Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[The Director]

The standard advice used to be 25 mg every four hours, but according to this article:



(Figured better to just quote it so that nothing gets lost in the paraphrasing)

By n=1 experiment, I've found Bryan's recommendation to be right on the money. By splitting up the does I get more consistent appetite suppression and less jitters/grumpiness (and since I'm naturally grumpy anyway, that's a very good thing.)

Awesome, makes alot of sense. I gotta go get my a pill splitter, and non-powdered caffeine tablets.

W8isgr8- If that was the case, then no one would need to use this forum to get information, we learn off of other peoples mistakes, which is why were all here, to learn, teach, and above all, progress.

So if someone died off of anything, and one of us knew about it, why not warn the other person rather than see him experiment and gamble with death?

[W8isGR8]

yeah. It's not just here; a lot of people want prepackaged solutions, ready-to-go diets and workouts. The problem with that is that different things work for different people. I do a few things I probably would never recommend to anybody, but they work well for me, knowwhatImean?

For f*cks sake, someone started a thread yesterday asking how many strawberries it was okay to eat on a cut....

[matthor]

For f*cks sake, someone started a thread yesterday asking how many strawberries it was okay to eat on a cut....

wtf? thats just ridiculous

its 6 - dont they teach anything in schools these days?

[W8isGR8]

Awesome, makes alot of sense. I gotta go get my a pill splitter, and non-powdered caffeine tablets.

W8isgr8- If that was the case, then no one would need to use this forum to get information, we learn off of other peoples mistakes, which is why were all here, to learn, teach, and above all, progress.

So if someone died off of anything, and one of us knew about it, why not warn the other person rather than see him experiment and gamble with death?

No, there's a difference between asking opinions about a training program, or technique form on a box squat....and asking the retarded **** you see here day to day.

"Is 40g of dex too much, or should I just stick with 30g?"

"Will adding and extra set of curls every 3rd arm day overtrain me?"

"If I wake up at 5:15am, but don't eat until 5:20am...how much muscle will I burn through?"

"If you were paralyzed on the right side of your body, would you still be able to lift with the other side"

[verbatim9]

I got in to an interesting argument here lol-

Would the ancients kick our asses or not, and would they laugh at me if i ate 6 times a day?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...3#post65722883

Now all I need is W8 joining in the discussion with his hard core triceps kickback avatar in the powerlifting journal section.

W8, you gotta come man.

And why were you banned from the IA forum? They couldn't appreciate the intensity videos?

[W8isGR8]

I got in to an interesting argument here lol-

Would the ancients kick our asses or not, and would they laugh at me if i ate 6 times a day?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...3#post65722883

Now all I need is W8 joining in the discussion with his hard core triceps kickback avatar in the powerlifting journal section.

W8, you gotta come man.

And why were you banned from the IA forum? They couldn't appreciate the intensity videos?

I was banned because I wouldn't conform to the "Squats and deads are all you need for arms" bull**** that got spewed over there.


IMO, anyone who wants to do this diet should just keep it to themselves. It's like going back in time and telling people the earth is round....

[followthedao]

I'm on this fast right now and all seems okay, except when it's time to eat, soon after my first meal i get diarrhea. Here is something quoted from another forum on this issue:

Here is the mechanisms. It has do with the double whammy of catecholamine release (stress hormone) during fasting and the subsequent release of 5 HT with the first meal that stimulates diarrhoea.

Cant be good for Gut health or Liver.

Hardgainers would be advised to give this diet a miss.

SEE this

Postprandial plasma 5-hydroxytryptamine in diarrhoea predominant irritable bowel syndrome: a pilot study

C Bearcroft, D Perrett, and M Farthing
Digestive Diseases Research Centre, London, UK.
This article has been cited by other articles in PMC.

AbstractBackground?Increased concentrations of 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) can be detected in the systemic circulation after a meal and may be involved in the physiological control of gastrointestinal motility. Abnormalities of 5-HT release after a meal might explain some of the postprandial symptoms associated with the irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).

Aim?To investigate the effect of a standard meal on plasma 5-HT and urinary 5-hydroxyindole acetic acid (5-HIAA) concentrations in patients with diarrhoea predominant IBS and in healthy volunteers.

Methods?After an overnight fast, six volunteers and five patients with IBS were given a carbohydrate-rich meal. Blood and urine samples were taken before and for four hours after the meal. Platelet-poor plasma 5-HT and urinary 5-HIAA were analysed by reversed phase high performance liquid chromatography with fluorometric detection. 5-HIAA was expressed as a ratio with urinary creatinine concentration, which was measured by spectrophotometry.

Results?During the four hour postprandial period, 5-HT concentrations were significantly higher in patients with IBS than in healthy volunteers at 0.5 hours (p<0.05), 2 hours (p<0.05) and 2.5 hours (p<0.05). 5-HT was not detected in the plasma in the fasting state in patients or volunteers. Median peak 5-HT in patients with IBS (359 (198-796) nmol/l) was significantly greater than volunteers (83 (7-190)) (p<0.05). "Area under the curve" for 5-HT detection was greater for patients with IBS (317(138-771)) than for healthy volunteers (51 (4-129); p<0.05).The duration of the 5-HT peak was significantly longer in patients with IBS (3 (1-3) hours) than in the healthy volunteers (1 (1-1) hours; p<0.01). Postprandial urinary median 5-HIAA values in controls (5.6 (5.5-5.8) ?mol/mmol creatinine) and patients with IBS (3.0(2.5-6.8) ?mol/mmol creatinine) were not significantly different from preprandial values (controls: 5.9 (5.5-6.6) ?mol/mmol creatinine; patients with IBS: (6.2 (2.4-9.3) ?mol/mmol creatinine).

Conclusion?These findings indicate that there may be a difference in the way that 5-HT is released in patients with diarrhoea predominant IBS, and could suggest a possible role for 5-HT in the postprandial symptoms of these patients.


Keywords: 5-hydroxytryptamine; postprandial; diarrhoea predominant irritable bowel syndrome

so, does this go away or what?

[Black_Spit]

wtf? thats just ridiculous

its 6 - dont they teach anything in schools these days?

Well, that TOTALLY cancels out the study done in 2002 that clearly found that you may eat 7 1/4th strawberries on a cut, regardless of age, weight, height, and activity level.

[fates_child03]

lol no I ate 1/4 too many strawberries time to go purge myself! I just cant take it. It wasn't my cheat meal day.

[SDC77]

I'm on this fast right now and all seems okay, except when it's time to eat, soon after my first meal i get diarrhea. Here is something quoted from another forum on this issue:



so, does this go away or what?

Are you drinking a ton of water during your fast? I've never had this problem at all. I recall farting a ton after my first meal, but that's hardly a negative.

Farting ftw.

[The Director]

No, there's a difference between asking opinions about a training program, or technique form on a box squat....and asking the retarded **** you see here day to day.

"Is 40g of dex too much, or should I just stick with 30g?"

"Will adding and extra set of curls every 3rd arm day overtrain me?"

"If I wake up at 5:15am, but don't eat until 5:20am...how much muscle will I burn through?"

"If you were paralyzed on the right side of your body, would you still be able to lift with the other side"

lol..good laughs.

But come on..ephedrine questions can never get dismissed =)

[vipergq]

Wow, I am actually putting togatehr a program not to different than this I think. I've been doing it for the past 6 weeks now and getting good results. I was going to post it in here next week.

[W8isGR8]

lol..good laughs.

But come on..ephedrine questions can never get dismissed =)

That's like asking "How many beers should I drink in an hour without getting too drunk?"


How the f*ck are we supposed to know. Pop a pill, if it's not strong enough take another one.

Rocket surgery....

[Sixpack]

A couple things been reading, what would a diabetic do with this type of diet controlling BS levles?

And also would one get optimal results just eating 3-4 larger meals per day instead of fasting for 16 hours.
Interesting for sure. W8 you crack me up man ,you tell it how it is

[vipergq]

nevermind, Apon reading how this diet works, my diet is nothing like it...

[RU4A69]

I'm on this fast right now and all seems okay, except when it's time to eat, soon after my first meal i get diarrhea. Here is something quoted from another forum on this issue:



so, does this go away or what?

Try and eat a lot of fat w/ your first meal. This not only counters the blood sugar rollercoaster that this type of eating can cause, it might help digestion.

[bettyrider]

Are you drinking a ton of water during your fast? I've never had this problem at all. I recall farting a ton after my first meal, but that's hardly a negative.

Farting ftw.

Intermittent fasting = intermittent farting??

Not quite so sure how that is going to go over at the workplace, especially with the bad air circulation in our office. (note to self: buy a bottle of febreeze)

[Blk98Bird]

Man we are the nutritional renegades.

Haha. Word, my IF'n brotha.

You guys think taking a thermogenic during the fast would mess up the benefits of the fast? Would putting anything in me besides water break it?

It enhances the effects. As stated, thermogenics are more potent during the fast and will also stave off some of the hunger (if you experience it).

The reason I think IF is so intriguing and the reason I am trying it is because it eliminates all the cutting/ bulking etc from your way of life you can accomplish losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. Doing this at a slower rate instead of cutting/ bulking all the time is much easier on your body imo.

I honestly feel that for someone who doesn't have any intention to compete, there's no point in going through hell to cut only to look good for a few maintenance weeks and start to get sloppy looking again for months while trying to bulk.

Slow and steady wins the race for the average joe who just wants to be healthy and look good. I think if Alan agrees with nothing else in this thread, he'll agree with this.

W8isGr8, if that answer was towards me, its not difficult. Its a question asked to people who have done IF with an EC stack. Why not learn off of someone who has experienced.

I think his frustration lies partially in the fact that the current "guidelines" for ephedrine use generally assume an empty stomach to begin with, so why would things change so drastically as to totally revamp dosing protocols. If you're worried, start low and work high that's my motto.

Why not experiment and think for yourself instead of being spoon-fed?

I have found that there generally tend to be two categories of people here:

Category A knows how to use the search, does a little bit of research and then decides to create a new thread if they don't understand something specific and require clarification. I like category A people.

Category B seems to take a stream of conscieousness approach to their posting and rapid-fire clicks "new post" whenever an idea pops into their head regardless of whether or not they've tried to investigate and draw their own conclusions. This seems to be the dominant majority currently.

[The Director]

Haha. Word, my IF'n brotha.



It enhances the effects. As stated, thermogenics are more potent during the fast and will also stave off some of the hunger (if you experience it).



I honestly feel that for someone who doesn't have any intention to compete, there's no point in going through hell to cut only to look good for a few maintenance weeks and start to get sloppy looking again for months while trying to bulk.

Slow and steady wins the race for the average joe who just wants to be healthy and look good. I think if Alan agrees with nothing else in this thread, he'll agree with this.



I think his frustration lies partially in the fact that the current "guidelines" for ephedrine use generally assume an empty stomach to begin with, so why would things change so drastically as to totally revamp dosing protocols. If you're worried, start low and work high that's my motto.



I have found that there generally tend to be two categories of people here:

Category A knows how to use the search, does a little bit of research and then decides to create a new thread if they don't understand something specific and require clarification. I like category A people.

Category B seems to take a stream of conscieousness approach to their posting and rapid-fire clicks "new post" whenever an idea pops into their head regardless of whether or not they've tried to investigate and draw their own conclusions. This seems to be the dominant majority currently.

Try using the search tab, and search for ephedrine during a fast, I know what comes up, believe me, the reason I have such low amount of posts even though being a member for sometime is because I use that search tab every single hour. Its actually the only reason I come here in the first place, once I read what I wanna read, I head over to the forums to see whats new.

I agree with what you said, about the average joe vs the contest prep, the average joe just needs to eat less and lose weight slowly, and surely overtime, eat smart afterwards.

[fates_child03]

Heres how I used Ephedrine before Film. I'm not saying its the scientific proved method or anything but its my personal experience with it.

The first 2 week I took 2 25mg pills daily
But it seemed I was developing alot of tolerance to it so after 2 weeks I bumped it up to 3 25mg pills daily.
Then after 4 weeks I bumped it up to 4 25mg pills daily lol.
When I got to the 6th week I cycled back off it for a couple weeks to bring my tolerance back down because I was taking 5 pills to get the same effect I use to get with 2.
If you have any specific questions shoot me a pm bro and I'll try to help out.

[followthedao]

Are you drinking a ton of water during your fast? I've never had this problem at all. I recall farting a ton after my first meal, but that's hardly a negative.

Farting ftw.

I drink about 2-4 liters a day.

Martin what do you have to say about the diarreha after the first meal of the fast??

[The Director]

Heres how I used Ephedrine before Film. I'm not saying its the scientific proved method or anything but its my personal experience with it.

The first 2 week I took 2 25mg pills daily
But it seemed I was developing alot of tolerance to it so after 2 weeks I bumped it up to 3 25mg pills daily.
Then after 4 weeks I bumped it up to 4 25mg pills daily lol.
When I got to the 6th week I cycled back off it for a couple weeks to bring my tolerance back down because I was taking 5 pills to get the same effect I use to get with 2.
If you have any specific questions shoot me a pm bro and I'll try to help out.

Thanks man, I already know how to cycle/take this stuff..I just wanted to educate myself about fasted state Ephedrine usage. Thanks though

[exile-swede]

Wow, you surely look amazing exile-swede!

Do you feel that the IF approach is more effective than the normal one? Not in terms of hunger or psychologically, but generally... did you feel it was better for getting lean or even adding mass to your physique?

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience with us!

Thanks!

As mentioned is my overall experience with this diet nothing short of positive so yes, I definitely think the IF approach is more effective than the "normal one" (i.e. a traditional higher meal frequency pattern).

In regards to getting lean IF has been vastly superior to any other approach I've tried simply because it's just so much easier and less painful to follow. The chief problems for me with the traditional "more meals the better, eat like a mouse" approach was more or less constant hunger and missing the feeling of fullness after large meals. With IF none of these things is an issue.

In regards to adding mass I can't say that much yet, mostly because my training the last couple of months has been somewhat limited due to shoulder problems, but I can definitely say that it hasn't been a negative experience. I've been cutting since maybe a month back and I haven't noticed any loss in strength in the muscles unaffected by my shoulder problems during this time, rather a slight increase.

I'm on this fast right now and all seems okay, except when it's time to eat, soon after my first meal i get diarrhea. Here is something quoted from another forum on this issue:



so, does this go away or what?

I'm no doctor, but my suggestion is to read up on Irritable Bowel Syndrome (that's what the study you posted is about). It may very well be your choice of food sources that causes the problems.

[Brock~E~Lee]

Edit

[buddhastalin]

4 meals a day you COULD be very well following the IF diet already and not know it. If you're eating every 2 hours.

good point. i actually do this on the weekends out of laziness where i get all my calories in a short window then go back to the 6 meals every 3-4 hours during the work week. it's weird that there's actually some explanation to IF. i'll definitely have to try going to my weekend habit of eating during the week as well. it's sure as hell more convenient. good thread.

[-->aDAM*<--]

I'm in, my only worry is that i'll be so hungry by the end of the fast i'll eat waay over maintenance as i have a wicked appetite and i don't plan on counting calories, sounds like its been working for W8 anyway.

[blackfrankwhite]

I'm in, my only worry is that i'll be so hungry by the end of the fast i'll eat waay over maintenance as i have a wicked appetite and i don't plan on counting calories, sounds like its been working for W8 anyway.

A fair concern,
Youd be suprised how much 1500 calories is (assuming you eat 6 - 700 PreWO)
It is all most hard to over eat (for me)

I tired to fast this morning POST workout
Couldnt do it
(plus I took 2 hot rox before lifting)
Damn it

Must lift in the evening...

[wazzup105]

Do people not understand that the body has the ability to store nutrients?

When you fast you use stored energy(fat/glycogen), when you feast, you replenish that stored energy(glycogen) and build muscle.

I get the carbs and fat storage, but am not so sure on the protein storage. Where is it stored, and how much is stored ?

[grapemaster]

first day of IF here... seems so much easier... my plan is a 1-9 window everyday... leaves me room for 3 hours eating after my workout, and allows me to cook ONE meal then have leftovers the next day... sanity! and fresher food! I never was a breakfast person anyway.

used to cook a bunch up in bulk and portion out tons of meals in tupperware.

[gfundaro]

I get the carbs and fat storage, but am not so sure on the protein storage. Where is it stored, and how much is stored ?

Too much protein is stored where everything else is stored if you eat too much...in your love handles. Haha just kidding. It's broken down into amino acids! The building blocks life, yay! Certain stuff has to happen to them, and different amino acids do different important things. Some go to skeletal musce repair and protein synthesis. Others leave behind their carbon skeleton to be used in the production of Acetyl CoA or ketogenic compounds or glucose through gluconeogenesis. In the end, it all comes down to ATP production. And if you don't need any more ATP at the moment, the glucose is converted to glycerine and joined with FFA's and makes triglycerides. How much is stored depends on how much you eat.