Do post-exercise carbs actually help?

[Elliptical Envy]

DYA is among my favorite proteins Ive ever used, XF ultra peptide is top notch too I used to pack bottles of blended UP, milk and PB as snacks at school

Cool. I may look into that DYA once I finish this Pro V60.

[Mises]

What I just ordered
What I usually use
Heard some good feedback on this one

I prefer blends over straight WPC or WPI due to different amino acid content. Plus I find out that I am not as hungry an hour or so after I consume a blend versus a WPI shake (I'm lactose intolerant).

Interesting....looks good. Taste good? Mix well too?

[Elliptical Envy]

Interesting....looks good. Taste good? Mix well too?

The only one I can speak on is Ultra Peptide, which does taste good and mix very well. I've heard ancedotal feedback on Pro V60 and Pro Peptide and they both seem to taste good and mix well.

[Mises]

The only one I can speak on is Ultra Peptide, which does taste good and mix very well. I've heard ancedotal feedback on Pro V60 and Pro Peptide and they both seem to taste good and mix well.

Hmm, I might have to try this stuff as soon as I finish my tub of ON Whey.

[gjohnson5]

The problem with everything that you're saying is that the only energy used during exercise is glycogen , which I don't believe is correct. Your body will use both glycogen and fat as substrates for energy simultaneously. Also I don't believe that protein metabolism starts at the point in which glycogen is expended. Your body will use protein for energy a good while before glycogen is completely expended , so It is good to use carbs to halt catabolism pre workout.

I don't believe in the post-workout simple carb shake at all, because the whole point in post-workout nutrition would be protein synthesis. You won't exhaust all your glycogen stores during a workout unless you are working out for 2+ hours or are an endurance athelete. You could get away with a low-GI carb post-workout since the aminos would be the key to halting catabolism and protein synthesis. I am not sure how protein could be used for glycogen since it isn't broken down into glucose unless you are talking about gluconeogenisis, but that would mean that you are in a starved state and glucagon is taking over.

[gjohnson5]

No, the point of post workout nutrition is recovery which includes glycogen replenishment. The exercise could be aerobic and not intended to build muscle. This is the problem with your posts in this thread

I'm sorry but this state is just ignorant. Protein, carbs, and fats all have calories. The whole point to post-workout nutrition is protein synthesis. Why is it that you want to take a simple carb to replenish muscle glycogen? It seems like you are so concerned with speed, but if you have a proper pre-workout meal that won't be a factor.

[skitman1080]

No, the point of post workout nutrition is recovery which includes glycogen replenishment. The exercise could be aerobic and not intended to build muscle. This is the problem with your posts in this thread

Muscle glycogen levels aren't nearly drained after 1 to 1.5 hours of resistance training unless it was done in a fasted state (which is just dumb IMO). A proper pre workout meal prevents muscle glycogen levels from getting anywhere near 0. Also, all those stuides done that showed better recovery in athletes who took a PWO shake that consisted of a good amount of high GI carbs such as malto or dex were done on athletes who trained in a fasted state. The truth is that slamming down 80g of dextrose or maltodextrin or WMS is just not necessary and although they will spike insulin levels and fight the release of cortisol, they will also aid in new fat storage. IMO it is best to focus on the quality of your whey protein and the BCAA content it has since this directs new protein synthesis and muscle recovery the greatest. I am not 100% against using carbs PWO however. I still put about 40g dextrose/malto because spiking insulin PWO is still good. But IMO that i have created from what i have been reading, 80+ grams of carbs PWO just isn't necessary. I'll save my carb consumption for the rest of the day and eat things that taste good like sweet potatoes

[gjohnson5]

So everyone works out for an hour. I've workout in a gym 4 hours before. Also if one does cardio after the workout , then glycogen can be diminished PWO

Anyway in terms of the insulin spike , it is not necessary. There are products to where you can swallow 80g of sugar and not spike your insulin at all. It's an assumption that 80g of carbs creates and insulin spike and thus can cause fat gain if glycogen stores are full

Muscle glycogen levels aren't nearly drained after 1 to 1.5 hours of resistance training unless it was done in a fasted state (which is just dumb IMO). A proper pre workout meal prevents muscle glycogen levels from getting anywhere near 0. Also, all those stuides done that showed better recovery in athletes who took a PWO shake that consisted of a good amount of high GI carbs such as malto or dex were done on athletes who trained in a fasted state. The truth is that slamming down 80g of dextrose or maltodextrin or WMS is just not necessary and although they will spike insulin levels and fight the release of cortisol, they will also aid in new fat storage. IMO it is best to focus on the quality of your whey protein and the BCAA content it has since this directs new protein synthesis and muscle recovery the greatest. I am not 100% against using carbs PWO however. I still put about 40g dextrose/malto because spiking insulin PWO is still good. But IMO that i have created from what i have been reading, 80+ grams of carbs PWO just isn't necessary. I'll save my carb consumption for the rest of the day and eat things that taste good like sweet potatoes

[RB12]

So everyone works out for an hour. I've workout in a gym 4 hours before. Also if one does cardio after the workout , then glycogen can be diminished PWO

Actually, i think it has been noted on a number of occassions throughout the discussions in this thread that one of the assumptions of the discussion is that we are discussing resistance training with or without light cardio, but primarily concerning 1-1.5 hrs weight training. there have been intervening comments throughout discussing objective oppinions for endurance athletes.

Anyway in terms of the insulin spike , it is not necessary. There are products to where you can swallow 80g of sugar and not spike your insulin at all. It's an assumption that 80g of carbs creates and insulin spike and thus can cause fat gain if glycogen stores are full

which products are you referring to?

[Elliptical Envy]

The problem with everything that you're saying is that the only energy used during exercise is glycogen , which I don't believe is correct. Your body will use both glycogen and fat as substrates for energy simultaneously. Also I don't believe that protein metabolism starts at the point in which glycogen is expended. Your body will use protein for energy a good while before glycogen is completely expended , so It is good to use carbs to halt catabolism pre workout.

No, the point of post workout nutrition is recovery which includes glycogen replenishment. The exercise could be aerobic and not intended to build muscle. This is the problem with your posts in this thread

I just don't feel like going through this **** again.

[RB12]

I just don't feel like going through this **** again.

i think the top of each page should have the summarized conclusion for those that are not going to read the whole thread

[gjohnson5]

R+ala
A bb.com version of it is here http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ast/ala.html
but it needs to be taken with biotin. This version is devoid of biotin and hence has much less effectiveness

I use the OTC version of the drug Insulow

Actually, i think it has been noted on a number of occassions throughout the discussions in this thread that one of the assumptions of the discussion is that we are discussing resistance training with or without light cardio, but primarily concerning 1-1.5 hrs weight training. there have been intervening comments throughout discussing objective oppinions for endurance athletes.


which products are you referring to?

[Elliptical Envy]

i think the top of each page should have the summarized conclusion for those that are not going to read the whole thread

This really seems to be an endless debate. My posts are taken out of context and I'm continually debating over a topic that I don't even have an issue with.

Have I ever made a comment about consuming carbs pre-workout?

[skitman1080]

So everyone works out for an hour. I've workout in a gym 4 hours before. Also if one does cardio after the workout , then glycogen can be diminished PWO

Anyway in terms of the insulin spike , it is not necessary. There are products to where you can swallow 80g of sugar and not spike your insulin at all. It's an assumption that 80g of carbs creates and insulin spike and thus can cause fat gain if glycogen stores are full

I think it is safe to say that the average trainee works out for about 1-2 hour. Also cardio AFTER a workout is just counter productive to trying to gain muscle mass. While burning precious energy on that cardio bike you are taking away from your body's ability to recover and generate an increase in protein synthesis. You just put your body in a more catabolic state that way and increase the chances of precious muscle being used for energy.

An insulin spike isn't necessary, but it occurs w/ any PWO shake. Any type of food whether it be a protein, fat, or carb will generate an insulin response. Whey protein alone will spike insulin levels to a certain degree.

And of course there are products that don't spike insulin levels but the "ideal" PWO carbs such as dextrose or maltodextrin or even oats DO spike insulin levels and thus can lead to fat gains.

[RB12]

[I hate] carbs pre-workout?

see, you said it again, I just "properly" captured your quote

[skitman1080]

I hate carbs!

No, i am pretty sure this is what he said

[RB12]

i am off to the gym, drinking a scoop of epic 8-beta (carbs+eaas) later

[powerman2000]

i am off to the gym, drinking a scoop of epic 8-beta (carbs+eaas) later

have a good workout boss

[gjohnson5]

The statement in bold makes no sense. Either the blood is "spiked" or it is not. If you simply meant to use the word elevate , then I apologize. But spike means that the insulin levels are extremely elevated.

Some proteins are insulin secretagogue's but the main reason whey have an insulin response is because the products have added sugars.

But once again w/a decent r+ala you can stop or atleast heavily reduce insulin response if r+ala is taken 15 miunutes before the sugars. So No an insulin spike is not necessary. Also the idea of fat gain would only happen if glycogen stores are full at the time of insulin release. But r+ala can make the muscles absorb much more sugar then normal so fat gain is also not necessary. You can plan ahead

An insulin spike isn't necessary, but it occurs w/ any PWO shake. Any type of food whether it be a protein, fat, or carb will generate an insulin response. Whey protein alone will spike insulin levels to a certain degree.

And of course there are products that don't spike insulin levels but the "ideal" PWO carbs such as dextrose or maltodextrin or even oats DO spike insulin levels and thus can lead to fat gains.

[Elliptical Envy]

The statement in bold makes no sense. Either the blood is "spiked" or it is not. If you simply meant to use the word elevate , then I apologize. But spike means that the insulin levels are extremely elevated.

Some proteins are insulin secretagogue's but the main reason whey have an insulin response is because the products have added sugars.

But once again w/a decent r+ala you can stop or atleast heavily reduce insulin response if r+ala is taken 15 miunutes before the sugars. So No an insulin spike is not necessary. Also the idea of fat gain would only happen if glycogen stores are full at the time of insulin release. But r+ala can make the muscles absorb much more sugar then normal so fat gain is also not necessary. You can plan ahead

You do realize that protein alone can cause an insulin response even though there are no carbohydrates present?

[powerman2000]

You do realize that protein alone can cause an insulin response even though there are no carbohydrates present?

Isn't the real question whether or not we need and can utilize high amounts of insulin pwo.

I personally don't see differences in muscle gains when I have used high GI versus low GI carbs for pwo nutrition.

[skitman1080]

The statement in bold makes no sense. Either the blood is "spiked" or it is not. If you simply meant to use the word elevate , then I apologize. But spike means that the insulin levels are extremely elevated.

Some proteins are insulin secretagogue's but the main reason whey have an insulin response is because the products have added sugars.

But once again w/a decent r+ala you can stop or atleast heavily reduce insulin response if r+ala is taken 15 miunutes before the sugars. So No an insulin spike is not necessary. Also the idea of fat gain would only happen if glycogen stores are full at the time of insulin release. But r+ala can make the muscles absorb much more sugar then normal so fat gain is also not necessary. You can plan ahead

Elevated is probably the best word lol. Thanks for pointing that out

But any whey w/ or w/o added carbs will generate and insulin response.

You do realize that protein alone can cause an insulin response even though there are no carbohydrates present?

x2

Isn't the real question whether or not we need and can utilize high amounts of insulin pwo.

I personally don't see differences in muscle gains when I have used high GI versus low GI carbs for pwo nutrition.

Ahhhhh by the time we find the answer to this we'll already be dead and future body builders will be laughing as they read through our old posts

[MoonMan12]

Excuse my asking, but I read through part of the thread beyond the OP and it seems to be mostly discussion. Was any conclusion reached? Also (to envy and NO HYPE) what do you guys do post workout?

[powerman2000]

Excuse my asking, but I read through part of the thread beyond the OP and it seems to be mostly discussion. Was any conclusion reached? Also (to envy and NO HYPE) what do you guys do post workout?

The conclusion is do what works best for you.

It's up to the individual.

[skitman1080]

The conclusion is do what works best for you.

It's up to the individual.

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elliptical Envy]

Isn't the real question whether or not we need and can utilize high amounts of insulin pwo.

I personally don't see differences in muscle gains when I have used high GI versus low GI carbs for pwo nutrition.

I dunno what the real question is anymore.

[leonidas300]

The conclusion is do what works best for you.

It's up to the individual.

The best statement so far.

[realitysfringe]

Man...building muscle is confusing.

[Elliptical Envy]

The conclusion is do what works best for you.

It's up to the individual.

I agree with this.

[powerman2000]

I dunno what the real question is anymore.

LOL