Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[determined4000]

Fat:28g-30g

I am assuming im taking in a decent amount of protein/carb/fats , And im getting my healthy fats about 10G from the protein bar. Will be looking into omega-3 capsules in a bit .

way too low in fat
and what healthy fat from the protein bar?
It is probably palm oil which is horrible for you.

[ArgentineMuscle]

way too low in fat
and what healthy fat from the protein bar?
It is probably palm oil which is horrible for you.

you're a genius man..... I bought the Premier nutrition brand , And I am going to just reduce some portions im guessing to atleast add a Whole egg and omega-3 , aswell as Extra virgin olive oil.

Edit: One question I had based on this style of eating/training, ummm eating a whole load of carbs at night together with protein/fat is fine ??? I actually just thought about it nobody has had any negative affects like fat gains during this or ....am I suppose to go low carb on this ??

[ChinoZ32]

Hello, just wanted to chime in and say that I have been following the IF diet for several weeks now after trying the warrior diet for about a month..basically I just eliminated the fruits that I was eating on the warrior diet during the day and only take in coffee, tea, water during my 16 hour fast..I love this diet/lifestyle..my strength keeps going up and up and my body weight has increased about 12 pounds since switching over to IF and I am leaner than ever...whoever says you cant build muscle and burn fat at the same time has never tried the IF diet..I am a believer and proof is in the pudding as the saying goes...

Hey mate, what's your calorie intake like on both training and off days? Curious. Cheers.

[MarkVI]

Hello everyone!
First I'd like to thanks Martin for providing information and proofs about this diet and for helping us to reach our goals!
I was sceptical about this whole not eating during the day things but I started doing WD after christmas and I loved it. I started a small bulk after it but now I'm back and doing the IF approach.

My strength progression is the same as before and I get leaner with every day. I love how I don't have to worry about carrying around food and when I eat I can eat till I'm satisfied.
I will keep cutting for a while till like mid summer or when I feel I'm lean enough then I will slowly increase my calorie intake to increase muscle gain.
I just started doing the Starting Strength routine, will see how it works.

Some people mentioned they use EC stack, too bad ephedrine is only available by prescription. Would like to try how it works.
So I can say I'm totally satisfied with this eating method, easier to follow than any other kind of diet I tryed and got much more benefits then just losing weight.

However I'd like to ask if there is any research or medical opinion about the effects of this method on your stomach. Does the stomach acid cause anything while fasting, since there is nothing it can break down other then wall of your stomach. Is my question totally stupid since acid production is caused by food consumption or is there any logic in it?
One of the people I told about IF pointed this out, tryed to search about is but couldn't find reliable info.

Thanks a lot for your answer and good luck with your goals


GJ Erick, nice progress!

Not encouraging ephedra use but you can buy EPH diet pills on line or at your local pharmacy with no prescription

[trappi53]

Not encouraging ephedra use but you can buy EPH diet pills on line or at your local pharmacy with no prescription

I live in Hungary and they are only available by prescription

[anonymous]

Don't know if this wrong or not, but when I sip on some diet soda between fasting periods, it doesn't even feel like I'm fasting anymore!

For an even more unconventional twist, I add in some bcaa powder!

What do you all think?

[bretter]

For an even more unconventional twist, I add in some bcaa powder!

What do you all think?

adding in bcaa during the fast will increase insulin.......... I'd think this will negate some of the benefits of the fast. However, calorie control seems too be the number one benefit of IF for myself at least, which is what leads to fat loss in the first place.

More knowledgeable people, correct me if need be.

[ewitte]

From the leangains website if your workingout fasted its recommended 10g BCAA 5-15 minutes before working out. Its a low enough that the effect isn't that much. Actually just the working out will negate most of the fasting benefits from what I recall. Which is just another reason the workout is positioned immediately before the feeding cycle.

[Milone79]

Hey mate, what's your calorie intake like on both training and off days? Curious. Cheers.

Right now I am about 3,500 cal./day on training days...non training days I drop this slightly by about 200-300 cals...I have a complete breakdown of my daily intake if you would like to know how I eat exactly...

[bretter]

I'm cutting. Wanted some input...

I treat a 2+ hour high intensity MMA workout (think burning 1000+ cals) like a training day and follow it up with a high carb PWO type meal just like a weight lifting session. Makes sense to me and thats what ive been doing..... Agree with this?

I know carbs are lower on off days but I prob burn more calories on MMA days than weight lifting days. I use my actual "off-training" days to create the majority of my weekly deficit by making them PSMF days. Then hike up cals just under maintenance on Weights/MMA days.

Thanks

[TJM5054]

Man I ate breakfast for the first time today in the morning in the longest time. Feel like **** all day so far.

[anonymous]

adding in bcaa during the fast will increase insulin..........

wat

It has no calories...quite in fact, Martin himself suggests (instead of protein shakes) that you take in BCAAs (or any other kind of Amino acid powder) before/during/after workouts.

Insulin isn't an issue here.

That much I'm sure of, though.

[ewitte]

wat

It has no calories...quite in fact, Martin himself suggests (instead of protein shakes) that you take in BCAAs (or any other kind of Amino acid powder) before/during/after workouts.

Insulin isn't an issue here.

That much I'm sure of, though.

Yes its still 4Cal per gram. you need much less than with protein. read the site carefully. Big difference between not significant and none.

[bretter]

Don't know if this wrong or not, but when I sip on some diet soda between fasting periods, it doesn't even feel like I'm fasting anymore!

For an even more unconventional twist, I add in some bcaa powder!

What do you all think?

BCAA DO RAISE INSULIN. The point of fasting is lowered insulin.

wat

It has no calories...quite in fact, Martin himself suggests (instead of protein shakes) that you take in BCAAs (or any other kind of Amino acid powder) before/during/after workouts.

Insulin isn't an issue here.

I agree 90%.

[anonymous]

Yes its still 4Cal per gram. you need much less than with protein. read the site carefully. Big difference between not significant and none.

This is the product I use: [Link]

I don't see any thing about calories there.

[ewitte]

To be honest I can care less if there is a bit of insulin response 60 minutes before a feeding window. The purpose is preserve muscle. There was already 14-15+ hours of fasting. Actually closer to 20 for me since my refeed window is 4 hours and I'm mostly eating within 1h (until I'm trying to gain).

[ewitte]

This is the product I use: [Link]

I don't see any thing about calories there.

Because they did not list it. Its labled as a supplement not a food item. This one lists 1g of protein but nothing under Calories lol

http://dailyburn.com/nutrition/optim...owder_calories

EDIT: Looked up a bit of information. While it does have Calories they are not used (digested) so both views are technically correct. However it does still have a slight insulin response.

[anonymous]

BCAA DO RAISE INSULIN. The point of fasting is lowered insulin.

While I don't claim to know sh*t about the science behind it all, I would think that since there are no sugars involved, there's no chance that anything gets stored as fat.

Insulin in this case would be good since nutrients (or in this case the BCAAS) would get shuttled to the muscles.

[ewitte]

While I don't claim to know sh*t about the science behind it all, I would think that since there are no sugars involved, there's no chance that anything gets stored as fat.

Insulin in this case would be good since nutrients (or in this case the BCAAS) would get shuttled to the muscles.

Also can make you hungrier. That is good/fine as long as your refeed window is after the workout.

[ob205]

I'm cutting. Wanted some input...

I treat a 2+ hour high intensity MMA workout (think burning 1000+ cals) like a training day and follow it up with a high carb PWO type meal just like a weight lifting session. Makes sense to me and thats what ive been doing..... Agree with this?

I know carbs are lower on off days but I prob burn more calories on MMA days than weight lifting days. I use my actual "off-training" days to create the majority of my weekly deficit by making them PSMF days. Then hike up cals just under maintenance on Weights/MMA days.

Thanks

Yes, I think you can use the high carb PWO after MMA since you depleted glycogen doing MMA and you want to refuel for your next weight training workout.

[bretter]

While I don't claim to know sh*t about the science behind it all, I would think that since there are no sugars involved, there's no chance that anything gets stored as fat.

Insulin in this case would be good since nutrients (or in this case the BCAAS) would get shuttled to the muscles.

The fast lowers insulin. Insulin inhibits fat oxidation. Bcaa increase insulin. Lowered insulin is one of the benefits of the fast. Insulin is released every time you eat anything. No bcaa in the middle of the fast is my opinion. Right before your workout bcaa or eaa are required if training fasted.

btw, insulin doesn't make you fat. Too many calories and too much insulin make you fat. (caloric surplus, insulin resistance, etc.)

However, IMO it won't really matter a whole lot as long as you are in a deficit. That is, assuming you are trying to lose fat.

Maybe martin will chime in here.....

[Martin Berkhan]

BCAA around workouts only.

[bretter]

Thats what I thought. Thanks Martin.

[Milone79]

LONDON - Running on empty may not be such a bad idea after all.


Though many athletes eat before training, some scientists say that if you really want to get rid of more fat, you should skip the pre-workout snack.


Several studies suggest exercising while your body is low on food may be a good way to trim excess fat. In a recent paper, European researchers found that cyclists who trained without eating burned significantly more fat than their counterparts who ate.


Muscles usually get their energy from carbohydrates, which is why athletes like Lance Armstrong and Michael Phelps scarf down enormous amounts of food before a race. But if you haven't eaten before exercising, your body doesn't have many carbohydrates in reserve. That forces it to burn fat instead, scientists say.


"When you exercise (after fasting), your adrenalin is high and your insulin is low," said Peter Hespel, a professor of exercise physiology at the University of Leuven in Belgium. "That ratio is favourable for your muscles to oxidize (break down) more fatty acids." Hespel said that people who exercise without having eaten burn more fat than they would if they had grabbed a bite beforehand.


In a study published in April, researchers at the University of Birmingham and elsewhere assigned seven people to cycle three days a week, followed by an intense session an hour later without eating. Another seven people followed the same regime, without the instruction to fast.


Though members of the group that didn't eat performed worse on the intensive training, they burned a higher proportion of fat to carbohydrates than the group that ate. The results were published by Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, the journal of the American College of Sports Medicine.


In a 2008 study, Hespel and colleagues tested the effects on men who did endurance training without eating versus those who ate. In the athletes who hadn't eaten, the researchers found a spike in the amount of proteins needed to process fat, meaning their bodies had been primed through fasting to burn more fat.


Hespel recommends people do this kind of training before breakfast, since eating carbohydrates interrupts the process of metabolizing fat for about six hours afterward.


Though he and colleagues have primarily studied the effects of exercising without eating in young, healthy people, he thinks the method could also help people with problems like diabetes. Because exercising without eating produces muscles that are better at absorbing glucose — which is important for preventing diabetes — Hespel theorized the strategy would also help diabetics control their insulin levels.


Other experts said that even though people may burn more fat this way, it is mostly fat within the muscles that will be lost and won't make a big difference to people trying to lose weight.


"When you exercise (without eating), fat is broken down more quickly in the muscle," said Andrew Greenberg, director of the Obesity and Metabolism Laboratory at Tufts University. "You may enhance how you burn the fat in the muscles, but it doesn't affect your overall body fat," Greenberg said. He said more intense exercise may prompt the body to burn more fatty acids in other regions of the body, but that a lot of training would be required to see a big difference.


For recreational athletes interested in maximizing their exercise regimen, some experts recommend a regular training session where you deliberately do not eat beforehand.


"Science is finally catching up with what smart runners have always known," said Ron Maughan, a professor of sport, exercise and health sciences at Loughborough University in Britain. "If you have a long, hard run without breakfast once a week, that hard run will train you to burn fat," he said. "And for the rest of the week, have plenty of carbohydrates so you can train hard."


Maughan cautioned against doing too much exercise on an empty stomach. "That might help you get very good at burning fat, but you won't be very good at whatever exercise it is you're doing," he said. "Without enough fuel, you won't get the intensity of training you need to get improvements."


Others were more skeptical and said people shouldn't exercise without having at least a small snack first.


"I think it's actually a pretty bad idea," said Dr. Alexis Chiang Colvin, a sports medicine expert at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York who has worked with professional football and hockey teams.

"If your blood sugar is low, you could wind up getting dizzy and you might not be able to exercise as well as if you were well-nourished," she said. Colvin recommended having something small like a banana before training. She also warned the strategy might make people more prone to injury and that eating was important so the body would have enough nutrients to recover from a bout of exercise.

Hespel acknowledged the method wasn't for everybody and that aside from the pain of struggling through an exercise session while hungry, there are other potential pitfalls.

"When you postpone breakfast to exercise, it is possible you might eat more afterwards," he said. "People exercising (without eating) need to respect all the normal strategies of weight control like not overeating."

Daniel Kobbina, a personal trainer who also runs a martial arts school in London, said the method requires discipline — but it works.

"If you train on an empty stomach, you'll see that six-pack a lot sooner," he said.

[Insight]

"When you exercise (after fasting), your adrenalin is high and your insulin is low," said Peter Hespel, a professor of exercise physiology at the University of Leuven in Belgium. "That ratio is favourable for your muscles to oxidize (break down) more fatty acids." Hespel said that people who exercise without having eaten burn more fat than they would if they had grabbed a bite beforehand.

Wouldn't the use of fat vs glycogen for fuel depend more on %VO2 max than anything else? As in high intensity cardio, when fasted, would use more glycogen, and LISS would burn more fat.

"When you postpone breakfast to exercise, it is possible you might eat more afterwards," he said. "People exercising (without eating) need to respect all the normal strategies of weight control like not overeating."

LOL, great strategy.

[thesis88]

I want to try a 16/8 plan, starting my eating at noon. Is it okay if I do weight training sometime during my eating period instead of fasted? I'm at work until about 4pm everyday, and work out right after I leave work.

[EmperorRyker]

I want to try a 16/8 plan, starting my eating at noon. Is it okay if I do weight training sometime during my eating period instead of fasted? I'm at work until about 4pm everyday, and work out right after I leave work.

Yeah, you're good.

[Malkira]

I want to try a 16/8 plan, starting my eating at noon. Is it okay if I do weight training sometime during my eating period instead of fasted? I'm at work until about 4pm everyday, and work out right after I leave work.

Yes, look at Martin's different protocols. I follow this one:
1:00pm Meal 1: (25% of calories)
4:00pm Meal 2: (25% of calories)
4:45pm Workout
6:00pm-9:00pm: Remaining 50% of calories

[thesis88]

Yes, look at Martin's different protocols. I follow this one:
1:00pm Meal 1: (25% of calories)
4:00pm Meal 2: (25% of calories)
4:45pm Workout
6:00pm-9:00pm: Remaining 50% of calories

Awesome. I happened to plan out my meals pretty close to that breakdown.

[Jerbz]

Do you guys still refeed? Or take your high carb days as enough carb loading for the week