Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[oaks]

On a weight training day, lets say Monday:

Either up at 4:45am for work or 7am if not working
Fast till around 1pm w/ only water and 2-3cups coffee (hunger, energy, mood are all non issues)
I break the fast w/ a mixed meal P/C and a little F - maybe 600-700kcal
I then train from 3-5pm and do some whey PWO
Get home and feast till around 9ish - im not too worried about 30min here or there so sometimes the eating window is slightly more than 8hrs and sometiems less.
I like to have a big clean meal to get my nutrients in for the day then i get to make up my carbs w/ something more special - like LF ice cream etc.
Prebed i always have CC, whey, apple, sultanas and bran just cos i love it
Then i fast through till 1pm the next day.

It really is so simple. Fast 16hrs, then get your daily cals in an 8hr window. Saves alot of time in food prep and eating and i find myself more energetic, alert and sociable whilst fasting. It really has been perfect for me

Thanks for the tips there matthor...one more question for u...did u find that you had to increase/decrease your cals when you first switched over to this diet, from what you were eating in your 5-6 smaller meals...or did u keep your overall cals the same in this 8 hr window?

[AzureEyesD]

Also, what do you do on non-workout days?

[matthor]

Thanks for the tips there matthor...one more question for u...did u find that you had to increase/decrease your cals when you first switched over to this diet, from what you were eating in your 5-6 smaller meals...or did u keep your overall cals the same in this 8 hr window?

initially i kept my cals the same for each day ie: WO, cardio, rest days and discovered I was leaning out a bit more which inspired me to tweak thigns slightly and try to add some very LBM. All i have done is put some more calories in my PWO window on lifting days and reduced them slightly on off days so my weekly total is up by a bit. I havent been doing this for that long so cant quite comment on it yet

Also, what do you do on non-workout days?

personally I havent gone very low calorie in years so im never below ~2000-2100kcals. ON rest days i formerly had cals at around 2400 but i have since reduced them to 2000-2100 as my PWO feasts have been increased.

2000kcals would have me starving on conventional meal patterns but with IF im stuffed and dont go hungry at all

[Crunchbar]

I am a little confused as to how one actually goes about this IF diet.... what are the guidelines. Eat 8 hrs and fast 16hrs is too vague

Do you still keep the same macros and micros
How many meels do u eat in the 8 hrs
Do you need to be constantly eating for 8 hrs??
Can u break the fast time up into peices? or is it 1 constant 16hr fast? (IE could i fast from 12-8 then eat then fast again from 9-5)?

[-->aDAM*<--]

Question, although I know it may sound stupid.

Would you recommend this diet to a 16 year old?

and when is this book coming out?

[elvk]

i've failed over and over again at fixing my diet. i mean ive gotten close but never gotten it right on, the girlfriend is just oh so demanding. this seems like a life saver.

do you fast on off days?
i generally take half of my multi and omega 3 in the morning, should i cut that out?
do i fast on cardio days?

correct this if im wrong;
workout 10:00am - 10:45am, feast 3000 calories from 9am to my last meal at 5pm. fast until 9am again.

this will still put on the mass, correct?

[Belloc]

the only thing that actually worries me, and is keeping me from this diet is that consuming let's say 2000 cals after working out, even if spred tru 2 or 3 meals can be hard on the digestive system like the body wn't proper digest food

[matthor]

I am a little confused as to how one actually goes about this IF diet.... what are the guidelines. Eat 8 hrs and fast 16hrs is too vague

Do you still keep the same macros and micros
How many meels do u eat in the 8 hrs
Do you need to be constantly eating for 8 hrs??
Can u break the fast time up into peices? or is it 1 constant 16hr fast? (IE could i fast from 12-8 then eat then fast again from 9-5)?

1. You can probably afford to have carbs a bit higher due to the higher insulin sensitivity brought about by the fast and also training. But u do want to keep protein at the usual levels

2. U can eat as many meals as u like and are comfortable

3. No - see above

4. Breaking up the fast is not allowed - or it wont be a fast and you'll be missing the benefits. So stick with the 16/8 time frame

Question, although I know it may sound stupid.

Would you recommend this diet to a 16 year old?

and when is this book coming out?

Ill let Martin address this but I cant see a problem with a 16 yr old doing this approach provided your macros/calories still work out

do you fast on off days?
i generally take half of my multi and omega 3 in the morning, should i cut that out?
do i fast on cardio days?

correct this if im wrong;
workout 10:00am - 10:45am, feast 3000 calories from 9am to my last meal at 5pm. fast until 9am again.

this will still put on the mass, correct?

1. Yes u fast on every day. Id save the omega 3 to have with your first meal then the rest w/ another or later in the day

2. Morning workouts can be an issue as it is going to be harder to stop eating at 5pm so adherence may suffer. But you do have the theory right and if you wanna try it out and see if u can handle it, otherwise id go with something else. Maybe just bigger less frequent meals so its isnt so time consuming but not necessarily a fasting diet.

3. If your getting enough calories for mass building, you'll build mass.

[GeneGnomeX]

the only thing that actually worries me, and is keeping me from this diet is that consuming let's say 2000 cals after working out, even if spred tru 2 or 3 meals can be hard on the digestive system like the body wn't proper digest food

Huh? No... when there is an abundance being digested the body signals to slow digestion. It simply takes longer to digest. Eat the majority of foods from high quality animal sources and you'll have no problem digesting.

[gfundaro]

Would you recommend combining this with a ketogenic diet? In my mind, since I'm fat adapted, it would make sense. I wouldn't have to deal with the blood sugar crashes and during the fasted state I'd be in ketosis anyway. My workouts and all are find without carbs. Also, could I still perform a 12 hour carbup bi-weekly? Edit: And do you recommend jumping into this or gradually reducing meal frequency until you reach a 16 hour fast?

[DJohnson]

Very very interesting. I've been keeping an eye one IF stuff for a while now. I'll probably finally give this a try at the end of August when I'm on vacation for two weeks and decide whether to keep going or not from there.

[ballin06]

hi martin!
this all looks very interesting, i was wondering what the cost of a personal plan would be? let me know thanks

[AzureEyesD]

bumped

[Doobie2270]

Man, I have gotten really sick of spending half my day cooking and eating. My interest is very much piqued.

I don't quite understand what to do on non-workout days, though. Is it the same, but with less carbs and calories?

[darkvain]

Holy ****, seems like I caused an avalanche with my post - good to see that more people are interested in this new approach!

Martin, I hope you will elaborate on your protocol some more; as you see the BB community is not as close-minded as you thought - I am surprised as well.

As for myself, I started doing IF today as I want to try something new and I feel like this diet is easier to stick with than others (I am a horrible dieter, haha)
I would be really interested what kind of cardio you do, if you do any!

And I think it is a better idea to keep fasted training in an aerobic region, as in light cardio - maybe some calisthenics, but I?m interested in what you will find out about that later.

Thanks!

[Martin Berkhan]

Question, although I know it may sound stupid.

Would you recommend this diet to a 16 year old?

and when is this book coming out?

I would recommend whatever approach you find doable. That being said, I don't see any obstacles with a 16 year old doing Leangains/IF, besides having to cope with lack of understanding from family and peers.

I cannot give you a preliminary release date for the book yet.

[Martin Berkhan]

As for other questions, I will not reveal any more information outside the one posted on my blog. My setups vary between clients and is dependent on priorities; fat loss, recomposition or mass gain. You will have to wait for the book or deduct from information that is available. Another alternative would be personal consultations, which there is more information about on the blog.

Some common questions about my approach will be answered in the Leangains FAQ, which is a work in progress, and in an interview with one of this site's article contributors.

[elvk]

i'm excited, this should be excellent in college.

[Flex500]

Darkvain,

im not really surprised about the (lack of) responses. I get the impression that most of the people here are pretty narrowminded and dogmatic when it comes to nutrition. The "when and how's" of eating (6 meals a day, "starvation mode" etc) and other common bodybuilding jargon is heavily preached and is accepted as the undeniable truth. That's also why I shy away from this forum and frequent other boards where topics are discussed within a scientific, rather than "bro-scific", context.

That being said, I'll have some more pictures up on the blog in about a month or so when im done with the recomp protocol im currently doing.

I recently put up some vids where im sitting at 206-208 lbs @ 8-9% bf, which would be 8 lbs of LBM gained since my avatar pic (which was taken in november). I hope to hit 6%-7% in the end of august, which would be a net gain of 22-24 lbs LBM in about a year, doing various forms of IF (cycling calories and playing around with macros).

I actually think the idea might have some merits, but you do understand why people are hesitant right, I mean....

you realize there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands and thousands of people here saying the same thing as you. The EXACT same thing as you. That they have a great new idea with science to back it up that is untraditional to help gain, muscle, lose fat, etc. etc. etc.

Point being if we tried everyones "new thing" we'd be switching diets every damn day. And although change is good consistancy is VERY important in bodybuilding.

[Lawdog1379]

I've learned a lot from bodybuilding.com and learning more everyday. I am still extremely ignorant when it comes to macros/micros, diet, aspects to bodybuilding, etc...My question is that my workout consists of four days throughout the week. I workout Mon/Tue and then off on Wed and then workout again Thur/Fri. This diet seems to only work when you workout every other day or am I looking at it wrong. If so can someone explain to me how you could incorporate this diet into working out four days a week.

[darkvain]

I've learned a lot from bodybuilding.com and learning more everyday. I am still extremely ignorant when it comes to macros/micros, diet, aspects to bodybuilding, etc...My question is that my workout consists of four days throughout the week. I workout Mon/Tue and then off on Wed and then workout again Thur/Fri. This diet seems to only work when you workout every other day or am I looking at it wrong. If so can someone explain to me how you could incorporate this diet into working out four days a week.

This diet works regardless of when you want to work out, you just have to arrange your eating windows to whenever you want to train.
Example: You want to do your workout at 6 PM; you could break your fast at about 4:30 to get your pre-workout meal, train, then stop eating after 9 PM or however long you want to fast. Just adjust your eating window to your workout times. Other option would be to train in a fasted state, but I?m not too sure about that.

[rforgione]

Martin's video with him doing the huge deadlift was done in the fasted state. I'm interested in this diet but I'm in the middle of a cut right now and I've only been on the current diet (a 40/20/40 split across 6 meals) for about 2 weeks now. Will switching only promote inconsistency and halt my fat loss? Should I wait until I've been on my current diet a little longer to switch? Or does it not matter?

[Doobie2270]

Martin's video with him doing the huge deadlift was done in the fasted state. I'm interested in this diet but I'm in the middle of a cut right now and I've only been on the current diet (a 40/20/40 split across 6 meals) for about 2 weeks now. Will switching only promote inconsistency and halt my fat loss? Should I wait until I've been on my current diet a little longer to switch? Or does it not matter?

The IF is supposed to be useful for fat loss so just use your current macros, but eat them in that 8 hour window. I guess. Never actually did IF, but I've been reading up...

[Lawdog1379]

This diet works regardless of when you want to work out, you just have to arrange your eating windows to whenever you want to train.
Example: You want to do your workout at 6 PM; you could break your fast at about 4:30 to get your pre-workout meal, train, then stop eating after 9 PM or however long you want to fast. Just adjust your eating window to your workout times. Other option would be to train in a fasted state, but I?m not too sure about that.

Yea I was talking to myself about the diet plan and realized when the fasting was and figured it out. <-slow learner. I'm going to try it. This diet seems to really fit the profile of all animals in Nature up to and including Humans. Animals eat a whole lot and then fast cause they have to kill their food and that can take time. I'm pretty sure since Humans have been doing the same thing for thousands of years our gentics have changed to fit a eating/fasting profile. I bet this diet will work with more people then people tend to realize. Anyway, I'm going to try it starting today and see what the outcome is. Thanks a bunch.

[The Director]

How does keto work on a diet like this?

so let me get this straight..its like this:

10AM wake up to-3:30
3:30pm Eat 1/4 of your calories as a preworkout meal.
4:30pm- Workout/Pwo Shake
5:30pm- 3/4 rest of your caloric intake in this meal.

Fast t'll tomorrow?

[Lawdog1379]

This diet works regardless of when you want to work out, you just have to arrange your eating windows to whenever you want to train.
Example: You want to do your workout at 6 PM; you could break your fast at about 4:30 to get your pre-workout meal, train, then stop eating after 9 PM or however long you want to fast. Just adjust your eating window to your workout times. Other option would be to train in a fasted state, but I?m not too sure about that.

Another stupid question but when you're fasting you can still drink water and no calorie sodas right? I've always been under the impression that fasting was not eating food but you can drink anything.

[Crunchbar]

1. You can probably afford to have carbs a bit higher due to the higher insulin sensitivity brought about by the fast and also training. But u do want to keep protein at the usual levels

2. U can eat as many meals as u like and are comfortable

3. No - see above

4. Breaking up the fast is not allowed - or it wont be a fast and you'll be missing the benefits. So stick with the 16/8 time frame



Ill let Martin address this but I cant see a problem with a 16 yr old doing this approach provided your macros/calories still work out



1. Yes u fast on every day. Id save the omega 3 to have with your first meal then the rest w/ another or later in the day

2. Morning workouts can be an issue as it is going to be harder to stop eating at 5pm so adherence may suffer. But you do have the theory right and if you wanna try it out and see if u can handle it, otherwise id go with something else. Maybe just bigger less frequent meals so its isnt so time consuming but not necessarily a fasting diet.

3. If your getting enough calories for mass building, you'll build mass.

so let me get this straight. all u do is lets say go to bed at 12 wake up at 8 fast tell 4 (total fast so far is 16 hrs) then get in your 2400 cals (pretending that is ur macros) before 12 but how u get those cals in doesnt matter?

[jtucker]

so let me get this straight. all u do is lets say go to bed at 12 wake up at 8 fast tell 4 (total fast so far is 16 hrs) then get in your 2400 cals (pretending that is ur macros) before 12 but how u get those cals in doesnt matter?

I guess it's kind of like this.

Day 1:

Hours 00-16(12am-4pm) (fasting, fat burning phase)

Hours 16-24(4pm-12am) (pre-wo meal breaks the fast). A heavy workout sends a growth stimulus. Overfeeding occurs. If macros are controlled, short term fat gain is avoided while providing adequate nutrition for growth to occur post-workout and during sleep).

Hours 24-40(12am-4pm) (fasting, PW meal still digesting)

Hours 40-48(4pm-12am) (eating window, high protein intake, deficit during this day sets the stage for lipolysis during hours 48-66, and so it goes on)

[Crunchbar]

I guess it's kind of like this.

Day 1:

Hours 00-16(12am-4pm) (fasting, fat burning phase)

Hours 16-24(4pm-12am) (pre-wo meal breaks the fast). A heavy workout sends a growth stimulus. Overfeeding occurs. If macros are controlled, short term fat gain is avoided while providing adequate nutrition for growth to occur post-workout and during sleep).

Hours 24-40(12am-4pm) (fasting, PW meal still digesting)

Hours 40-48(4pm-12am) (eating window, high protein intake, deficit during this day sets the stage for lipolysis during hours 48-66, and so it goes on)

during hours 16-24 u only have 1 meal listed.... shouldnt one consume all their calories for the day in this window of time?

[-->aDAM*<--]

I'm trying it! screw what other people might think I'm ready for the OMG -->aDAM*<-- has a eating disorder comments, because it won't matter when I start seing gains.

So basically on training days you break your fast ~2hrs before your workout and continue eating for the next 8hrs then continue your fast?

I workout at 3:30pm so I'll eat a preWO meal at ~1:30pm, train, then eat a few more big meals up until ~9pm then start over again.

And on rest days the fasting window is open to when I feel? or should I keep it consistant to my training days?

and what do you do for cardio? thanks and *REPS* for all these good questions