Phil Heath and Weight Classes in the IFBB

[thatsdefyo]

It is too bad Phil Heath has to get bigger in order to truly compete with the Jay Cutlers and Ronnie Colemans. Some guys will never weigh 300 pounds and 99% can't do it without sacrificing their midsection.

The IFBB should at least try and reintroduce the concept in a smaller show. Something like 220 pounds and under. That way a lot of guys can focus on conditioning and make the weight class.

My suggestion is to do it at the Colorado Pro. Didn't Shawn Ray set up that show (I'm not exactly sure what his involvement is) but in any case it seems that he would back the idea since he has always been a smaller competitor and favored lighter athletes. Looking at a picture of Phil Heath made me more in favor of this concept. I'm a big Ruhl fan but I just can't see Heath going down that path...

Any thoughts?

[The_Big_E]

I see your points but I think it would be futile until the judging in general changes. What would really be the difference... they'd win a weight class btu the over all would still go to a "Mass Monster".

It's the mentality that needs to change not the structure =)

Reps for ideas though!

[TJ_Strong]

I agree with you on that one.

There is too many guys that just possible cant get as big as the IFBB wants them to be. Even if they do get that big they probably will walk on stage looking like kovacks. Everyone hyped him up, saying get bigger, get bigger. He finally got as big as everyone wanted him to be, but when he got in stage he was a laughing stock.

Many smaller guys like Dexter, Melvin, Phil, Rockel, and Troy have such great lines and seperation, i'd hate to see them destroy that just to play the size game with the big boys.

[The_Big_E]

I agree with you on that one.

There is too many guys that just possible cant get as big as the IFBB wants them to be. Even if they do get that big they probably will walk on stage looking like kovacks. Everyone hyped him up, saying get bigger, get bigger. He finally got as big as everyone wanted him to be, but when he got in stage he was a laughing stock.

Many smaller guys like Dexter, Melvin, Phil, Rockel, and Troy have such great lines and seperation, i'd hate to see them destroy that just to play the size game with the big boys.

Agree 100%... I would hate to see Phil and the others try to play that game and ruin what they have... which I hope is the future of IFBB physiques.

[stealth_swimmer]

I don't think the weight class would help too much. It would help some people but the bigger people would still dominate the division. IT just depends on how smart the bodybuilders are. The people like Melvin, Troy, and Heath are not going to try to get to 300 IMO because they know that aesthetics is what got them there and they are doing a good job of keeping their waistlines while getting bigger and still coming in conditioned.

I think that bb'ing is starting to favor the total package look. Maybe the Olympia will change but even if it doesn't all the smaller shows seem to be going that way (with the exception of Branch's win this year...I don't see how he won, it wasn't size OR conditioning and DEFINATELY not aesthetics that won him that show).

Victor, Dexter, Heath, and Melvin are all top tier pros and I think that shows that the overall package is being favored now. Symmetry, conditioning, aesthetics, AND mass put together.

[Oh_Riginal]

I don't think, as a whole, it's a great idea. Sure, it would be nice for some of the smaller guys to get a much deserved win that they normally wouldn't have gotten against the mass monsters, but there will always be the argument of mass monster vs. small and aesthetic, and which is better. If there is an overall winner at these type of shows, you'll always hear the argument over which class winner was better, like Big E said. Hypothetically, if Phil Heath wins the under 220 lb. Olympia, and Jay wins the over 220 lb. Olympia, you'll just hear the same arguments over and over that you hear now.

Also, there's an issue of splitting up the prize money, which is already a pretty small amount. If a guy nowadays gets 10-15,000 for winning a smaller show, then I think there's gonna be less to go around with two classes.

[stealth_swimmer]

Also, there's an issue of splitting up the prize money, which is already a pretty small amount. If a guy nowadays gets 10-15,000 for winning a smaller show, then I think there's gonna be less to go around with two classes.

That's another reason why I think that there should not be weight classes.

[thatsdefyo]

I don't think, as a whole, it's a great idea. Sure, it would be nice for some of the smaller guys to get a much deserved win that they normally wouldn't have gotten against the mass monsters, but there will always be the argument of mass monster vs. small and aesthetic, and which is better. If there is an overall winner at these type of shows, you'll always hear the argument over which class winner was better, like Big E said. Hypothetically, if Phil Heath wins the under 220 lb. Olympia, and Jay wins the over 220 lb. Olympia, you'll just hear the same arguments over and over that you hear now.

Also, there's an issue of splitting up the prize money, which is already a pretty small amount. If a guy nowadays gets 10-15,000 for winning a smaller show, then I think there's gonna be less to go around with two classes.

Good point, I would just like to see it done. They should let the athletes decide if they want one, but I bet they would probably vote against it anyways...

Introducing it at the Colorado Pro seemed like a good idea to me at the time.

[thatsdefyo]

That's another reason why I think that there should not be weight classes.

Another good point, If prize money in general was increased everyone would be much happier

[Oh_Riginal]

Another good point, If prize money in general was increased everyone would be much happier

Easier said than done. The pros need more money invested into them, and the sponsors really need to dig deeper into their pockets.

If they could get the money, I don't think the pros would mind this idea. Smaller guys like Dave Henry and Ahmad Haidar would finally get some well deserved due, and I think some of the less successful mass monsters would drop some pounds and transition into the smaller weight class. It would be easier on their bodies not to have to maintain so much weight, and it might help to give bodybuilding a bigger push towards the aesthetic physique.

[Flex500]

I don't think the weight class would help too much. It would help some people but the bigger people would still dominate the division. IT just depends on how smart the bodybuilders are. The people like Melvin, Troy, and Heath are not going to try to get to 300 IMO because they know that aesthetics is what got them there and they are doing a good job of keeping their waistlines while getting bigger and still coming in conditioned.

I think that bb'ing is starting to favor the total package look. Maybe the Olympia will change but even if it doesn't all the smaller shows seem to be going that way (with the exception of Branch's win this year...I don't see how he won, it wasn't size OR conditioning and DEFINATELY not aesthetics that won him that show).

Victor, Dexter, Heath, and Melvin are all top tier pros and I think that shows that the overall package is being favored now. Symmetry, conditioning, aesthetics, AND mass put together.

I don't know man. I think the new standard has started and it is not going the way people thought. It is moving from


mass at all costs, the bigger the better to mass at all costs while keep the x-frame at all costs.

Melvon will be onstage at olympia around 270 if he keeps competing. Quincy taylor is talking about being over 320 and toney freeman is talking about being over 300 at the 2008 olympia. Same with victor martinez.

The only difference now is instead of just wanting to be 300 pounds and not giving two sh*ts about anything else they are all going for that toney freeman look.

For the sport to change and with all the new mandates I thought we would start to see smaller guys. We're not. We are going to see bigger guys with smaller waists.

Anyway I am getting off topic. My point is that everyone on here acts like after a few years go by all the older guys will be done and we will have a bunch of 210 pound guys on stage. Not gonna happen. I guarantee in the next 5-10 years you'll have more 270+ pound guys on stage at the "O" than ever before. There waists will just be a little smaller.

This is why I think weight classes are good. Some of these guys that are 5'2" to 5'5" are just not, no matter what going to be big enough to ever get any notoriety. I think it is good to give them a chance to at least win a weight class.

However, I am with you on the prize money issue, that is a tough one...

[Uriel_da_man]

If there were weight classes the 5'10" 220lbs guys would get destroyed by the 5'6" 220lbs guys.

They should have different competitions for that IMHO. Something like a "Figure Olympia" or something in which symmetry and proportions were valued more than just size. Then you could have a 230lbs Figure Olympia and a 280lbs Mr. Olympia, win-win, everybody's happy.

[Flex500]

If there were weight classes the 5'10" 220lbs guys would get destroyed by the 5'6" 220lbs guys.

They should have different competitions for that IMHO. Something like a "Figure Olympia" or something in which symmetry and proportions were valued more than just size. Then you could have a 230lbs Figure Olympia and a 280lbs Mr. Olympia, win-win, everybody's happy.

their would be virtually no "fan appeal" for figure olympia guys though. Sure we can all talk about how we like aesthetic guys but in the end people PAY to see the big guys.

Also, there are lots of aesthetic type guys doing well in shows now.

That is why I am actually more for height classes.

[Contract Killer]

It is too bad Phil Heath has to get bigger in order to truly compete with the Jay Cutlers and Ronnie Colemans. Some guys will never weigh 300 pounds and 99% can't do it without sacrificing their midsection.

The IFBB should at least try and reintroduce the concept in a smaller show. Something like 220 pounds and under. That way a lot of guys can focus on conditioning and make the weight class.

My suggestion is to do it at the Colorado Pro. Didn't Shawn Ray set up that show (I'm not exactly sure what his involvement is) but in any case it seems that he would back the idea since he has always been a smaller competitor and favored lighter athletes. Looking at a picture of Phil Heath made me more in favor of this concept. I'm a big Ruhl fan but I just can't see Heath going down that path...

Any thoughts?

That's kinda like making an NFL Division B for guys who just aren't fast and strong enough. Makes no sense. You wanna compete with the best, you gotta be the best, you can't just criticize all the rules instead until they cater to your exact liking.

[Flex500]

That's kinda like making an NFL Division B for guys who just aren't fast and strong enough. Makes no sense. You wanna compete with the best, you gotta be the best, you can't just criticize all the rules instead until they cater to your exact liking.

I think that is kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

Some of these smaller guys are actually better than the bigger guys but they are no winning because their structure just doesn't allow them to look big enough next to someone 6 inches or more taller.

The problem is it is just to hard as a judge to give a guy who is 4-6 inches shorter and 40 to 60 pounds lighter than the next guy the trophy. Even if the smaller guy is actually an overall better bber with a better physique.

[thatsdefyo]

I think that is kind of an apples to oranges comparison.

Some of these smaller guys are actually better than the bigger guys but they are no winning because their structure just doesn't allow them to look big enough next to someone 6 inches or more taller.

The problem is it is just to hard as a judge to give a guy who is 4-6 inches shorter and 40 to 60 pounds lighter than the next guy the trophy. Even if the smaller guy is actually an overall better bber with a better physique.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

Contractkiller, the smaller guys aren't being rewarded, and I agree, If you can't hang with the current judging criteria then you need to try and match it. Its just some of the smaller guys are better than the bigger guys placing higher.

[thatsdefyo]

I know we will probably never see a class division, it would just be kind of cool to see a show like how it used to be, I think a lot of fans would come out to support it.

I think Priest is all for it.

Pro Bob what do you think about it?