don't have much adrenaline yet.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Decided to wait till last night to respond to this, couldn't sleep again. Yep, I always have a feast before I go to sleep, which is usually 3-4 hours prior to. The thing is, it's always around 800-1100 calories and I like the feeling of being full to the max, could this be why? I'll still deload my workout this week too since I do feel tired throughout the day.

[jerryiii]

I've been doing some research on Martin's program as well as a couple of other intermittent fasting protocols. I'm sure this has been covered already and if so maybe someone can refer me to the correct page of this thread.

Anyway, my question is in regards to amino acids (bcaa) during the fast phase to reduce catabolism. Can a small amount be used periodically without breaking the fast and hence losing all of the hormonal benefits of being in the fasted state. If so what would be the optimum amount and frequency.

[doctapeppa]

I've been doing some research on Martin's program as well as a couple of other intermittent fasting protocols. I'm sure this has been covered already and if so maybe someone can refer me to the correct page of this thread.

Anyway, my question is in regards to amino acids (bcaa) during the fast phase to reduce catabolism. Can a small amount be used periodically without breaking the fast and hence losing all of the hormonal benefits of being in the fasted state. If so what would be the optimum amount and frequency.

If you take BCAA you are not fasted. Martin recommends to take BCAA before weight training if you are training fasted and that's it. If you take it at any other point during the fast you are not fasted and if you take it at any time during your eating window it is wasted since this is already found in food. A lot of us aren't even taking it at all and still making great improvements.

[doctapeppa]

Decided to wait till last night to respond to this, couldn't sleep again. Yep, I always have a feast before I go to sleep, which is usually 3-4 hours prior to. The thing is, it's always around 800-1100 calories and I like the feeling of being full to the max, could this be why? I'll still deload my workout this week too since I do feel tired throughout the day.

If this continues you should go and see your doctor. It may not be related to IF at all and a checkup is always a good idea.

Just as much as going to sleep fasted can keep you up at night so can having a full belly, everyone is different. Try changing around your meals and see if that works for you. If not, quit IF'ing. If you are lacking sleep that is very likely what's causing you to be tired throughout the day. I'm not convinced a deload is going to help this.

[doctapeppa]

Earlier today Martin tweeted this: http://twitter.com/#!/Martinberkhan/status/27871120635

Check out how many votes he has in the comments!

http://www.healthhabits.ca/2010/10/1...tness-blogger/

[determined4000]

Another factor which is a huge confounder that needs to be considered when applying this to real life, is that other factors like food volume, GI, and food type are very important as well. Studies examining this has almost always been done with liquids in order to not confound the results, i.e. 400 kcal worth of carbs or fat in a liquid solution of 500 mg water followed by blood tests and Visusal Analog Scale-testing (basically a questionnaire, "How full are you now?", etc), every 2 hrs, etc.

In practice, this means that 600 kcal of salmon, whole eggs & broccolli (high protein, high fat) would satiate better in both short and long-term than cereal, skim milk and whey protein (high protein, high carb) even if the latter example should win out "on paper" so to speak.

Completely agree with everything you say
I myself Do a higher fat/lower carb diet
Your example is correct as well. But my point was similar to yours as the source (not just the macro) needs to be considered. Just like meat/veg/egg (fat/protein) would be better than cereal, skim, whey (carb/protein) for satiety, a sweet potato and lean meat (protein/carb) would be more satisfying than whey and nuts (protein/fat).

[zmustang]

If you take BCAA you are not fasted. Martin recommends to take BCAA before weight training if you are training fasted and that's it. If you take it at any other point during the fast you are not fasted and if you take it at any time during your eating window it is wasted since this is already found in food. A lot of us aren't even taking it at all and still making great improvements.

If you read Martins suggestions on fasted or early morning training he does say that taking BCAAs such as purple wrath is not considered breaking the fast. If you lift at 8am and take 10g before and after workout you can still consider yourself fasted until your usual afternoon meal or whenever your window opens.


Also (jerryiiii) the primary goal of BCAAs, as I understood it, is not to stave off catabolism but to allow protein synthesis to begin so as to get the most benefit from your workout. (dont worry about your muscles falling off if you don't right away).

[doctapeppa]

If you read Martins suggestions on fasted or early morning training he does say that taking BCAAs such as purple wrath is not considered breaking the fast. If you lift at 8am and take 10g before and after workout you can still consider yourself fasted until your usual afternoon meal or whenever your window opens.


Also (jerryiiii) the primary goal of BCAAs, as I understood it, is not to stave off catabolism but to allow protein synthesis to begin so as to get the most benefit from your workout. (dont worry about your muscles falling off if you don't right away).

I don't need to read anything on Martin's site about BCAA as I have fairly good grasp of metabolism and physiology, thank you. "BCAA" products including the product Xtend most certainly break the fast. These products contains 3 amino acids that have a nutritive value and they cause your pancreas to secrete insulin and initiate other events in your body that are part of the "fed" state. Taking BCAA breaks the fast in every single sense of the word. Now, the effect is minimal but if it didn't happen there would be no point in taking it.

What Martin has said is that it is an acceptable compromise because of the potential benefits that it might provide. If you follow martin's advice you can take 10 grams of BCAA while in a fasted state before a workout and every 2 or so hours and not count it towards your feeding window. It is not an essential part of this diet and it is not essential to put on muscle.

[swaneon]

im still a little weary, can i take casein protein before i go to bed?

[wazzup105]

im still a little weary, can i take casein protein before i go to bed?

If it falls within your feeding period .. sure.

Why are you weary about it ?

[iDrive]

People who come here worrying about taking BCAA's during the fast to prevent their muscles from falling off or taking a "slow digesting protein" before bed for the same always remind me of Desmond from Lost who must Press the Button ... he doesn't know why, he just has to do it.

[karoline8]

Good morning all I just wanted to share that I've been doing IF for a few months now and am still loving it . My weight is pretty much stable now but I am noticing fat loss weekly and my training is going great...no strength losses, only gains and my speed and endurance awesome as well (I've been doing 2 15-18k runs weekly with 5k of that being up STEEP hills all while in a fasted state with a total average time of 7:20 min mile!!! ). I have an insane amount of energy, it feels like I'm ready to go every moment...I'm even starting to get messages on ******** from locals noticing the shape I'm getting in...lol...and the only "foods" I consume during the fast are teas, 2c. coffee, and water...another wonderful thing about this lifestyle for me is that I now eat whatever I want, as much as I want, and way more than I use to and am still leaning out...I can't see me going back to the "normal" way of eating ever again...
I just had to share this experience I'm having, hope I didn't bore anyone but I had to gush a bit and most everyone I know doesen't want to hear about this..and if they do it's almost always to tell me that I'm starving myself...lol...which is funny as I eat more than most men I know...have a great day everyone.

[hamton]

I think most people worried about BCAA are coming from the 6 meals/day to 3 meals day. Just the thought of your muscles going hungry and wasting away is bothersome. Just can't let go of old habits. I'll admit, I used to be one of those people. I remember getting annoyed and upset when meetings went too long and cutting into my 3rd meal of 6. When the meeting ended, I hurried up and ate. Disaster avoided.

Now I eat two meals a day, work out fasted at 6am, don't eat until 12 noon. I take BCAA before workout, but sometimes don't take it afterwards. My energy is the highest ever. I was never a morning person, sometimes crawling out of bed at 11am on the weekends. Not anymore.

[jd408]

any info on supps breaking fast or do they get a pass?
Things like Multi, omegas, Glucosamine, bronkaid, yohimbine, L-tryosine, caffeine pills, ect
mostly those Im curious about if they should only be used in the eating window or is it ok to take them outside the window as well

[hamton]

any info on supps breaking fast or do they get a pass?
Things like Multi, omegas, Glucosamine, bronkaid, yohimbine, L-tryosine, caffeine pills, ect
mostly those Im curious about if they should only be used in the eating window or is it ok to take them outside the window as well

You should be fine with those. Not sure about omegas though. I assume fish oil. But then that's only 1-2 grams. Not that big of a deal.

[ob205]

any info on supps breaking fast or do they get a pass?
Things like Multi, omegas, Glucosamine, bronkaid, yohimbine, L-tryosine, caffeine pills, ect
mostly those Im curious about if they should only be used in the eating window or is it ok to take them outside the window as well

I think the only one in the group would be the fish oil (omega-3) since it has calories, the others no.

[jd408]

good to hear, thanks guys. been wanting to up Glucosamine for sure.
also will start taking multi soon as I get out of bed in the morning now without the worry.
I'll just do the fish oils during my eating window

[mynameisuntz]

I've been IF'ing for a good month now and absolutely love it. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this as I just recently have begun to:

I can legitimately go 20 hours now without feeling like I need to eat. I've done it just to experiment, but I say this just to show that I don't really get the excessive feelings of hunger I did before IF. But I notice that if I drink a lot of fluid in the morning (specifically, a good 16 fl. oz. of green tea), that I get ridiculously hungry. I've done this a few times and notice that each time I do, I feel far more hungry.

Anyone else relate to this or have any sort of explanation?

[Seer00]

I've been IF'ing for a good month now and absolutely love it. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this as I just recently have begun to:

I can legitimately go 20 hours now without feeling like I need to eat. I've done it just to experiment, but I say this just to show that I don't really get the excessive feelings of hunger I did before IF. But I notice that if I drink a lot of fluid in the morning (specifically, a good 16 fl. oz. of green tea), that I get ridiculously hungry. I've done this a few times and notice that each time I do, I feel far more hungry.

Anyone else relate to this or have any sort of explanation?

Is it plain green tea or are you adding sugar, honey, and or milk/cream? Do you notice it if it is just water instead of tea?

[mynameisuntz]

Is it plain green tea or are you adding sugar, honey, and or milk/cream? Do you notice it if it is just water instead of tea?

Straight up green tea - nothing added.

I haven't had 16 oz. of just water immediately in the morning like I do tea. If anything just a gulp or two. Maybe I'll try water tomorrow and see what happens

[determined4000]

Straight up green tea - nothing added.

I haven't had 16 oz. of just water immediately in the morning like I do tea. If anything just a gulp or two. Maybe I'll try water tomorrow and see what happens

Most of my beverages are caffeinated during fasting.
Caffeine pretty much wipes out any feelings of hunger.
ALso try a shot of apple cider vinegar if it happens.

[malibu2008]

Most of my beverages are caffeinated during fasting.
Caffeine pretty much wipes out any feelings of hunger.
ALso try a shot of apple cider vinegar if it happens.

funny you mentioned that.... i would recommend anyone coming off the 6 meals a day and switching to IF to take a shot of raw ACV before their food b/c it will help with the food load and nutrient assimilation as well as digestion

[aer_vlad]

I've been IF'ing for a good month now and absolutely love it. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this as I just recently have begun to:

I can legitimately go 20 hours now without feeling like I need to eat. I've done it just to experiment, but I say this just to show that I don't really get the excessive feelings of hunger I did before IF. But I notice that if I drink a lot of fluid in the morning (specifically, a good 16 fl. oz. of green tea), that I get ridiculously hungry. I've done this a few times and notice that each time I do, I feel far more hungry.

Anyone else relate to this or have any sort of explanation?

I've actually had the same issue. If I drink anything other then water, I get hungry in the afternoon. I usually drink decaf green tea though, so no hunger suppression from the caffeine.

[BIGrob84]

Do you guys limit carbs on non-workout days?

[Danco3636]

Do you guys limit carbs on non-workout days?

yes
lower carbs on non resistance days
higher on resistance days

Don't make everyday a resistance day.... so lower really on rest days

[Sith Emperor]

I have a few questions as I have just ordered the Warrior Diet book.

1. What is the prime difference between IF and Warrior Diet?

2. I've been reading that's it's better to have a fast day once or twice a week rather than every day. Is this accurate?

3. If #2 is accurate, on a fast day do I work out in the afternoon or evening, an hour before I eat?

4. Can I combine the Warrior Diet with CKD for maximum effects?

5. Would a weekly carb up with CKD affect the Warrior Diet?

[sunngodd]

I have a few questions as I have just ordered the Warrior Diet book.

1. What is the prime difference between IF and Warrior Diet?

2. I've been reading that's it's better to have a fast day once or twice a week rather than every day. Is this accurate?

3. If #2 is accurate, on a fast day do I work out in the afternoon or evening, an hour before I eat?

4. Can I combine the Warrior Diet with CKD for maximum effects?

5. Would a weekly carb up with CKD affect the Warrior Diet?

1. My understanding is that the warrior diet allows you to have small snacks during the day. Also, I think certain foods are restricted, wheras IF is simply a meal frequency pattern.

2. IF is everyday.

Don't know enough about keto or the warrior diet to answer the rest. Maybe you should find a warrior dier thread.

[doctapeppa]

I have a few questions as I have just ordered the Warrior Diet book.

1. What is the prime difference between IF and Warrior Diet?

2. I've been reading that's it's better to have a fast day once or twice a week rather than every day. Is this accurate?

3. If #2 is accurate, on a fast day do I work out in the afternoon or evening, an hour before I eat?

4. Can I combine the Warrior Diet with CKD for maximum effects?

5. Would a weekly carb up with CKD affect the Warrior Diet?

Hello. It seems you have your IF's confused. Don't worry it can be confusing at first. Read here for a quick summary: http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/bri...oaches-to.html

In this thread we are talking about the "Leangains" Approach to Intermittent fasting. Feel free to read thought the other posts in this thread. There is a ton of information. The basic guide is here: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

There's a thread here on the Warrior diet: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113316481

[Sith Emperor]

Hello. It seems you have your IF's confused. Don't worry it can be confusing at first. Read here for a quick summary: http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/bri...oaches-to.html

In this thread we are talking about the "Leangains" Approach to Intermittent fasting. Feel free to read thought the other posts in this thread. There is a ton of information. The basic guide is here: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

There's a thread here on the Warrior diet: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113316481

Thanks for the information, going to read up on that. But would my questions being less valid if I have the IFs confused? I mean would there be different answers depending on whether I do a 20/4 Warrior Diet or a 16/8 IF diet?