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  1. #1
    Registered User smeton_yea's Avatar
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    wpi high grade hydrolyzed protein

    Hi,this is for experts on protein knowledge


    wpi(hydrolyzed whey protein high grade)

    ast brand uses this kind thats why its soo effective.

    www.trueportein .com sells wpi(high grade but without a sweetner)
    just pure protein.i would have to add a sweetner.its cheaper than buying ast every month

    and if anyone told you all proteins are created equal ...then they must have no knowledge og protein
    once you start using better protein youll start seeing better results

    protein experts give some light

    will brink your thoughts
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  2. #2
    Chairman of the board Big Cat's Avatar
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    Give me a break, hydrolyzed protein is basically pre-digested. There isn't much protein left, its basically amino acids and some small peptides. The only reason they still call it whey is because it contains the same amino acids. hydrolysation of proteins means the breaking of peptide bonds. That means it has no secundary or tertiary structure to begin with, and on top of that most of its primary structure is degraded as well.

    If you consider how fast whey protein is digested and hits the blood, then its basically insane to pay more for something that will be in and out of your body even faster, leading to even greater loss of unused amino acids. Unless of course you were planning on taking 2 grams every 30 minutes ...

    That such bull**** is still proclaimed, let alone still believed in a time when people are finally starting to recognize that a whey is NOT the pinnacle of protein is frankly disconcerting to say the least.
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  3. #3
    Overtraining King Cosmonaut's Avatar
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    That such bull**** is still proclaimed, let alone still believed in a time when people are finally starting to recognize that a whey is NOT the pinnacle of protein is frankly disconcerting to say the least.
    Then im guessing you are more of a whole foods advocate or do you prefer a different type of whey than hydrolyzed?
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    Chairman of the board Big Cat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cosmonaut
    Then im guessing you are more of a whole foods advocate or do you prefer a different type of whey than hydrolyzed?
    I'm saying if you have a need for whey, then it doesn't matter one iota whether it is hydrolyzed or what not. In which case the least expensive solution is usually the best one. Whole foods are the basis, sure, but supplemented protein is a great addition. It is however ridiculous to think whey is the summum, I've been working mostly with casein, some whey before the work-out maybe. And its even more ridiculous to then claim you absolutely need a certain type of whey. Between the time you ingest it and the time it hits your blood, all you whey will look exactly the same.
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    Interesting stuff Big Cat.
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    Registered User smeton_yea's Avatar
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    Big Cat,is it true you are 17? and you are not big? what are your stats? height and weight? bodyfat percentage?

    other than that big cat why dont you research protein
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    Playboy Lifestyle JnJ23's Avatar
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    wpi hydrolyzed high grade does have more beneftis than your ordinary isolate/concentrate etc... as a matter a fact it is one of the best protein you can have. when protein is hydrolyzed it is split up into smaller chain peptides and amino acids, and that makes it more biologically accessible to the user. it's the most digestible type of protein, and most of it is absorbed through the small intestine, making it that much better...

    true protein, offers the best quality of proteins, and this is one they reccommend to all who use whey as a protein source in their diet, not to mention the best prices around.
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    wpi is the only protine i buy, i only have shakes before and after workout. the rest of my protine comes from tuna, steak, eggs and milk. Tuna is an awsome source i rec, quick and easy.
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    I must say I'm no expert but the impression I've been given from a multitude of more experienced lifters and more knowledgeable people is that hydrolyzed whey protein is digested faster and therefore gets more amino acids into your bloodstream after you workout and is often mixed with another type of whey protein to have a sort of short term time release effect. I never really learned the science behind it but it seemed logical to me in the way that it was explained because with the different varieties you were keeping your body topped off so to speak until your postworkout meal where you would consume a whole food meal to stabilize your amino acid pools until your next meal time.
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  10. #10
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smeton_yea
    Hi,this is for experts on protein knowledge


    wpi(hydrolyzed whey protein high grade)

    ast brand uses this kind thats why its soo effective.

    www.trueportein .com sells wpi(high grade but without a sweetner)
    just pure protein.i would have to add a sweetner.its cheaper than buying ast every month

    and if anyone told you all proteins are created equal ...then they must have no knowledge og protein
    once you start using better protein youll start seeing better results

    protein experts give some light

    will brink your thoughts

    the only advantage i would expect is that this is quicker digesting than other wheys. the amino acid compostion should be exactly the same

    other quality forms of whey are already very quickly digested and absorbed. So would pre-digesting it by enzymatic hydrolysis really translate into greater efficacy? I can't really imagine it would. I would like to see more research on this (your link does not work)

    Also, quicker digesting does not make a protein superior per se. In fact, most of the time you are better off with a slow digesting protein. The exceptions are times when you want to acheive high amino acid concentrations in the blood quickly - like pre or post training
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  11. #11
    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JnJ23
    wpi hydrolyzed high grade does have more beneftis than your ordinary isolate/concentrate etc... as a matter a fact it is one of the best protein you can have. when protein is hydrolyzed it is split up into smaller chain peptides and amino acids, and that makes it more biologically accessible to the user. it's the most digestible type of protein, and most of it is absorbed through the small intestine, making it that much better...

    the point is though that your digestive system can do this job on other undigested quality wheys (such as WPI) very quickly anyway. so the difference in digestion/absorption should be pretty insignificant

    you must have some evidence to show benefit of this

    is it less allergenic than whole whey? that might be a plus

    just saying "its the best" means nothing
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    Playboy Lifestyle JnJ23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    the point is though that your digestive system can do this job on other undigested quality wheys (such as WPI) very quickly anyway. so the difference in digestion/absorption should be pretty insignificant

    you must have some evidence to show benefit of this

    is it less allergenic than whole whey? that might be a plus

    just saying "its the best" means nothing

    Studies have shown that hydrolyzed proteins with short chain amino acids (di and tri peptides) can increase IGF-1.
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    IWP vs. WPI

    Okay fellas, I'm a newbie here. So, if this question sounds so god-awfully stupid, please go easy on me! I am trying to learn something here and I feel like like an idiot who has stumbled into a room full of geniuses. Having said that, what is the difference, if any, between Ionic Whey Protein and Whey Protein Isolate? Are they indeed the same thing? In all of the reading I have done on this subject so far, there seems to be universal agreement that the Isolate version is the absolute best Whey Protein that you can buy. I have also read that the pros are taking a second look at Casein Whey because it is digested at a slower rate and therefore stays in the system longer. Would someone please take a moment to explain this to me? Thanks for your time.
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    Banned Patrick Arnold's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JnJ23
    Studies have shown that hydrolyzed proteins with short chain amino acids (di and tri peptides) can increase IGF-1.

    references please
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    Originally Posted by BOMARKSF
    Okay fellas, I'm a newbie here. So, if this question sounds so god-awfully stupid, please go easy on me! I am trying to learn something here and I feel like like an idiot who has stumbled into a room full of geniuses. Having said that, what is the difference, if any, between Ionic Whey Protein and Whey Protein Isolate? Are they indeed the same thing? In all of the reading I have done on this subject so far, there seems to be universal agreement that the Isolate version is the absolute best Whey Protein that you can buy. I have also read that the pros are taking a second look at Casein Whey because it is digested at a slower rate and therefore stays in the system longer. Would someone please take a moment to explain this to me? Thanks for your time.

    Ion exchange whey protein is the most soluble whey protein (dissolves the quickest). However, in the process of making it some of the valuable protein species of the whey are lost and the product ends up being enriched in the least valuable (and most allergenic) protein - beta-lactoglobulin

    whey protein isolate (made through membrane ultra filtration) OTOH retains all the original fractions present of the raw whey itself and in the right proportions. the processing only filters out the carbs and the fat. It is the least disruptive whey processing available
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    Registered User BOMARKSF's Avatar
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    Thanks Patrick!

    Thanks for your answer Patrick. It's much clearer to me now. You know, given the importance of Whey Isolate, you would think that BB.com would have a search mechanism in place that would sort and list all of the Isolates as a separate category. Unless I've missed something, you can't find them all that way. I have had to go through the volumes of products available and jot down the Isolates. Hope their webmaster reads this! Thanks again.
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  17. #17
    - G T's Avatar
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    i'd also like to know - is there really anything that makes VP2 superior to low molecular weight non-commercial stuff (eg protein factory)?

    will VP2 really result in the best lean gains as so many say it will?
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  18. #18
    Registered User smeton_yea's Avatar
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    Wpi ,and hydrolyed high grade protein are better than most companys.When i took nitro tech i gained bigtime.I know theres alot of muscletech bashers out there but in all honesty nitrotech worked for me(i dont know what type of protein nitrotech has,but im assuming by there price is high grade protein)

    when i started taking ast's vp2 protein i gained.Im still taking it ,buts its too expensive for my budget. Im just going to buy in bulk at www.***********.com
    ,see if that link works patrick,patrick goodjob on your body from what saw in a flex magazine.Email One of the ast guys they will give you a link on TESTEDRESEARCH if your a non-beliver in high grade protein.Since your such a scientist i want to see you do studies.Btw your gabatropin looks intresting...tell me hows it cross the blood brain barrier?

    ive been taking regular gaba for about a year

    Not to sidetrack anyone..keep on with the thread..just some questions for patrick

    the website is *********** dot com
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    Originally Posted by smeton_yea
    .Since your such a scientist i want to see you do studies.Btw your gabatropin looks intresting...tell me hows it cross the blood brain barrier?

    my company has funded many studies, on prohormones and 6-OXO

    phenibut, the main constituent in gabatropin, crosses the blood brain barrier because of the addition of a phenyl group to one of the carbons. This makes it more lipophilic.
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    references please

    go to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed: type: van Loon, LJ
    you'll see protein hydrolysate ingestion increases insulin response... The data on IGF-1 isn't that solid...
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    Originally Posted by Big Cat
    Give me a break, hydrolyzed protein is basically pre-digested. There isn't much protein left, its basically amino acids and some small peptides. The only reason they still call it whey is because it contains the same amino acids. hydrolysation of proteins means the breaking of peptide bonds. That means it has no secundary or tertiary structure to begin with, and on top of that most of its primary structure is degraded as well.

    If you consider how fast whey protein is digested and hits the blood, then its basically insane to pay more for something that will be in and out of your body even faster, leading to even greater loss of unused amino acids. Unless of course you were planning on taking 2 grams every 30 minutes ...

    That such bull**** is still proclaimed, let alone still believed in a time when people are finally starting to recognize that a whey is NOT the pinnacle of protein is frankly disconcerting to say the least.

    What about DSM's PeptoPro?? I've seen the data from the casein hydrolysate on a sports-congress in Eindhoven. insulin response is enormous after ingestion...
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    Chairman of the board Big Cat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smeton_yea
    Big Cat,is it true you are 17? and you are not big? what are your stats? height and weight? bodyfat percentage?

    other than that big cat why dont you research protein
    Add about 8 years. No I'm not that big, At my biggest I was only 252, when cut my best was 225, currently I'm about 210. I do however hold degrees in Molecular biology, earning my degree in biochemistry and took two years of physical therapy. I currently train 13 top level athletes and have trained about 150 over the last 7 years, roughly 400 if you add those that I guide over the internet as well.

    I do research protein, but protein is a big field. The last protein (well peptide) I researched was GLP-I, because I consider it a prime target for treatment of obesity. We are currently in the midst of looking for more stable analogues of this peptide for pharmaceutical delivery.
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    Chairman of the board Big Cat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    Ion exchange whey protein is the most soluble whey protein (dissolves the quickest). However, in the process of making it some of the valuable protein species of the whey are lost and the product ends up being enriched in the least valuable (and most allergenic) protein - beta-lactoglobulin

    whey protein isolate (made through membrane ultra filtration) OTOH retains all the original fractions present of the raw whey itself and in the right proportions. the processing only filters out the carbs and the fat. It is the least disruptive whey processing available

    Of course all that becomes rather useless if you then denature and hydrolyze the proteins, don't you think ?
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    Chairman of the board Big Cat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BOMARKSF
    Thanks for your answer Patrick. It's much clearer to me now. You know, given the importance of Whey Isolate, you would think that BB.com would have a search mechanism in place that would sort and list all of the Isolates as a separate category. Unless I've missed something, you can't find them all that way. I have had to go through the volumes of products available and jot down the Isolates. Hope their webmaster reads this! Thanks again.
    You could always shoot the webmaster a PM or a mail, if you think this feature may be handy for people who shop at BB.com
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    Originally Posted by Dr Leucine
    go to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed: type: van Loon, LJ
    you'll see protein hydrolysate ingestion increases insulin response.....

    that comes as no surprise

    I would certainly expect it to,
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    Originally Posted by Big Cat
    Add about 8 years. No I'm not that big, At my biggest I was only 252, when cut my best was 225, currently I'm about 210. I do however hold degrees in Molecular biology, earning my degree in biochemistry and took two years of physical therapy. I currently train 13 top level athletes and have trained about 150 over the last 7 years, roughly 400 if you add those that I guide over the internet as well.

    I do research protein, but protein is a big field. The last protein (well peptide) I researched was GLP-I, because I consider it a prime target for treatment of obesity. We are currently in the midst of looking for more stable analogues of this peptide for pharmaceutical delivery.

    who is we? what pharmaceutcial company do you work for?
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    Originally Posted by Big Cat
    Of course all that becomes rather useless if you then denature and hydrolyze the proteins, don't you think ?

    If the hydrolysis is done enzmatically then it should really be no different than the digestion that happens in your gut anyway after ingestion

    so the answer is, i think, no
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    so the question is:

    does hydrolyzed whey isolate (because of speed of absorbtion) create a more anabolic environment as opposed to non hydrolyzed whey?
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    Originally Posted by smeton_yea
    Hi,this is for experts on protein knowledge


    wpi(hydrolyzed whey protein high grade)

    ast brand uses this kind thats why its soo effective.

    www.trueportein .com sells wpi(high grade but without a sweetner)
    just pure protein.i would have to add a sweetner.its cheaper than buying ast every month

    and if anyone told you all proteins are created equal ...then they must have no knowledge og protein
    once you start using better protein youll start seeing better results

    protein experts give some light

    will brink your thoughts
    My thought is, there may be some uses for hydrolyzed whey proteins, but I doubt they will have any additional effects on what matters: changes in body comp of healthy weight lifting humans. It’s also a timing issue as the semi useful slow vs fast protein studies pointed out. As Pat mentions, fast is by no means superior under all conditions. There is not a drop of real data showing these proteins are superior in healthy people. And, as I have pointed out, the real strength of whey is its ability to raise GSH and hydrolysis may negatively effect that also, though that will depend on other things like method, % hydrolyzed, etc. Finally, it’s really a marketing trick. Proteins that are fully hydrolyzed down to peptides of short length and aminos , tastes like crap. I have many more comments I could make, but I think that covers the essential points. If you have not already read my lengthy articles on whey, see:


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    If i Drink(ill pick a brand i drink now) Dymatize Elite(butter cream toffee mix) ; It'll sit in my stomach,and ill have to keep still or ill get an upset stomach.

    On the other hand,if i take ast's vp2 ,im fine.

    Im a student and im on the run in the morning,so i take vp2 in the mornings on schooldays.

    Point is vp2 doesnt just sit there.vp2 is better
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