Football / Workout schedule help ... starting MONDAY! need help !!!!

[rm_777]

posted in teen bodybuilding, but need help with workut problem

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My situation…any advice needed

I need help on bulking up for RB for football (so I can continue playing football at next level – ive only played football for 2 years and people have told me to stay at RB), but need advice…I wanna keep this in teen forum, because more experts here can help me here (im starting Nov 8th)

INFO:

6’2, 168 pounds, 17 years old – finished football season, near 10% Body Fat…Although it is very skinny, im bigger then I look and my RB coach said I could probably easily gain 25 pounds …and I need help bulking up to as much as I can for football. I had a good year although Im the tallest and skinniest RB in my area, and I was getting a lot of attention from other teams, and if I wanna play at next level I need to train properly…

Im somewhere between beginner-intermediate in terms of weightlifting experience, and Ive had no experience with supplements, I gain weight normally, but my lower body is MUCH stronger then my upper body (because of other sports like track and soccer).

PROBLEM:

I wanna gain as much weight in pure muscle as possible with the help of protein powder and the right food. Ive got till March (when tryouts start) to decide if I have gained enough weight to play summer football (I need experience), but I would like to gain 20 pounds at least (I don’t think I can accomplish that for summer football). I also start indoor soccer in Feburary for school (which is twice a week – I think Tues and Thurs), but the other days I would like to weight train…

I met with a personal trainer last year, who finally gave me a workout…my primary goal of this weight training is to gain 20 pounds while keeping muscle tone …please evaluate the workout schedule and comment on it (ive got VERY limited weights at my small school, mostly all are core exercises)

My schedule from Nov 8th till Feb would like like this:
Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri – workout…Wed, Saturday – running or footwork training

And in Feb it would probably be:
Mon, Wed, Fri – workout…Tues, Thurs – Indoor soccer

This personal trainer has played football, but I dont know if he realizes I need to need to gain more upper body muscle and strength cause thats where im really lacking, also... it looks kinda suspect, help needed

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some recommendations were:

- DROP THE FLYES! ADD INCLINE PRESSES
- DO PULLUPS INSTEAD OF LAT PULLDOWNS! ALSO, DO DEADLIFTS AND HANG CLEANS/ POWER CLEANS! THAT'S WHERE STRENGTH AND SIZE COMES FROM
- GO WITH CLOSE GRIP BENCH PRESS OR FLOOR PRESS!
- SAVE THE WRIST CURL AND DO ANOTHER SET OF HANG CLEANS WITHOUT STRAPS
- SQUATS! GOTTA DO THEM! DROP LEG CURLS AND EXTENSIONS AND START SQUATTING: WIDE STANCE, CLOSE STANCE, MEDIUM STANCE, WHATEVER! START DOING SQUATS! DO HEAVY CALF RAISES, YOU'LL MOST LIKELY GET ENOUGH AEROBIC WORK FOR YOUR CALVES BY DOING ALL YOUR FOOTWORK!

But I need people to add specifically to my schedule, and is my workout split into 2 days? or is it a split workout.... ?


HELP!!!!!

[ravadongon]

You can try my routine (2 day split, link in my signature), if you want. You'll probably gasp when you see it and think how can you gain size and strength from that (which is what I used to say if I saw something like that), but I and many others have proved that you can gain great size and strength from routines like that.

I think it's perfectly tailored for you're needs. You'll gain size, strength, explosive power and you'll get more then enough rest.

Most importantly eat well. It's not just the training that'll make you big, it's the combination of that + eating and sleeping. When I mean eat I mean you'll need around 3500 good calories per day, over 200g of protein and around 400g of carbs, as well as some good fats.

[JimJr1660148]

I am looking for a good mass building workout program and mass gaining diet.
I am
Height- 6'0.5"
Weight- 203-206lbs
Waist- 34-35"
Arms- 14.75"
Shoulders- 50"
Chest-45"
Quads-23.5"
Forearms-11.5"
I need to GAIN GAIN GAIN SIZE please help me out
I have no clue how many calories I should be eating, how much protein,carbs, or fat I want huge gains.
I want to minimize or close to nothing in waist.
But I need no know what good carbs are,bad,good fats bad fats
I want to try to get to a solid 220-230LBS!!!!!

[dookie1481]

I am looking for a good mass building workout program and mass gaining diet.
I am
Height- 6'0.5"
Weight- 203-206lbs
Waist- 34-35"
Arms- 14.75"
Shoulders- 50"
Chest-45"
Quads-23.5"
Forearms-11.5"
I need to GAIN GAIN GAIN SIZE please help me out
I have no clue how many calories I should be eating, how much protein,carbs, or fat I want huge gains.
I want to minimize or close to nothing in waist.
But I need no know what good carbs are,bad,good fats bad fats
I want to try to get to a solid 220-230LBS!!!!!

Don't try to gain weight for the sake of doing so. Post in the Sports Training forum for some workout help. Being a good RB is about being explosive, strong, and agile. The weight will come. I assume you are in high school. If you have talent, you will be noticed. However, if you get super concerned about your size and add 30 pounds of useless muscle, your performance will suffer and you will not be as good. The training table in college will put weight on you. Focus on the core lifts (Power Clean, Deadlift, Squat, Bench Press) and work on your skills (blocking and recieving out of the backfield come to mind; a lot of backs can run, but very few have the complete package) and you will get noticed.

[Chris999]

Don't try to gain weight for the sake of doing so. Post in the Sports Training forum for some workout help. Being a good RB is about being explosive, strong, and agile. The weight will come. I assume you are in high school. If you have talent, you will be noticed. However, if you get super concerned about your size and add 30 pounds of useless muscle, your performance will suffer and you will not be as good. The training table in college will put weight on you. Focus on the core lifts (Power Clean, Deadlift, Squat, Bench Press) and work on your skills (blocking and recieving out of the backfield come to mind; a lot of backs can run, but very few have the complete package) and you will get noticed.

no such thing as "useless muscle"

[rm_777]

CAn SOMEONE ACTUALLY HELP ME....EXPERTS I NEED HELP BEFORE MONDAY PLZ !!!

[dookie1481]

no such thing as "useless muscle"

There sure is, if you decrease your power/weight ratio. For an athlete, if it doesn't make you faster or stronger, it is pointless.

[dookie1481]

CAn SOMEONE ACTUALLY HELP ME....EXPERTS I NEED HELP BEFORE MONDAY PLZ !!!

Did you even read my post?

[dookie1481]

Since I don't want you to train like a retard (although it sounds like your trainer has some good recommendations judging by his comments) I'll give you a link. This is supposed to be a great program, and Dr. JB knows his **** better than most guys around. This is specifically for FB players. Read:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...gridiron_1.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...gridiron_2.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...gridiron_3.htm

Let me clarify what I said two posts ago. I said there is no point in increasing muscle w/o increasing performance. I misspoke a bit. For a FB player, after the season (the beginning of your offseason training cycle) is a good time to regain any mass lost during the season. However, this should only be the focus during a base or hypertrophy microcycle. Don't train like a bodybuilder or you will lose (or at least fail to improve) performance. And by the way, judging by your size, I can only assume that you eat far too little. A visit to the nutrition forum is most certainly in order.

[Brawler]

CAn SOMEONE ACTUALLY HELP ME....EXPERTS I NEED HELP BEFORE MONDAY PLZ !!!

This shoud help you. 2 week cycles. Do 4 cycles ( 8 weeks )
I use this with some of my HS football players. good luck

Week 1
Monday: Weight training: Bench press (5 sets of 5 reps), Clean and jerk (5 X 5), support exercises (neck, arms, lats, abdomen, hamstrings, calves); jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Tuesday: Football skills, 2-miles interval training on track: stride or sprint the straight-a-ways (100 meters), jog or walk the turns; plyometrics (choose six exercises); stretching
Wednesday: Weight training: Squats (5 X 5), Snatch (5 X 3), support exercises; jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Weight training: Bench press (5 sets of 5 reps), Cleans or snatches (5 X 5), support exercises; jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Saturday: Football skills, speed exercises, plyometrics, stadium stairs
Sunday: Rest

Week 2

Monday: Weight training: Squats (5 X 5) Bench press (5 X 5), support exercises; jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Tuesday: Football skills; Speed exercises (e.g., 100 meter sprints, high knee exercise, harness sprints, etc.); plyometrics (choose 6 exercises); stretching

Wednesday: Weight training: Cleans (5 X 3), Jerks off the rack (5 X 3), support exercises); jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching

Thursday: Rest
Friday: Weight training: Squats (5 X 5), Bench press (5 sets of 5 reps), support exercises); jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Saturday: Football skills, Speed exercises, Plyometrics
Sunday: Rest

[dookie1481]

This shoud help you. 2 week cycles. Do 4 cycles ( 8 weeks )
I use this with some of my HS football players. good luck

Week 1
Monday: Weight training: Bench press (5 sets of 5 reps), Clean and jerk (5 X 5), support exercises (neck, arms, lats, abdomen, hamstrings, calves); jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Tuesday: Football skills, 2-miles interval training on track: stride or sprint the straight-a-ways (100 meters), jog or walk the turns; plyometrics (choose six exercises); stretching
Wednesday: Weight training: Squats (5 X 5), Snatch (5 X 3), support exercises; jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Weight training: Bench press (5 sets of 5 reps), Cleans or snatches (5 X 5), support exercises; jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Saturday: Football skills, speed exercises, plyometrics, stadium stairs
Sunday: Rest

Week 2

Monday: Weight training: Squats (5 X 5) Bench press (5 X 5), support exercises; jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Tuesday: Football skills; Speed exercises (e.g., 100 meter sprints, high knee exercise, harness sprints, etc.); plyometrics (choose 6 exercises); stretching

Wednesday: Weight training: Cleans (5 X 3), Jerks off the rack (5 X 3), support exercises); jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching

Thursday: Rest
Friday: Weight training: Squats (5 X 5), Bench press (5 sets of 5 reps), support exercises); jog 20-30 minutes on treadmill or track; stretching
Saturday: Football skills, Speed exercises, Plyometrics
Sunday: Rest

Jesus Christ, his CNS will be shot in two weeks. Also, the last thing a speed-strength athlete should be doing is jogging for 20-30 min.

[Brawler]

1) This is a off season program.

2) Each day he trains it would take about 90 min.

3) He will not get CNS burn out. Do you even know how long football practice is? All all football players suffering from CNS burn out due to their practices?

4) This is a mild schedual compared to what I have my University Players do.

5) Most people (not all) that complain about CNS burn out are looking for reasons to excuse being out of condition.


If people don't want my input thats fine, I can leave!!

[dookie1481]

1) This is a off season program.

2) Each day he trains it would take about 90 min.

3) He will not get CNS burn out. Do you even know how long football practice is? All all football players suffering from CNS burn out due to their practices?

4) This is a mild schedual compared to what I have my University Players do.

5) Most people (not all) that complain about CNS burn out are looking for reasons to excuse being out of condition.


If people don't want my input thats fine, I can leave!!

Don't get all pissy when someone takes exception to one of your posts. I know you are the be all and end all to your players, but others may have differing opinions. The CNS issue has more to do with the magnitude and frequency of the fatigue than the duration. If you are doing quick lifts (clean, snatch, jerk, pulls) one day, and plyos and speed work the next, you will burn out fast. A popular solution is to do CNS-intensive activities on the same day, and less intensive activities on the off days (a la Charlie Francis).

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the position specific exercises/drills can and should be done more often, even in the off-season (fit perfectly into the off days).

[Brawler]

Plyo's are only twice a week because they are very balistic in nature. CNS burn out is caused by training at 90% or above for 2 weeks or more, and training to failure. If you noticed I did not say "singles" or "failure" at all.

As far as the position specific exercises/drills His coach should know what he needs to work on.

Charlie Francis is a Sprint/ track coach not an S&C coach ( he might be but I don't think so ) Their training is a lot diffrent then Football. I'm not taking any thig a way from him he is a good track coach.

[dookie1481]

Plyo's are only twice a week because they are very balistic in nature. CNS burn out is caused by training at 90% or above for 2 weeks or more, and training to failure. If you noticed I did not say "singles" or "failure" at all.

As far as the position specific exercises/drills His coach should know what he needs to work on.

Charlie Francis is a Sprint/ track coach not an S&C coach ( he might be but I don't think so ) Their training is a lot diffrent then Football. I'm not taking any thig a way from him he is a good track coach.

I know he is a track coach, but the principle still applys. Also, keep in mind that this is a 6'2" 165 lb. kid. He can probably do without the plyos; cleans and snatches are plently explosive (I imagine he is fairly explosive already, as he says he is a talented RB). I think that the risks outweigh the benefits in this case, not to mention reducing the load on the CNS. This would also allow for a lot of the rest of your program to remain unchanged, as that is (IMO) the big problem with it. Also, why do you recommend 20-30 min. of jogging? He should be training the energy systems used in the sport, namely ATP/CP and ATP/glycolytic.

[ravadongon]

CAn SOMEONE ACTUALLY HELP ME....EXPERTS I NEED HELP BEFORE MONDAY PLZ !!!

Listen to Dookie man! He knows his stuff

[dookie1481]

Listen to Dookie man! He knows his stuff

I'm no expert. I know a little about a little. More importantly, I know what I don't know. But I do know that some pretty well-respected strength coaches would say some of the things I have said, as they are where I have gotten most of my knowledge from.

[Brawler]

I know he is a track coach, but the principle still applys. Also, keep in mind that this is a 6'2" 165 lb. kid. He can probably do without the plyos; cleans and snatches are plently explosive (I imagine he is fairly explosive already, as he says he is a talented RB). I think that the risks outweigh the benefits in this case, not to mention reducing the load on the CNS. This would also allow for a lot of the rest of your program to remain unchanged, as that is (IMO) the big problem with it. Also, why do you recommend 20-30 min. of jogging? He should be training the energy systems used in the sport, namely ATP/CP and ATP/glycolytic.

Increased aerobic capacity facilitates lactic acid removal from the exercising tissues. This is especially important because lactate accumulation corresponds with muscle fatigue. During the course of competition, lactate concentration reaches a critical point referred to as the “onset of blood lactate” (OBLA) where the body no longer effectively removes the lactic acid. The accumulation of the associated hydrogen ions (i.e., acid) quickly leads to exhaustion. Increasing lactic acid removal through aerobic training indirectly increases football player’s anaerobic capacity.

[dookie1481]

Increased aerobic capacity facilitates lactic acid removal from the exercising tissues. This is especially important because lactate accumulation corresponds with muscle fatigue. During the course of competition, lactate concentration reaches a critical point referred to as the “onset of blood lactate” (OBLA) where the body no longer effectively removes the lactic acid. The accumulation of the associated hydrogen ions (i.e., acid) quickly leads to exhaustion. Increasing lactic acid removal through aerobic training indirectly increases football player’s anaerobic capacity.

Sure it does, but is it worth the negative fiber transformation? You'll be left with a player who can run a 5 min. mile, but he won't be as quick as he could be.

[Brawler]

Sure it does, but is it worth the negative fiber transformation? You'll be left with a player who can run a 5 min. mile, but he won't be as quick as he could be.

If you look at the program again its 3 days (60-90 min of cardio a week)

What you will get is a player who is not gasping for air. The sprints and interval training will produce plenty of speed and quickness.

Negitive fiber transfermation?

[dookie1481]

If you look at the program again its 3 days (60-90 min of cardio a week)

What you will get is a player who is not gasping for air. The sprints and interval training will produce plenty of speed and quickness.

Negitive fiber transfermation?

Fast-twitch to slow-twitch conversion. Also, interval training has been shown to increase VO2 max better than steady cardio.

[Brawler]

Fast-twitch to slow-twitch conversion. Also, interval training has been shown to increase VO2 max better than steady cardio.

Type I fibers (slow oxidative) have excellent endurance but poor strength, speed, and power. Type IIx (Fast glycolytic; formerly called Type IIb) are fast and powerful but fatigue quickly. Type IIa (fast oxidative glycolytic) are fast fibers with some endurance capacity.

The amount of diffrent fibers is genetic you can not convert fibers. You can build up one more then the others giving you a larger cross section. Fiber recruitment is dependent on the training demands.

It's like saying muscle will turn to fat if you stop lifting weights.

EDIT: intervals also deplete muscle glycogen, when steady cardo preserves it a bit more.

[dookie1481]

Type I fibers (slow oxidative) have excellent endurance but poor strength, speed, and power. Type IIx (Fast glycolytic; formerly called Type IIb) are fast and powerful but fatigue quickly. Type IIa (fast oxidative glycolytic) are fast fibers with some endurance capacity.

The amount of diffrent fibers is genetic you can not convert fibers. You can build up one more then the others giving you a larger cross section. Fiber recruitment is dependent on the training demands.

It's like saying muscle will turn to fat if you stop lifting weights.

That is antiquated thinking. I have to go to bed, but I will dig up some stuff when I get home from work tomorrow. It is being found that fibers can transform from Type IIb - Type IIa - Type I, and in some cases, the reverse. I look forward to continuing this tomorrow.

[Brawler]

That is antiquated thinking. I have to go to bed, but I will dig up some stuff when I get home from work tomorrow. It is being found that fibers can transform from Type IIb - Type IIa - Type I, and in some cases, the reverse. I look forward to continuing this tomorrow.

the Type IIb fibers will “fuse” with surrounding satellite cells (non contractile muscle cells which help support or bulwark the tenuous IIb fibers). The result of the fusion is a Type IIc fiber. Insulinlike growth factor-1 (IGF-1) stimulates the fusion process.

Type IIb fibers get destroyed very easily but they don't "transform" they "FUSE"

I will intertain any info you might have on the subject, its been fun.

Debates are a good thing, thats how we learn. I'll check back tomorrow.

[rm_777]

thanks for the comments but (dookie i did read ur post):

1) I talked to this personal trainer for 1 hour before starting to workout with him, so im using HIS program, but i need to add those excersises to gain mass....

2) Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri - workout days, Wed and Sat - Footwork drills that is exact and cannot be changed

3) I HAVE LIMITED WEIGHTS AT MY SCHOOL....so thats why i cant do anything like JB's program or anything complex, i dont have any complex machines ect as my school is dirt poor

4) can someone who is non-biased rate brawler's advice.... LOL...

5) I need advice on when and how much of whey protein powder, glutamine (do i need it at all cause its not season), dextrose, multivitams, flax seed oil....what times and how much...

might have to postpone workouts a week if i cant get this done ! SO PLZ HURRY

[Brawler]

thanks for the comments but (dookie i did read ur post):

1) I talked to this personal trainer for 1 hour before starting to workout with him, so im using HIS program, but i need to add those excersises to gain mass....

2) Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri - workout days, Wed and Sat - Footwork drills that is exact and cannot be changed

3) I HAVE LIMITED WEIGHTS AT MY SCHOOL....so thats why i cant do anything like JB's program or anything complex, i dont have any complex machines ect as my school is dirt poor

4) can someone who is non-biased rate brawler's advice.... LOL...

5) I need advice on when and how much of whey protein powder, glutamine (do i need it at all cause its not season), dextrose, multivitams, flax seed oil....what times and how much...

might have to postpone workouts a week if i cant get this done ! SO PLZ HURRY

You have recieved a lot of information, what you do with it is up to you.

If your set on using his program then what do you actualy want?

As far as protein is concerned a minimum of 1 gr. per pound of body weight is prefered.

L-Glutamine is best for recovery and you should take a minimum of 20 gr

multivitamins are good, take some.

make sure you get enough EFA's both omega 3's and omega 6

EDIT: I took a look at you "program" and you should get rid of the leg extentions their one of the most unsafe exercises you can do. The trainer you hired should have known that ( Unless hes certified by A.C.E. ....LOL!!!)

[rm_777]

EDIT: I took a look at you "program" and you should get rid of the leg extentions their one of the most unsafe exercises you can do. The trainer you hired should have known that ( Unless hes certified by A.C.E. ....LOL!!!)

alright thanks....

how come leg extensions are unsafe???

and i need to add in power cleans, dumbell press ect....bulking up excersises

what/how/how many should i add in...

[Brawler]

alright thanks....

how come leg extensions are unsafe???

and i need to add in power cleans, dumbell press ect....bulking up excersises

what/how/how many should i add in...

When the leg is bent 80 to 90 degrees or more and the sartorius, gracilis and gastrocnemius muscles contract, they create a dislocating component at the knee joint. From 180 (straight leg) to 90 degrees of flexion, most of the muscles crossing the knee provide a rotary and stabilizing effect. When there is less than 90 degrees of knee flexion a dislocating component occurs in some of the muscles. Because the knee also has weak bony and ligamentous arrangements, it puts the knee in a weak position. This weak position in a flexed state is what caused the potential damage.

There are other things wrong with the program but Leg extentsion are the worst. I'll list the others for you:

Dumbell Flys / Pec-deck puts the shoulder and rotator cuff at dangeriuos angle that the shoulder was not ment for. Also bench presses to the neck are bad.

I know the program did not have pressing exercises behind the neck but these are also bad for the rotator cuff. ( ie. press behined the neck, pull downs behined the neck ec...)

I would also drop the tricep extensions, these are ok for bodybuilding and powerlifters but not for the common athlete. Let me explain, when you do these exercise they put a lot of stress on the albow but when you then play a sport like football or a baseball pitcher you add more stress to the joint and risk being out due to injury from strained or torn tendons/ligs ec...

I'm not saying you have to take my advice but I've seen this a lot with people who don't know how to deal with athletes. Some times I feel like I'm hitting my head against the wall. If it was me I would fire your trainer and find some one who knows the " athletes needs ".

As for the mass gaining exercises are concerned its better to stick with compound exercises ( muti-joint movements ) that mimic the actions on the feild. As an RB you want to stay fast but strong so I would keep the reps rather low, under 5 reps ( after a few warm up sets of 10-12) you will gain size but the strength to weight ration will be higher.


I hope this helps, If you have any other question let me know.

Wil

[dookie1481]

When the leg is bent 80 to 90 degrees or more and the sartorius, gracilis and gastrocnemius muscles contract, they create a dislocating component at the knee joint. From 180 (straight leg) to 90 degrees of flexion, most of the muscles crossing the knee provide a rotary and stabilizing effect. When there is less than 90 degrees of knee flexion a dislocating component occurs in some of the muscles. Because the knee also has weak bony and ligamentous arrangements, it puts the knee in a weak position. This weak position in a flexed state is what caused the potential damage.

To reiterate what Brawler is saying, here is an excerpt from http://www.stumptuous.com/learnsquat.html

Why are leg extensions hard on the knee joint?

To understand why this is, it is helpful to understand the concept of shear. Shear in this case just refers to a horizontal force on the joint. Imagine two cans stacked on top of one another, and imagine that a piece of masking tape joins them. Then, imagine what happens if you hold the top can still while you push the bottom can to one side. Eventually that tape will snap. This is a simplistic description of what happens to the knee joint in a leg extension.

Here is a simple diagram that attempts to explain the difference between the squat and the leg extension. The black lines represent the thigh bone, shin bones, and knee joint (black circle). In a squat, as shown in the figure on the left, your feet are on the ground (hopefully), and the force of the load is transmitted downwards, along the length of the bones. In a leg extension machine, there is a pad against the front of your shin or ankle, and you press against it to move the weight. The foot swings upward in an arc. Thus, as you can see in the figure on the right, the pressure is coming across the shin bones, not along their length. This creates the problem in the knee joint as the shin is pressed backwards.

Leg extensions do have their place, usually in rehab. If the leg extension machine is used, it is wise to use a smaller range of motion, perhaps the top third of the movement (from slightly bent to fully straight leg), and light weight.

EDIT: Why does it say [img] code is off, yet I see people posting images?

[Brawler]

That is antiquated thinking. I have to go to bed, but I will dig up some stuff when I get home from work tomorrow. It is being found that fibers can transform from Type IIb - Type IIa - Type I, and in some cases, the reverse. I look forward to continuing this tomorrow.

dookie, What happened?