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  1. #2971
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    Would you recommend this diet for my situation? Im trying to maintain weight but loose some body fat. Im currently at 145lb 13% BF. I cant gain weight because im a boxer. So would you guys recommend it?

  2. #2972
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    Nice thread, I have a quick question though-

    Is it better to eat a high carbohydrate diet in the 8hr feeding window in order to replenish leptin rather than a keto style very low carb diet (provided both are eaten at/above maintenence calories)?

  3. #2973
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    Hi Guys,

    i am wondering (starting the IF tomorrow), how about refeeddays once a week?

    are they nessecary? , if yes, still with a 8 hour eating window?
    Yeah Buddy! Light Weight Baby!

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    Originally Posted by Mackoek View Post
    Hi Guys,

    i am wondering (starting the IF tomorrow), how about refeeddays once a week?

    are they nessecary? , if yes, still with a 8 hour eating window?
    Yes, refeed days will do you good. I do refeeds on Saturdays, and I do IF everyday Mon-Fri. Sunday is usually an all day fast for me. The thing about fasting, is that you have to keep the body guessing, or it'll adapt, so vary your fasts every now and then. Good luck.
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  5. #2975
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    oohke thx man!

    but on sunday, you dont eat ANYTHING? thus ZERO kcal?

    is that for weightloss, or just for the health benifits...?
    Yeah Buddy! Light Weight Baby!

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    Originally Posted by Mackoek View Post
    oohke thx man!

    but on sunday, you dont eat ANYTHING? thus ZERO kcal?

    is that for weightloss, or just for the health benifits...?
    I just do it for health benefits. I don't know about anyone else, but after a day long fast, least your first one, you feel a lot better and it feels almost as if your metabolism kicks in more.
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  7. #2977
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    Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan View Post
    Those arguing that IF is not optimal for bodybuilding should put forth their arguments for that statement. The practical perspective related to calorie intake has been discussed; if you can't get your calories and macronutrient intake in the designated eating window then no, it's not optimal. Let's leave that. Bro-lore, such as bodybuilders mostly eat 6 meals a day does not count for substantive evidence either.

    The truth is that we don't know what eating approach is optimal besides the basics (proper pre and pwo nutrition, adequate calorie and protein intake etc). It may very well be that targeting the post-workout window and getting 60-100% of calorie intake post-workout is optimal- in fact, on purely theoretical grounds I could make the argument that the Leangains approach is far superior to anything else. But I'm not going to do that. Just realize that there is no evidence to support the conventional approach when it comes to muscle hypertrophy and whether it is optimal or not.
    Nice to see you back.


  8. #2978
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    Very interesting stuff. I'm gonna experiment with this starting tomorrow. I'm following the Mark Rippetoe Starting Strenght program, so I'll be lifting weights 3 times a week. How about cardio; in or out the eating window?

  9. #2979
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    Originally Posted by Reinier View Post
    Very interesting stuff. I'm gonna experiment with this starting tomorrow. I'm following the Mark Rippetoe Starting Strenght program, so I'll be lifting weights 3 times a week. How about cardio; in or out the eating window?
    I wouldn't workout if you continue to fast, that's just me though. I workout fasted, but I "break fast" afterward and feed myself with plenty to recover.
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  10. #2980
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    Originally Posted by TourMaline View Post
    Nice thread, I have a quick question though-

    Is it better to eat a high carbohydrate diet in the 8hr feeding window in order to replenish leptin rather than a keto style very low carb diet (provided both are eaten at/above maintenence calories)?
    Any answers guys?

  11. #2981
    Registered User Martin Berkhan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TourMaline View Post
    Any answers guys?
    Training days are generally high(er) in carbs while rest days are low(er) carb.

    Note 'generally', since this depends on several factors such as goals, body fat % and insulin sensitivity.
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    Hard work and Willpower! TourMaline's Avatar
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    Thanks alot for your prompt reply Martin!

    Do you beleive that leptin is as important as poeple are making it sound? And if it is of great importance, do you have any tips on how to upregulate its production whilst maintaining an IF pattern of feeding?

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    I've lost 8 pounds in almost a month on Martin's program. (For Fat-loss), and this is fantastic.
    My 16-hour/day fasting blog:

    http://16hourdayfast.blogspot.com/

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    Sumo Wrestlers?

    Interesting point a few bring up (Like Dr. Colker in his book Extreme Muscle Enhancement) is that Sumo wrestlers gain so much weight because they fast.

    so how do they gain so much fat fasting, and others claim it can help lose fat? Seems confusing.

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    Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    Interesting point a few bring up (Like Dr. Colker in his book Extreme Muscle Enhancement) is that Sumo wrestlers gain so much weight because they fast.

    so how do they gain so much fat fasting, and others claim it can help lose fat? Seems confusing.
    GOOD QUESTION!

    Here's you answer: http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/200...umo-wrestlers/
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  16. #2986
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    Sumo wrestlers consume enormous quantities of beer. A traditional gainer soup they eat ("Chakkanabe," or something of the sort) is made with beer, white rice, and fish. 60-90% carbs, prolly average 10,000 cals daily: they eat til they pass out.

    Their fatness has nothing to do skipping breakfast or training fasted. They train fasted cuz it makes them stronger and they can train longer.

    gain so much weight because they fast.
    Most Muslims will tell you they lose a significant amount of weight during Ramadan; which is sorta like 30 days of Warrior Dieting. (and Muslims refrain from Alcohol).
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    me ne frego Gabriel Anton's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69 View Post
    Sumo wrestlers consume enormous quantities of beer. A traditional gainer soup they eat ("Chakkanabe," or something of the sort) is made with beer, white rice, and fish. 60-90% carbs, prolly average 10,000 cals daily: they eat til they pass out.

    Their fatness has nothing to do skipping breakfast or training fasted. They train fasted cuz it makes them stronger and they can train longer.



    Most Muslims will tell you they lose a significant amount of weight during Ramadan; which is sorta like 30 days of Warrior Dieting. (and Muslims refrain from Alcohol).

    True.

    Most Muslim BBers I know (ok,,,the both of them) tell me they also push less weight during their fasts the Holy Month as well.

    Probably not really helpful to isolate any one factor out of a lifestyle like Sumo or anythhing else for that matter when there are so many other variables at play.

  18. #2988
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    Originally Posted by coolbreeze View Post
    Interesting point a few bring up (Like Dr. Colker in his book Extreme Muscle Enhancement) is that Sumo wrestlers gain so much weight because they fast.

    so how do they gain so much fat fasting, and others claim it can help lose fat? Seems confusing.
    It still comes down to total calories.

  19. #2989
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    can this be used only on rest day? i train in the morning and can't make it work on those days

  20. #2990
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    Originally Posted by Lactic View Post
    can this be used only on rest day? i train in the morning and can't make it work on those days
    this isn't for you, son

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    Would you guys recommend this diet to someone who is 155lbs, 13% BF and is trying to maintain weight. I box so i cant gain weight but can afford to loose it, and in matter of fact would like to drop a few pounds. So when doing this diet for cutting what shoud macros look like? And how long should the window be. Also are cheat meals acceptable at all?

  22. #2992
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    People, this isn't a diet, stop thinking it'll help you lose fat/weight. It's just varying up the time you eat, you're supposed to eat the right amount of calories in the alloted time. So if you eat less calories during your window, then you'll lose weight, if not, you won't. It's that simple, fasting is good for overall health, it's not a fad to try and lose weight/fat. Your body will become more efficient, so you might digest food much better and possibly lose fat/gain muscle because your body is working better, but it's not becuase you're not eating often. The projectfit.org site is awesome, I read it everyday.
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  23. #2993
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    Originally Posted by deadfingers View Post
    People, this isn't a diet, stop thinking it'll help you lose fat/weight. It's just varying up the time you eat, you're supposed to eat the right amount of calories in the alloted time. So if you eat less calories during your window, then you'll lose weight, if not, you won't. It's that simple, fasting is good for overall health, it's not a fad to try and lose weight/fat. Your body will become more efficient, so you might digest food much better and possibly lose fat/gain muscle because your body is working better, but it's not becuase you're not eating often. The projectfit.org site is awesome, I read it everyday.
    It's a diet or a diet approach depending on your definition.

    IF, as a concept, covers multiple methods of fasting/feeding:

    * ADF (alternate day fasting)
    * Warrior Diet (20/4 hrs fasting)
    * Fast-5 (19/5 hrs fast/feed)
    * Eat Stop Eat (24 hrs fasting, 1-2x/week)
    * Leangains (16/8 hrs fast/feed)

    Within each of these systems, there are more or less specific guidelines on what to eat and so forth, ranging from the very vague (ADF) to the strict (Leangains, which uses pre/post workout nutrition, specific macro% breakdowns and meal timing).

    To my knowledge Leangains is the only 'diet' per se, while the others are diet approaches that relies more on behavioural changes that the authors hope will encourage weight loss ('eat healthy' 'eat fruit, veggies, lean meat' etc).

    Leangains is also the only method that more or less assumes the person is an athlete/is weight training, or is interested in maximal muscle retention during weight loss. Weight training and proper pre/workout nutrition is not even discussed in the other methods. They seem to cater more to the typical dieter, not the fitness enthusiast, athlete or weight trainer.
    Last edited by Martin Berkhan; 06-19-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan View Post
    It's a diet or a diet approach depending on your definition.

    IF, as a concept, covers multiple methods of fasting/feeding:

    * ADF (alternate day fasting)
    * Warrior Diet (24 hrs fasting)
    * Fast-5 (19/5 hrs fast/feed)
    * Eat Stop Eat (24 hr fasting 2x/week)
    * Leangains (16/8 hrs fast/feed)

    Within each of these systems, there are more or less specific guidelines on what to eat and so forth, ranging from the very vague (Warrior Diet) to the strict (Leangains, which uses specific macro% breakdowns and meal timing).

    To my knowledge Leangains is the only 'diet' per se, while the others are diet approaches that relies more on behavioural changes that the authors hope will encourage weight loss ('eat healthy' 'eat fruit, veggies, lean meat' etc).

    Well I'm talking in general, your approach includes fasting along with a set "diet" in place. Intermittent fasting, is just eating within a certain window, that's it. I do Keto, which is a different way of eating, you can eat any way you see fit with IF. I'm not arguing against you or anything, it's just that I myself have gotten PMs on this stuff asking "what's the diet like on IF", it's just timing, that's all it is.
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    Originally Posted by deadfingers View Post
    Well I'm talking in general, your approach includes fasting along with a set "diet" in place. Intermittent fasting, is just eating within a certain window, that's it. I do Keto, which is a different way of eating, you can eat any way you see fit with IF. I'm not arguing against you or anything, it's just that I myself have gotten PMs on this stuff asking "what's the diet like on IF", it's just timing, that's all it is.
    Sure, just thought readers might benefit from the post in order to avoid the confusion.
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    Originally Posted by RU4A69 View Post
    Sumo wrestlers consume enormous quantities of beer. A traditional gainer soup they eat ("Chakkanabe," or something of the sort) is made with beer, white rice, and fish. 60-90% carbs, prolly average 10,000 cals daily: they eat til they pass out.

    Their fatness has nothing to do skipping breakfast or training fasted. They train fasted cuz it makes them stronger and they can train longer.



    Most Muslims will tell you they lose a significant amount of weight during Ramadan; which is sorta like 30 days of Warrior Dieting. (and Muslims refrain from Alcohol).
    Yikes! 10,000Cals! And I thought I was a bit greedy.

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    so martin, why is IF better than a bodybuilding, nofasting diet?

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    Thought this was cool:

    Originally Posted by PubMed
    Dietary restriction has been shown to have several health benefits including increased insulin sensitivity, stress resistance, reduced morbidity, and increased life span. The mechanism remains unknown, but the need for a long-term reduction in caloric intake to achieve these benefits has been assumed. We report that when C57BL/6 mice are maintained on an intermittent fasting (alternate-day fasting) dietary-restriction regimen their overall food intake is not decreased and their body weight is maintained. Nevertheless, intermittent fasting resulted in beneficial effects that met or exceeded those of caloric restriction including reduced serum glucose and insulin levels and increased resistance of neurons in the brain to excitotoxic stress. Intermittent fasting therefore has beneficial effects on glucose regulation and neuronal resistance to injury in these mice that are independent of caloric intake.
    Full:http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=156352

    I know it's mice, but I don't see why it wouldn't apply to humans

    By the end of this study, male C57BL/6 mice subjected to IF were consuming essentially the same amount of food in a 48-h period as did those fed AL. On the days they had access to food, the IF mice ate roughly twice as much as did mice fed AL (Fig. 1a). Mice on the LDF regimen consumed 40% less food as provided: this was reflected in their body weights, which were 49% lower than those of the AL-fed group. In contrast, at the end of the study the body weights of mice maintained on the IF diet or PF on a daily basis were only slightly below those of the AL-fed group (Fig. 1b). A prominent physiological change that occurs in mammals maintained on reduced-calorie diets is increased insulin sensitivity, which often is reflected in decreased fasting plasma levels of glucose and insulin (17). Fasting serum concentrations of glucose and insulin in mice fed AL in the current study averaged 150 mg/dl and 3,400 pg/ml, respectively (Fig. 2 a and b). The concentrations of glucose and insulin were decreased significantly, to similar amounts, in mice maintained on either LDF or IF regimens with glucose and insulin concentrations dropping to 100 mg/dl and 700–1,100 pg/ml, respectively (Fig. 2).That similar changes are seen in IF and LDF groups in the current study suggests that despite an overall calorie intake similar to mice fed AL, IF has similar effects on circulating glucose and insulin levels.
    ...........I think that throws the "frequent feeding better controls insulin and blood sugar" bull**** out the window........
    Last edited by RU4A69; 06-19-2008 at 07:18 PM.
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    it gets better:

    A consistent hormonal response to a decrease in food intake in rodents, nonhuman primates, and humans (30, 31) is a reduction in insulin levels and an increase in insulin sensitivity. We found that mice subjected to IF exhibited decreases in serum levels of glucose and insulin to levels at or below those in mice fed daily but with a 40% reduction in caloric intake.The ability of IF to alter fasting levels of insulin and glucose was independent of overall caloric intake.
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