Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[Martin Berkhan]

Originally Posted by 908

no...for christ sakes.



possibly. I don't know how many cals they take in during that one meal but it's probably a load. The philosophy is the same regardless of calories you're taking in though. When you put your body in a starved state, due to "evolutional" adaptations, it will attempt to store what you eat when you finally eat as fat. This is in anticipation of another starved state and it will need something to feed off of. I guess the argument could be used that well if I'm in caloric deficit then this can't happen... Initially most likely you will lose weight simply for the fact that you're in a deficit but eventually that effect will taper off.

Not sure why anyone that actually lifts would want to do one meal a day anyway... if you eat post-workout you won't have enough glycogen stored to sustain a worthwhile workout. If you eat pre-workout you aren't taking anything in post-workout to enhance muscle repair.

This being said, not knocking IF completely just had to throw those things out there. I tried it for 2 weeks before I left for vacation and I hit PRs almost every single workout. Though I believe this stems more from doing something different diet-wise that strayed from my norm moreso than the actual "science" behind the diet producing results I still plan on getting back to it if I hit a plateau again.

Bro-science at it's best.

[toiletmoose]

Agreed. People need to get informed.

[Theenforcer1]

LOL. Yeah so all those people over in africa that are lucky to get one meal a day are just so fat...ignore the constant fed overweight american where 2/3 of all americans are overweight/obese. Funny how culture where food is overly abundant (meaning more constant feedings) is overweight, where food is not overly abundant (meaning less constant feedings) people are underweight. Fact is, it is calories in vs. out. Your body doesnt create energy, it only comes from what goes in the mouth. If you believe what your spewing there...then you dont believe in the laws of physics...and if thats the case...im just...well I quit lol

[friedrice683]

I have a question:

I tried IF during the summer as I was working full time and it was a hassle to try eat during the day and I would get starving, yet be unable to eat. I read about hunger reducing effects of IF and so tried it and loved it.

However, I seemed to gain weight some fat when I was eating maintenance. I am endurance athlete and most of my workouts consist of 8-12 mile runs. When I switched to IF I felt awesome during the fast, and then would forcefeed myself the calories I needed at night to make up for lost energy, but within a week I felt bloated all the time (like at night, early morning, when food was still digesting).

What is the best approach to maintenance on this diet? It just seems like when I need to eat 280-320g carbs in 2-3 meals within 8hr period, the carbs just bloat me/go straight to fat stores.

Example of my diet during IF was as follow:
700 calorie pre workout meal
~1300 - 1400 calorie PWO
700 calorie before bed

45%c, 30%p, 25%f

Was it just in my head? I did IF for ~3 weeks.

[MarkVI]

Originally Posted by friedrice683

I have a question:

I tried IF during the summer as I was working full time and it was a hassle to try eat during the day and I would get starving, yet be unable to eat. I read about hunger reducing effects of IF and so tried it and loved it.

However, I seemed to gain weight some fat when I was eating maintenance. I am endurance athlete and most of my workouts consist of 8-12 mile runs. When I switched to IF I felt awesome during the fast, and then would forcefeed myself the calories I needed at night to make up for lost energy, but within a week I felt bloated all the time (like at night, early morning, when food was still digesting).

What is the best approach to maintenance on this diet? It just seems like when I need to eat 280-320g carbs in 2-3 meals within 8hr period, the carbs just bloat me/go straight to fat stores.

Example of my diet during IF was as follow:
700 calorie pre workout meal
~1300 - 1400 calorie PWO
700 calorie before bed

45%c, 30%p, 25%f

Was it just in my head? I did IF for ~3 weeks.

you had/have an ED don't IF.

[giresun27]

I am doing this now for 3 days.

In the morning 7.am I workout on empty stomach
after that I drink whey isolate.

and my second meal is around 6p.m

but I notice that I can't eat much at all.

is this ok? I don't think I get enough calories.
but I am not feeling weak or anything. just fine.
and I haven't lost fat yet either.

[Scott~]

You don't have to view IF has some kind of dieting tool. While it may used that way for some, for me it is more about eating instinctively. I'm not typically hungry in the morning unless I didn't eat much the evening before. I prefer eating all afternoon after work as opposed to eating all day.

[bango skank]

I'm less than a week out from my 1st powerlifting meet that I have trained for while heavily incorporating IF.

Results to follow!

[Scott~]

Originally Posted by bango skank

I'm less than a week out from my 1st powerlifting meet that I have trained for while heavily incorporating IF.

Results to follow!

You also workout fasted, correct?

[bango skank]

Originally Posted by Scott~

You also workout fasted, correct?

Yeah, about 80% of the time I do. All of my best (PR) workouts have been fasted.

I will not be competing fasted however... cuz I'm scared to, haha.

[giresun27]

hey is it okay to fast 1 whole day and only drink a whey shake.

and the second day have a normal dinner?

[BlueFenix13S]

Originally Posted by friedrice683

I have a question:

I tried IF during the summer as I was working full time and it was a hassle to try eat during the day and I would get starving, yet be unable to eat. I read about hunger reducing effects of IF and so tried it and loved it.

However, I seemed to gain weight some fat when I was eating maintenance. I am endurance athlete and most of my workouts consist of 8-12 mile runs. When I switched to IF I felt awesome during the fast, and then would forcefeed myself the calories I needed at night to make up for lost energy, but within a week I felt bloated all the time (like at night, early morning, when food was still digesting).

What is the best approach to maintenance on this diet? It just seems like when I need to eat 280-320g carbs in 2-3 meals within 8hr period, the carbs just bloat me/go straight to fat stores.

Example of my diet during IF was as follow:
700 calorie pre workout meal
~1300 - 1400 calorie PWO
700 calorie before bed

45%c, 30%p, 25%f

Was it just in my head? I did IF for ~3 weeks.

Originally Posted by MarkVI

you had/have an ED don't IF.

I'm going to have to agree with Alex, but.....

You will have to experiment with different foods. No, I can't imagine you'd be able to eat 300g of carbs from oatmeal in 3 meals, but from rice or french bread or pasta, MUCH easier to stomach since they are more calorie/carb dense. If you are not eating more than you burn each day, you will not gain weight, period.

[Ted Nugent]

going to try eating a mix of fast/slow carbs pre-workout tomm. i have always broke my fast pre-workout with 1 cup oats and whey, but ive found after that meal i lose a ton of energy and just feel like im dragging chains :/ going to experiment and see if a {whey shake + bannana + some bread} will treat me better. im thinking the "lighter" nature of the meal wont bog me down but also give me enough of an energy boost. also going to experiment with a {snickers + whey shake/bannana + whey shake}.

[maneck35]

I seriously can't believe that what I've been doing due to trial and error and due to my routine is actually a legit diet!

Here's the story...I'm a college student and very interested in bodybuilding..bulked for 2 yrs or so unknowingly...i know really bad!!...went up to 96 kgs and then realised i was more FAT than BUILT!...decided that i needed to cut back on my food and hence started my journey...i've never had breakfast and am really not a big fan of it...so I used to skip breakfast...i found that I can go for long hours after waking up without food...the moment I have breakfast I feel hungry again in 1-2 hours..So, I skipped breakfast, used to work out on an empty stomach and then eat PWO..obviously in daily deficit...sometimes really low! and then this carried on everyday for months!! I'm 71 kgs now...i don't know my bf% but my avatar can give u a rough estimate...I'm putting up a few progress pics..PM me for any questions..

During Bulking (got wayy fatter than this) : http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2668/03032007.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6097/03032007002.jpg weight unknown at that point :S :P


After 3 months of what I found out was IF : http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8010/me2q.jpg 84kgs

After 8-9 months : http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4483/32802421.jpg 78kgs

After 11 months : http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5098/image286.jpg 75kgs

After 12 months : http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/949...0800328847.jpg 74kgs

hope this helps...all i wana know is that on a legit IF diet how many calories should one be consuming in the eating period...and also...how much does the quality of food matter...like I follow a clean eating plan right now but i go have a cheat meal once a week or so..kindly help out..

P.S. Current pic not available - am more ripped...abs clearly visible and weight is 71 kgs..

[stackcalB]

Just want to know if anybody has done a successful bulk while on an intermittent fasting diet.

I've been using IF for great results for a cut, and now want to bulk.

Wanting to decide whether to try an IF diet for a bulk, or is it just too difficult to get the calories in withing the 8 hour eating window.

What benefits could an IF diet provide over a traditional more flexible bulking diet?


Thanks for advice.

[raviraj]

does anybody has a idea how does the fasting effects leptin levels ? do they effect in a good or bad way ?

[raviraj]

http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1981.../psyfast.shtml guys very intresting articles on fasting

[raviraj]

STUDIES ON ISLAMIC FASTING

Dr. Soliman from University Hospital, Amman, Jordan has reported that during the month of Ramadan 1404 AH (June-July, 1984 AD) healthy Muslim volunteers@2 males and 26 females ranging in age from 15-64 and 16-28 years respectively-were studied. They were weighed and their blood levels of cortisol, testosterone, Na, K, urea, glucose, total cholesterol, high density lipoprotein (HDL), low density lipoprotein (LDL), triglycerides (TG) and serum osmolality were measured at the beginning and at the end of Ramadan. There was significant loss of weight in males from a mean of 73.8 +/-6.2 kg to 72.0 +/-7.1 kg (P less than 0.01) and in females from 55.2 +/-4.8 to 54.6 +/-4.2 kg (P less than 0.05). Blood glucose levels rose in males from 77.7 +/-23.6 mg/dl to 90.2 +/31.2 mg/dl (P less than 0.05) and in females from 76.0 +/-7.6 mg/dl to 84.5 +/-11.1 mg/di (P less than 0.002). All other parameters did not show significant changes.

Dr. F. Azizi and his associates from the University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran has reported the following. Serum levels of glucose, bilirubin, calcium, phosphorus, protein, albumin, FSH, LH, testosterone, prolactin, TSH, T4, T3, and T3 uptake, as well as prolactin and TSH responses to TRH were evaluated in a group of nine healthy men before and on the 10th, 20th, and 29th days of Ramadan. Mean body weight decreased from 65.4 +/- 9.1 to 61.6 +/- 9.0 kg at 29th day. Serum glucose decreased from 82 +/- 4 mg/dl on the 10th day, and increased thereafter (76 +/- 3 and 84 +/- 5 on the 20th and 29th days of fasting respectively). Serum bilirubin increased from 0.56 +/- 0.17 to 1 43 +/-.52 mg/dl on the 10th day, and decreased thereafter (I. I. +/- 0.4 on the 20th and 29th days). All changes returned to basal values four weeks after fasting. There were no significant changes in serum levels of Ca, P. protein, albumin, and any of the measured hormones. Prolactin and TSH responses to TPH were also unaltered. He concluded that 1) intermittent abstinence from food and drink for 17 hours a day for 29 days does not alter male reproductive hormones, hypothalamic-pituitary- thyroid axis or peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones and 2) physicians caring for Muslims should be aware of changes of glucose and bilirubin during Ramadan.

Therefore it is concluded from the above two studies that the pre- scribed fast does not cause any adverse medical effect and on the contrary, may have some beneficial effect on weight and lipid metabolism

[machx]

Originally Posted by stackcalB

Just want to know if anybody has done a successful bulk while on an intermittent fasting diet.

I've been using IF for great results for a cut, and now want to bulk.

Wanting to decide whether to try an IF diet for a bulk, or is it just too difficult to get the calories in withing the 8 hour eating window.

What benefits could an IF diet provide over a traditional more flexible bulking diet?


Thanks for advice.

Everyone is different, but you are around my size, and I can EASILY eat more than enough calories. In fact, I still have to monitor my calories because if I don't I will gain weight. It is definitely just as effective

[machx]

Originally Posted by Ted Nugent

going to try eating a mix of fast/slow carbs pre-workout tomm. i have always broke my fast pre-workout with 1 cup oats and whey, but ive found after that meal i lose a ton of energy and just feel like im dragging chains :/ going to experiment and see if a {whey shake + bannana + some bread} will treat me better. im thinking the "lighter" nature of the meal wont bog me down but also give me enough of an energy boost. also going to experiment with a {snickers + whey shake/bannana + whey shake}.

I've tried several pwo meals and my favorite is just an orange about 2 hours before and then a red bull half hour before

[Scott~]

Originally Posted by stackcalB

Just want to know if anybody has done a successful bulk while on an intermittent fasting diet.

I've been using IF for great results for a cut, and now want to bulk.

Wanting to decide whether to try an IF diet for a bulk, or is it just too difficult to get the calories in withing the 8 hour eating window.

What benefits could an IF diet provide over a traditional more flexible bulking diet?


Thanks for advice.

www.leangains.com

Martin himself has bulked and cut with IF.

[908]

Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan

Bro-science at it's best.

People that know what they're talking about tend to refute claims with actual scientific knowledge...

Originally Posted by Theenforcer1

LOL. Yeah so all those people over in africa that are lucky to get one meal a day are just so fat...ignore the constant fed overweight american where 2/3 of all americans are overweight/obese. Funny how culture where food is overly abundant (meaning more constant feedings) is overweight, where food is not overly abundant (meaning less constant feedings) people are underweight. Fact is, it is calories in vs. out. Your body doesnt create energy, it only comes from what goes in the mouth. If you believe what your spewing there...then you dont believe in the laws of physics...and if thats the case...im just...well I quit lol

I can't believe you would compare people in Africa you idiot... there's a difference between barely being able to find something to eat at all and eating close to daily maintenance calories in one sitting.

You talk about overweight americans... Many americans suffer from binge eating which in a sense is a form of IF.. people have busy lifestyles so don't get to eat balanced meals throughout the day and then when they finally get a chacne to eat they pig out...

You didn't make a point with the rest of our post...


Also, just to add.. I talked to my Exercise Physiology professor and asked him if he's heard of IF and he said yes and believed it was utter "bull ****. There is no scientific evidence showing that starving yourself is a great form of dieting. Additionally, pictures can't be used as a back up to support something. Actual research is needed." Professor went to Uva for undergrad, got doctorate at Arizona State, has been teaching at Rutgers for a while, worked with several pro US teams (I think mainly soccer), and has written articles for Men's Health. So I think that's a pretty worthy source that also agrees the science behind IF is shady at best.

[bango skank]

908: Are you on IF?

[bango skank]

Originally Posted by 908

Probably not very practical. You know how sumo wrestlers gain so much weight? They fast all day and have 1 huge meal.

What You Can Learn about Fat Loss and Gain from Sumo Wrestlers

[908]

Originally Posted by bango skank

908: Are you on IF?

Was on it and was planning on staying on it for a while before I had to go on vacation and wouldn't of been able to continue it. I'm doing a different diet plan now that provides actual research for every single aspect of the diet.

Originally Posted by bango skank

What You Can Learn about Fat Loss and Gain from Sumo Wrestlers

Nice catch. It doesn't seem like its clear cut what the point of it is though. It acknolwedges that IF is very similar to the approach Sumo wrestlers use to put on so much fat but notes that there are key differences. It says in order to avoid this you will want to spread out your meals even while on IF... which only reinforces the comment I made about eating only one meal a day.

[bango skank]

Well, those of us who are getting what we want from IF (despite the lack of actual human based studies) would appreciate it if you didn't poo-poo our success.

And there are other notable differences between sumo wrestlers lifestyles, specifically their choice of diet (high carb/low fat) and their excessive sleep patterns.

And the "one meal a day" style of IF is only one style. I, and many others here, including the originator of this thread, Martin, do not follow the "Warrior Diet" style of IF and we eat multiple meals (3+) per day.

[cjhannsz]

Today is day one of my 30-45 day trial of IF. First and foremost, I want to see how it effects and works into my current lifestyle.

I will be eating very slightly under my BMR, with hopes of continuation of strength building, and slight fat loss.

I'm thinking about blogging it, because this is a good chance to test out this type of diet.

[908]

Originally Posted by bango skank

Well, those of us who are getting what we want from IF (despite the lack of actual human based studies) would appreciate it if you didn't poo-poo our success.

And there are other notable differences between sumo wrestlers lifestyles, specifically their choice of diet (high carb/low fat) and their excessive sleep patterns.

And the "one meal a day" style of IF is only one style. I, and many others here, including the originator of this thread, Martin, do not follow the "Warrior Diet" style of IF and we eat multiple meals (3+) per day.

1) I don't think you read my posts previous to that one. I also used IF though for a short time. I set PRs pretty much every single workout I was on it.

2) I don't care about knocking peoples success. If you do something to improve your body then that's great. I love everything about human anatomy and performance and the things we can do to manipulate the body. It's for this reason that I actually tried IF. Had I only been interested in things that had significant research behind it I would not have chosen this.

3) I'm fully aware it isn't the only style of IF. Once again, I was simply saying that eating ONE meal a day was not a very productive way of dieting even through IF. The article YOU provided as a response to my post actually backs up what I said...

4) Pictures online is not an acceptable means of backing something up. Without a controlled study in this field you really can't preach something as being a great way to do something. I can make up a workout right now. If I go set a PR next week and get videos of it does that mean I can say that my workout plan is great and people should do it instead of others? In addition to which, even dumb diets work, initially. Hopefully, IF stands the test of time and doesn't lead to plateaus but I haven't read anyones journal yet that has done IF for an extended period of time.

[machx]

Originally Posted by 908

Also, just to add.. I talked to my Exercise Physiology professor and asked him if he's heard of IF and he said yes and believed it was utter "bull ****. There is no scientific evidence showing that starving yourself is a great form of dieting. Additionally, pictures can't be used as a back up to support something. Actual research is needed." Professor went to Uva for undergrad, got doctorate at Arizona State, has been teaching at Rutgers for a while, worked with several pro US teams (I think mainly soccer), and has written articles for Men's Health. So I think that's a pretty worthy source that also agrees the science behind IF is shady at best.

And the world is also flat

[raviraj]

Originally Posted by 908

People that know what they're talking about tend to refute claims with actual scientific knowledge...



I can't believe you would compare people in Africa you idiot... there's a difference between barely being able to find something to eat at all and eating close to daily maintenance calories in one sitting.

You talk about overweight americans... Many americans suffer from binge eating which in a sense is a form of IF.. people have busy lifestyles so don't get to eat balanced meals throughout the day and then when they finally get a chacne to eat they pig out...

You didn't make a point with the rest of our post...


Also, just to add.. I talked to my Exercise Physiology professor and asked him if he's heard of IF and he said yes and believed it was utter "bull ****. There is no scientific evidence showing that starving yourself is a great form of dieting. Additionally, pictures can't be used as a back up to support something. Actual research is needed." Professor went to Uva for undergrad, got doctorate at Arizona State, has been teaching at Rutgers for a while, worked with several pro US teams (I think mainly soccer), and has written articles for Men's Health. So I think that's a pretty worthy source that also agrees the science behind IF is shady at best.

908 hi ,
see if you see this eating style i mean Intermittent Fasting its not starving . as you know just a mere 30gms of cassien takes nearly 7 hours to digest and again in your eating window ur also eating many meals i assume everybody eats atleast 3 so there is a good amount of food in ur gut now during the fasting we are not starving the body because they body is digesting some of the food and asimilating what it needs . the fast also gives the body to repair and remove many unwanted things from your body .
i do know that there are not many studies regarding this style of eating but again perosnal experience allways is greater then studies . if you would have done this more say a month or maybe 2 or 3 months made some blood test strenght levels body composition then you could have judged whether its great style or not for yourself .
6 times eating also made people lean and put leans mass and many found it as a worst protocol finally it boills down to what gives u results in real world and what suits your lifestyle .
again there are many professors who say this is crap and there are many who say this is one of the best way to keep your body healthy including phd doctors .
iam from india and iam a hindu in our religion this is a common thing i have many friends who everyweek do 16 to 18 hrs of fasting atleast 2 times . if you have heard about ayurveda it suggest that fasting must be a integral part of your daily routine ...... and again in the eating window if you eat all that crap giving yourself a silly explanation that the fast has improved my insulin sensitivity then this diet will fail no matter how strict u do it , by this i dont mean u do this i mean there are many people who do this way .
it will be really fantastic that people who are doing this style of eating for some days and months now can provide some of there results regarding body compostion , and other things .....both good and bad points that will be good guidance and help for people who are stating this for the first time .
people like W8, mathor, scott , ru , and martin who have allways been a great sourse of information if they are free and have some time they must contribute so people can get a nice guidance if they are doing something wrong or going perfect .thanx -raviraj