Shorter people with advantage?

[_teddy_]

Ive been reading about how people are saying shorter people have advantages because of the fact that they have shorter arms so when bench pressing or squatting less work is done due to the fact that less distance is used, etc. What exactly is it?

People also say its easier for shorter people to look bigger cause their muscles are smaller so less stretched out, hense looks more jacked.

Well heres the thing though, even though yes shorter people have less distance of motion doing squats or bench pressing, etc, but they also have smaller muscles, and also a smaller torque. Doesnt that even it out the fact that they have less distance of motion? And when we're talking about machines, some taller people actually have advantage cause the resisting torque against their muscles are smaller because their limbs are longer so they end up lifting more on machines easier. Also leverage, form, etc are all factors.

Also the term is misused I think cause when I think range of motion, I think of angles more than I do distance or displacement. And considering a good form includes a full range of motion, in that you move your limbs with the weight, with the full movements allowed from your joints, which will hopefully develop a complete muscle group. Considering that then, short people and tall people (assuming all limbs to height ratio are the same) then the range of motion is even for both parties no matter hwat the height, so the fact that their muscles look bigger on them, only goes to mean they worked harder for them?

Assume a short person was enlarged to a taller persons size or a taller person shrunk to a shorter person's size, then the shorter person lifting the same as the taller person, at the same size is more than likely gonna be bigger.

I think people just say that because they just want something to say and whine about shorter people just cause they have a better body, or can do more weight than them. Dont whine, just lift untill you look like(body) or can do as much as the shorter people. Afterall, the person lifting more, more than usually means they are stronger anyways.

so what exactly about this subject is it?

[AndrewT]

By any chance are you a short person? I'm short anyway, 5'7". I think if you have shorter limbs, yes you can lift more easier. The reason being is that there is not so much torque placed on you. Eg if you compare say a short person and a tall person doing bicep curls...during the curl, when your arm is 90 degrees to your body, maximum torque is applied. I can't quite remember the formula, but I think torque is equal to length multiplied by force. So if there is a greater length, eg longer limb, then there is more torque pushing down and hence you need to be stronger to get the same weight up. Hence shorter limbed people have it easier.

As for gaining mass, I'm not sure...but I would think both parties put on mass as easily/hard as the other. I think shorter ppl can be stronger, especially in a power to mass ratio, but when it comes to putting on mass, whether you're short or tall shouldn't matter. When I say mass, I mean proportionally. A taller person could put on more mass (in terms of weight) than a shorter person, but then again a taller person needs to put on more mass than a shorter person for the two of them to look proportionally the same. Sorry if that sounds confusing

[_teddy_]

im average id say... 510.. but i keep reading on the forum how short ppl have advantage and i dont think thats the case, but i hate it when my friends whoa rnt as built (6foot) and complain how their limbs are longer... and its harder fro them... or when i beat them at arm wrestling they complain that their arms are too long.. what kinda bull**** is that, longer arms also means larger torque..

yea torque is forcexdistance... yes youre resisting torque is higher but your applied torque is higher too so things should even out. I think that if you took a shorter guys arm with jacked up muscles and put them on a longer limb so that the muscle gets pulled out and looks less jacked, the toughness to do a workout is prob around the same... some tall ppl complain they dont look jacked all the time and they give excuses that shorter guys are easier to lift more.. but the real reason is prob cause they are ectomorphs anyways...

[PennState]

Search for my post about this from early this year... good insight with mathematical background in it. I need to bounce to class, i'll edit this and find the thread first if someone else doesn't unearth it before i get home.

[Jwil]

i dont know about everyone else, but I think the whole idea is bs. I'm the shortest one in my group of friends (5'5") and i lift alot more weight then the rest of them, and every single time we bench they complain about their longer arms giving them a disadvantage. I think it comes down simply to work ethic, whoever works the hardest will lift the most weight and will look the biggest.

[anonymous]

really i have no idea if shorter people have an advantage exercise wise... but i do know short people do look humoungous when they are not.this kid in my skool id like 1/2 inch bigger arms. he s bigger than me but it looks like he's freakin 10 times bigger. I'm 5' 9 and he's like 5' 4

[jehst]

By any chance are you a short person? I'm short anyway, 5'7". I think if you have shorter limbs, yes you can lift more easier. The reason being is that there is not so much torque placed on you. Eg if you compare say a short person and a tall person doing bicep curls...during the curl, when your arm is 90 degrees to your body, maximum torque is applied. I can't quite remember the formula, but I think torque is equal to length multiplied by force. So if there is a greater length, eg longer limb, then there is more torque pushing down and hence you need to be stronger to get the same weight up. Hence shorter limbed people have it easier.

As for gaining mass, I'm not sure...but I would think both parties put on mass as easily/hard as the other. I think shorter ppl can be stronger, especially in a power to mass ratio, but when it comes to putting on mass, whether you're short or tall shouldn't matter. When I say mass, I mean proportionally. A taller person could put on more mass (in terms of weight) than a shorter person, but then again a taller person needs to put on more mass than a shorter person for the two of them to look proportionally the same. Sorry if that sounds confusing

that sounds pretty good

[anonymous]

hey jehst y is it that u have 4 red blocks next to ur name??

[jehst]

hey jehst y is it that u have 4 red blocks next to ur name??

i'm cool

[NuggzTheNinja]

It's definately easier for short people to get the "buff" appearance.

One of my good friends works out occasionally but surely isn't a bodybuilder by any means. He looks like he juices. His diet consists of newport cigarettes, malt liquor, pizza, and cheesesteaks.

Definately easier for short people to look big. I don't think it's easier for short people to be strong though. None of the guys in the strongman competitions are too short, most of them are actually hella tall.

[_teddy_]

nah i dun think short people gain easier than taller people in terms of size for their height.. you just have to work equally as hard considering similar body genetics... other than that the tall people just dont have the genes for it, or arnt working hard enough...

[VA_meathead]

Work = Force x Distance

So...for a short person with short arms (this isn't always the case. it depends on body proportions) will not do as much work as a tall person with long arms when benching 200lbs. They may be applying the same amount of force to push the weight up, but the taller person has to push the weight a little bit further than the short person (due to differences in arm length). The taller person will end up doing more work.

in general shorter people do less work when lifting weights.

[AndrewT]

Work = Force x Distance

So...for a short person with short arms (this isn't always the case. it depends on body proportions) will not do as much work as a tall person with long arms when benching 200lbs. They may be applying the same amount of force to push the weight up, but the taller person has to push the weight a little bit further than the short person (due to differences in arm length). The taller person will end up doing more work.

in general shorter people do less work when lifting weights.

"Work" is just another term for "energy" right? So how is that strength related? Does that just mean that taller ppl will tire quicker? I think in the end, our bodies are genetically limited. If you compared two ppl, of different heights but the same proportion, I think you'll find that the taller person is stronger than the shorter. Although the taller person has a disadvantage in leverage, the taller person has much more pure mass/muscle and this more than compensates for the disadvantages in leverage. So, thus why all the strongest men contestants are pretty darn tall!

[YeOldScottsman]

i hate midgets, they scare the **** outta me yo.

[_teddy_]

no depends what you mean by distance. If by distance you mean displacement then force times distnace is energy but what i mneant by distance is its radius. Force time radius is its torque, and shorter people with shorter limbs have lower applied torque but the resiting torque is also lower. Taller people have hihgher applied torque but their resisting torque is also higher. I think all in all things even out.

Also energy really isnt the factor here cause we're talking about strength. One's strength has more to do with its force (and energy of course) rather than energy alone. And energy has factors such as eating, sleep, hormone levels, blood creatine levels, etc etc.. You dont usualyl run out of energy from lifting as much as if you were running. you usually stop at a point in lifting when your muscles are tired and physically fatiqued more than it is without enregy.

Therefore goes back to my point that tall people just whine because they either dont work hard enough, dont know how to workout properly, or are just genetically limited, and hense they whine that shorter people doesnt have to work as hard. Cause proportion wise, and range of motion wise (angles) the lifts should be the same, hense the toughness should be the same for both persons assuming same body build but differ in height.

The thing is though, the short people that do get big are usually short mesos or meso-endos that are naturally more strong capable and the tall ones that do whine are more ectos than anything, so they are genetically disadvantaged from the start. Ya dun see tall mesos whine because if they were any serious in body building, they are the ones you normally see benching 300+ pounds or are in the football team, etc anyways.

[biterman]

Just to be a smartass... torque is for roatational motion only and almost all weightlifting is linear motion.

[MrSinister]

dont care what anyone says shorties will always have an avantage in lifting, and dieting even.
For a deadlift for example ud prob have to lift the thing afoot off the ground, come on.
Someone like me, and even the taller people have a MUCH larger range of movement, our back is longer and has to come down more, legs have to bend more, weight has to go up higher when we all stretch out.
The counter argument is that our muscles are bigger anyway, not true! they may be physically larger (not talking development wise) but its not like if someone is 50% taller than someone else, they are 50% stronger. The ratio is of strength to height is not even close, so therefore imo u shorter guys have it easy.

[MrSinister]

Just to be a smartass... torque is for roatational motion only and almost all weightlifting is linear motion.

lol exactly, torque is twisting force

[_teddy_]

Yes I know torque is for rotational movements but a lot of workout movements are all about rotation too hense torque is a major factor. When youre dealing with systems with joints and forces torques come into play. Longer arm means larger applied torque

True, the height to strength relationship probably isnt linear with gradient of 1 or even remotely simple, but then again this varies from person to person depending on a lot of factors like body type, muscle density, energy, fasttwitch slow twitch, neurological control of muscles, etc etc etc. If for example a genetically similar twin was taller than the other twin, then it should be that the taller twin is also stronger than the shorter twin because he will have more msucle mass when stock. Now assume the shorter twin looks buffer. Yes you would have to displace the weight more than the shorter twin, but if the shorter twin can displace what you are displacing, it means he is stronger than the taller twin even though he is shorter. Just because he can displace that much weight, it means he is stronger. His strength to weight ratio is higher than the other. It doesnt mean its easier for him to lift the weight cause he doesnt have to displace as much, it means he is stronger and therefore can displace even what the taller twin can displace.

Lets use your example. If you are 50 percent taller than another dude and you can deadlift 200lbs, then the shorter dude comes along and deadlifts the same. The fact that he can do this, being 50 percent shorter but achieving your marks, goes to the fact that he is simply stronger, not because he doesnt have to lift as high. Relatively for him it is just as high, and with a higher weight relative to him, it is so much harder for him to lift than it is for you. Him lifting that weight, is similar to saying you lift something say you lifitng 300lbs instead.

Theres only how much hard work you do and a little genetics. Taller people can most certainly whine about shorter people's genetic advantages such as body types, leverage, etc, but to say that being short makes it easier for them is bs.

[_teddy_]

do you guys understand basic mechanics?

would you ever think in your mind that a bridge will be excerted by torques in many directions and that torque is even a factor? would you ever consider your table being related and affected by torques in anyway?

Torques are the foundation of mechanics. All your workouts are on the basis of torques too; its basically a mechanical system. Your body is a basically a system of trusts and joints. With trusts, joints and forces, theres always torques involved. What else do you even think leverage is? Better leverage means better biomechanical torque due to muscle insertion and how it is attached to the bones etc. Apart When you actually workout its all about torque as well, about how your limbs work against a resisting force.

[llamabob]

I would agree that shorter people have an advantage, but it's no excuse for anything.

But it's common knowledge that keeping correct form in exercises such as squat and deadlift is mroe difficult for tall people. On squats for example, taller people's back tend to round more than shorter people, making full squats rather awkward sometimes. On deadlifts, tall people have a harder time getting the bar over their knees while keeping the back straight, meaning sumo's are needed more often.

As far as the physics go, it's a lot more complicated than your average 10th grade class. Most basic physics class leave out most variables for the purpose of basic learning and understanding, and you have to factor in phsyiological factors from both groups.

[_teddy_]

The fact that its harder for them to keep form is cause proportionally those taller people are not as developed compared to the shorter ones that can hold better form.

Theres a reason why gymnasts tend to be shorter rather than taller people cause for their height they have better strength and it is much much harder to find and preserve a taller person with similar strength to height ratio, that is needed to perform the moves of gymnasts. If you enlarge a gymnasts to a height of 6'5 they will be scaringly huge.

Also, considering serious body builders, that if you are a mesomorph with genetic advantage, then its a plus. When you are a tall mesomorph, it helps even furthur. You dont see a tall mesomorph complain about short mesomorphs that its easier for them to lift, because since they are both biomechanically similar in ratio and structure (bone structure and muscles etc) that taller mesos are simply stronger due to their taller stature and higher muscle mass. Taller ectomorphs who are hard gainers will whine about shorter mesomorphs due to their own lack of genetic advantages, that the shorter mesomorph have; and becase of this advantage they can outdo or be in par with the taller ectos simply due to better genetics.

The fact of the matter is, taller people are stronger. The general proportion to height and strength is that the taller you are the stronger you should be. Then comes in other factors like genetics and body type, etc. That is probably where the shorter people gain back some advantages over taller, less genetically gifted individuals. How come taller guys dont whine about the many short weaklings who cant even lift anything, except they whine about the few short genetically gifted, simply cause they stand out, and can outdo them. Its in a way sort of jealousy id say.

And yes the complete model of the biomechanics of the workout will be much complicated than torques and forces alone, but a simple model is good enough representation because since all other factors vary, the main factors (such as torque and forces) are always going to be the same given the same situations. Thats the point of mechanical models, to mimic life to show estimates and prove things mathematically.

[_teddy_]

To even suggest that shorter people are easier in dieting is just proof that youre speaking with no basis common sense. The fact that someone is taller means that he has more muscles (higher metabolism), has more displacement of limbs, hense more work, and therefore when you run on a treadmill you burn fat at a proportionally similar rate compared to a shorter person would. A taller person will have more fat in terms of volume or mass just cause he is bigger but proportionally it is similar to a similar but shorter person. Both have to work just as hard to achieve something.

All it boils down to is how hard you work, and take genetics as a gift or advantage over others. But its all about how hard you work that gives you the results. Not because of someones height.

[_teddy_]

...bump

[amralsakran5]

i will tell you the story of bodies real quick from farasah science tall and short people both physical scientific advantages for them both first two rules "muscles are moved by energy by the nervous system" the energy from the torque in the bones that the nerves go through the second rule the "torque= force mutliplied by distance "of bones"" so that shows it clear i think energy of length the nervers go through the bones by torque rule, next strength for arms not determined from tall body or tall arms but from shoulder width ex/ mike tyson, batista, mark henry all have this energy in arms tyson is mid height both remains tall no differences in the energy except the nature of their muscles the lighter it is the more enrgy go faster the more heavier muscles help lefting weights less speed in energy movemoment "in arams" the arms it self have no energy but the taller it's as long as the height of the body equal it's tall relatively means toughest torque in arms not strong torque like in wide shoulder that's all known from science called farasah or like some folk say "physiognomics" so for tall people altogetherthey have the torque for whole body movements and in legs force too not for arms except the toughness of the torque "more torque more toughness in it" anyways by science not the force all in that there's alot to measure power in the human body last but not least short people might not have that enough torque but hiii hi hi the science says too the smartness as whole in meaning not particular meaning say the "ratio between head size and body size in any creature smaller = more inteligence and vise versa" so short people may have another kind of powers like in blood or in muscle structure or even by working out their muscles more but they have inteligence tall people can't have it also tall people known in my science they have rough hearts in every thing and known for their ego but also short people known for the ability to plan right and stunts we know chineese do that any way the guy who is talking knows the science cause he saw it by experience of himself and others i am 1.83 meters with wide lungs triangluar width shape with 0.5 meters shoulder length and light muscles and more better nervous system i am all about energy with fat movement, i hope that's was the perfect thing goodbye>>>