Bulking for First Contest---Please help

[GregElder]

Ok, I've decided to do my first contest next Spring/Summer of 2005. I'm 33 years old, 6' tall, weigh 215 lbs and have been lifting for 15 years and body building(seriously) for about 10 years, with a 6 month break, at least twice.

Last year, I bulked up to about 260 lbs, and went a little too far, LOL. From Jan 2004 through August 2004, I cut and lost 53 lbs, ending up at 197 lbs on August 27th. Then, I started bulking on August 28th.

I am slowly bulking, adding about .5 - 1lb per week, because I'm more concerned about not getting to fat again. I don't have as much trouble adding size as I do cutting.

Anyway, please offer me advice on my weaknesses and give me pointers on my posing. I know I suck at most of my poses, LOL. HOW'S MY SYMETRY?

I'm especially hoping to get advice from experienced competitors like Skip, Str8flexed and other people who have competed. But, feel free to post CONTSTRUCTIVE criticism, even if you haven't competed.

I'm going to try to bulk up another 10-15 pounds by Jan. 2005, if my body fat doesn't get too high. I would end up at 225-230 if this happened, and hopefully cut to about 200 lbs for my first contest!

PLEASE LOOK AT THE "FULL BODY" PICTURE AND LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT MY SYMETRY/PROPORTIONS BETWEEN MY UPPER AND LOWER BODY. I've been working very hard on bringing my legs up.

All of these pics are from mid-October, EXCEPT for the "full body", which was taken 8/31/04 at the end of my cut.

I'm 100% Natural, no PH's or Steroids. I'm thinking about entering a Natural contest, hoping to have a somewhat level playing field.

Please offer some advice or comments---I hope to get lots of feed back.

Thanks for your help and comments!

Greg Elder

[GregElder]

Come on! 117 views and NO REPLIES???! WTF, I thought this was a Body Building site. I'm asking for advice for my first contest.

I help people out all the time on this site. How about some help in return??

WHAT THE HELL? How about SOMETHING!

[Stevo1111]

you're looking great man! You're very thick. Keep hitting those legs hard throughout the remaining bulk and it will certainly pay off. You have excellent mass and should place well at a natural contest if you come in in good condition. Good luck with the contest!

[-Jon-]

Lats, medial delts, and calves! dont forget the calves. at least in that picture, you look rather scrawny below the knee. work on that. the back shot wasnt the greatest for me to really tell, but you seem to need more mass, seems like a weak area in that shot. nice arms, some shoulder width would help balance that out a bit better imo. good luck

[Jack Wall]

You are looking good, but I do think your lats and your legs need more work. Your legs have nice cuts just need to be thicker. Your arms man are nice. Your side chest pose is real impressive. I do hope you compete because it sounds like you have put a lot of work into your body so go ahead and show the world!

[KarateChris]

Okay here we go. I'm going to take this in parts.
Part 1: Bodyparts
- Arms, shoulders, chest (in the side chest shot anyway) look phenomenal. Awesome job in this area.

- Obviously, your legs are your weak point. You know that. They definitely should be your number one priority right now. What's your leg routine like?

- Okay, it could be your posing (which will be part 2) but it looks like your back could use more thickness and width. What's your back routine look like?

- In the full body picture, one of the first things I noticed was that you have a naturally blocky waist (much like myself). This probably won't be a problem because once I was competition ready, my waist was pretty small. Your waist will shrink dramatically when you cut, BUT like myself you may always have a natrally blockier waist than others, SO time to seriously concentrate on the width of your shoulders as well as the width of your lats to give you a better V taper. Second thing I noticed again was that your legs are behind your upper body. They're cut, but they don't have the size needed to go along with your upper body YET. They're not THAT far off especially since I predict when you start cutting your upper body will lose most of the fat and your legs won't look MUCH different than they are now since they're already pretty cut. But again you need to hit those hard. Also, it looks like your traps may need some attention

Part 2: Posing
1st Picture, Side Chest: bring your front shoulder back some; you're hunching too far forward. You don't want to squeeze your pecs together.

2nd Picture, Legs: Looking pretty good. Took me 200 years to figure out how to flex my legs. You seem to get it quite well.

3rd Picture, Rear Double Bi: Your arms are too far up. Bring them down some. Start off the pose like you would be doing a lat pulldown. Pull your arms down flexing your lats, then bring your arms back up to the double bi position and make sure to spread your shoulder blades. Do you understand what I am saying?

4th Picture, Front Double Bi: Way too tense up top. It looks like you're pushing everything up towards your head. You want to try to flex your lats, but don't try doing that by pushing everything upwards. You just want to spread your shoulder blades to make the lats pop out.

Okay, I THINK that should cover it hehehe.

IMO, you'll DEFINITELY be able to compete and be competitive in a natural competition. No question. You've got some good size. Good luck with the bulking, and enjoy it while it lasts; cutting will come and it'll be a bitch, but the finished product is ALL worth it. Later.

[GregElder]

Thanks, Stevo1111, Jon and Jackwall,

I appreciate the feedback. I'll take another look at my lats. I agree with the Legs/Calves---those are my lagging body parts. But, I'm making progress.

Here are a couple of more pics, hopefully, this is a better back shot. Here's a most muscular, probably my best pose right now.

Thanks!

[KarateChris]

Thanks, Stevo1111, Jon and Jackwall,

I appreciate the feedback. I'll take another look at my lats. I agree with the Legs/Calves---those are my lagging body parts. But, I'm making progress.

Here are a couple of more pics, hopefully, this is a better back shot. Here's a most muscular, probably my best pose right now.

Thanks!

Nice back pic. That's how the pose should look, with your arms at that level.

[bobcat]

Give us your measurements bro...so we can mathematically tell you how much mass to add...

[GregElder]

First, thanks a million for all the help, Chris! Congratulations on your first contest---great job! I appreciate you helping another first timer. You reply is very detailed and it really helps me!

What's your leg routine like?.

Ok, to answer your questions, my Leg Routine:

Warm up on bike---7-8 min., Leg Extensions---2-3 sets, Leg Curls---2-3 warm up sets.

Squats, I pyramid up for 4-5 working sets. I have been doing 12-15X315, 10X405, 6-8 X 495, 10-12 X 315

Straight Leg Deadlifts---4 sets of 8-12 reps with about 275lbs, sometimes going up as high as 315.

Dumbbell Lunges---3-4 sets of 10-12 reps with 2 50 lbs Dumbbells

Leg Extensions---2-3 sets of 10-15 reps

Leg Curls 2-3 sets of 10-15 sets.

I have only been doing this since April, when I really started thinking about doing a contest. I have gotten quite a bit of Leg mass from this and thinki this routine is working good. I'm open to advice, though. Before April, 90% of time, I just did Leg Press or Hack Squats.

About every third work out, I substitute Leg Press for Squats. Once every 5-6 workouts, I do Hack Squats instead of regular Squats, especially if my Back is sore from Deadlifts.

- Okay, it could be your posing (which will be part 2) but it looks like your back could use more thickness and width. What's your back routine look like?.

Back---- 30 Chin ups (3 sets of 10 OR 4 sets of 7-8, etc)

Barbell Rows (2-3 sets of 8-12 reps)

Deadlifts (3-4 sets, pyramiding up from 10 reps to 8, 6, 6)

Wide Grip Pulldowns or Seated Cable Rows (alternated every other workout) 2-3 sets of 8-12 reps

If there's time left, I do some dumbbell rows OR hyper extensions etc. I really try not to go over 45 minutes to an hour, though.

How's that look, Chris? I'm doing every set to failure, is this bad???

- In the full body picture, one of the first things I noticed was that you have a naturally blocky waist (much like myself). This probably won't be a problem because once I was competition ready, my waist was pretty small. Your waist will shrink dramatically when you cut, BUT like myself you may always have a natrally blockier waist than others, SO time to seriously concentrate on the width of your shoulders as well as the width of your lats to give you a better V taper. Second thing I noticed again was that your legs are behind your upper body. They're cut, but they don't have the size needed to go along with your upper body YET. They're not THAT far off especially since I predict when you start cutting your upper body will lose most of the fat and your legs won't look MUCH different than they are now since they're already pretty cut. But again you need to hit those hard. Also, it looks like your traps may need some attention.

Damn, I was afraid my waist was blocky! I'm lucky I can gain mass easily but I have that damn Endomorph waistline, dammit! When I finished my cut in August, my waist was 33.75" and I was probably still about 15 lbs away from doing a contest. (see "Full Body" pic in first post) I was 197 lbs.

Yeah, I've always had trouble with Leg size---they're strong as hell, but not big enough. The Squats and SLDL's are helping, though! Glad to hear they're not THAT far off. Even Arnold got away with legs that were a little out of proportion, LOL.

Ok, what do you think about my back width and thickness now that you've seen my other Back pic, in post 4??? Still the same opinion???

Part 2: Posing
1st Picture, Side Chest: bring your front shoulder back some; you're hunching too far forward. You don't want to squeeze your pecs together.

2nd Picture, Legs: Looking pretty good. Took me 200 years to figure out how to flex my legs. You seem to get it quite well.

3rd Picture, Rear Double Bi: Your arms are too far up. Bring them down some. Start off the pose like you would be doing a lat pulldown. Pull your arms down flexing your lats, then bring your arms back up to the double bi position and make sure to spread your shoulder blades. Do you understand what I am saying?

4th Picture, Front Double Bi: Way too tense up top. It looks like you're pushing everything up towards your head. You want to try to flex your lats, but don't try doing that by pushing everything upwards. You just want to spread your shoulder blades to make the lats pop out.

I'll take your advice on the posing and will work on it. Then, I 'll post new pics with the correct technique. Hope you and others can confirm they'nre right---I want to learn! Yes, I understand your critiques---thanks!!

I have a feeling that my shoulders and Lats are wide, and I'm just not "posing" or standing right. I need to work on that.

IMO, you'll DEFINITELY be able to compete and be competitive in a natural competition. No question. You've got some good size. Good luck with the bulking, and enjoy it while it lasts; cutting will come and it'll be a bitch, but the finished product is ALL worth it. Later.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Yes, I know cutting is a bitch, I just lost 50 lbs! I know how much harder it is to cut for a contest, but losing 50 lbs during 8 months was tough!

Thanks again, Chris, you're a true asset to these boards!

[GregElder]

Give us your measurements bro...so we can mathematically tell you how much mass to add...

Ok, cool, here they are, measured COLD :

215 lbs

Waist---35 1/2"

Chest---45 1/2"

Arms--- 17.5"

Thighs--- 25.5"

Calves--- 16"

Neck---16.5"

Did I miss any???

Body Fat---Caliper Measurements---- abs---7mm, Chest--3mm, Thigh---3mm. This comes out to 7% on my chart that came with the calipers, BUT I KNOW I'm more like 11-12%(at least)

Thanks!

[KarateChris]

Your leg routine looks pretty good. You're strong as HELL too. 495 squat is nice man. Have you ever tried hitting legs twice per week? For the time being, though, I'd probably switch from DB lunges to either Leg Press or Hack Squats.

Back workout: Are those actually chin ups or are they pull ups? Switch to weighted pull ups if they are chin ups. Your exercises look good, and it's fine that you go to failure on every set since you only hit each bodypart once per week IMO.

How long have you had these workouts (i.e. how many weeks straight have you been doing this back workout?)

Well, we both have an endomorphic waist unfortunately hehe. Your back width is looking pretty good from the new pic. I'd still like to see more thickness, but thickness probably won't show up until you get lower in bodyfat.

Thanks for the kind words also. Good luck. Later.

[GregElder]

Your leg routine looks pretty good. You're strong as HELL too. 495 squat is nice man. Have you ever tried hitting legs twice per week? For the time being, though, I'd probably switch from DB lunges to either Leg Press or Hack Squats.

Thanks, I just wish the damn things would grow more. When I do 495, I only go down about 2/3 of the way to parrallel. The other sets are parallel. No, I haven't tried Legs twice per week. My legs are so sore after this current work out that it takes about 5-6 days before the soreness goes away. Maybe I could do a second leg workout and focus on Hamstrings during that workout, though.

One of my biggest problems/challenges is that I work out so hard, I think I'm usually on the brink of over training. If I add another Leg workout, that would be 5-6 days a week of working out. Might be too much.

Back workout: Are those actually chin ups or are they pull ups? Switch to weighted pull ups if they are chin ups. Your exercises look good, and it's fine that you go to failure on every set since you only hit each bodypart once per week IMO.

How long have you had these workouts (i.e. how many weeks straight have you been doing this back workout?).

They're pull ups(sorry for the misnomer) and I've been doing that routine for about 5 months. It's working (I can tell by progress pics), so I've stuck with it. Any suggestions for changing it up??? Every 4th or 5 th Back workout, I do Seated Cable Rows and Lat Pull Downs instead of Pull ups.

Well, we both have an endomorphic waist unfortunately hehe. Your back width is looking pretty good from the new pic. I'd still like to see more thickness, but thickness probably won't show up until you get lower in bodyfat..

Cool, thanks. I'll keep working on thickness.


How's your mass building going? When is your next contest?

Thanks again!

[bobcat]

Your leg routine looks pretty good. You're strong as HELL too. 495 squat is nice man. Have you ever tried hitting legs twice per week? For the time being, though, I'd probably switch from DB lunges to either Leg Press or Hack Squats.

Back workout: Are those actually chin ups or are they pull ups? Switch to weighted pull ups if they are chin ups. Your exercises look good, and it's fine that you go to failure on every set since you only hit each bodypart once per week IMO.

How long have you had these workouts (i.e. how many weeks straight have you been doing this back workout?)

Well, we both have an endomorphic waist unfortunately hehe. Your back width is looking pretty good from the new pic. I'd still like to see more thickness, but thickness probably won't show up until you get lower in bodyfat.

Thanks for the kind words also. Good luck. Later.

Yeah, pretty strong guy...If you paid close atttention, he squatted 495 for 6-8 reps!!

[-Jon-]

Yeah, pretty strong guy...If you paid close atttention, he squatted 495 for 6-8 reps!!

495 for 6-8 reps after leg extensions and curls. holy moly...


[edit] ah, warm up sets i see, makes more sense now

[KarateChris]

GregElder, once you start working out a bodypart twice per week, you'll notice that it isn't really sore anymore after a while. Your body will adapt. But you need to start off slowly. Say you do 12 sets total for quads, 10 sets total for hamstrings and 6 sets total for calves per week on your once per week split. At the beginning of a 2X per week split, I would just use the same amount of sets but HALF of it for each day. In other words, say you did lower body on Monday and Thursday; you would do 6 sets for quads, 5 sets for hamstrings, and 3 sets for calves on Monday and then again on Thursday. You would still be getting the same amount of sets in per week, but you've just increased your frequency. Once you get use to this, you can start to add on more sets. But be careful not to train to failure doing this. Now, we can have a huge discussion on what exactly is failure, but let's just keep it simple as failure is anything past that last rep that you were able to get by yourself without the help of a spotter. If you were to go for one more rep and FAIL on that rep and a spotter would have to help you, THAT rep is failure. Just stop at that last rep you can get by yourself. Also, say that first day you do legs you work quads first, well then that next day you do legs that week, work hamstrings first.

I would look into changing your back routine. Try this and see how it works: put all your back width movements first before your back thickness movements, then switch it the next week. Get it? For width try pull ups, close grip pulldowns, and lat pulldowns. Then your thickness exercises could be T-bar rows and rack deadlifts. Then next week, do something like Rack deadlifts, Reverse grip bentover rows, and T-bar rows. Then your width exercises could be pull ups and close grip pulldowns. Give that a shot and see how you like it.

bobcat, yes I noticed he did it for reps.

[GregElder]

KarateChris,

Ok, that makes since. I will definitely give the new Back Work out ideas a try. That's no problem. I'll have to see what I can do for the Leg Workouts as far as splitting them into two days. I think I can do this, I'm going to work on a schedule. I like your suggestions.

I'll have to re-search Rack Pull Deadlifts---I've seen them mentioned, but don't know how they're done. Anyone have a link??? If not, I'll search the site.

I know, at 495 lbs on Squat, my legs should be bigger than they are. I guess I shouldn't complain, I got good genetics for shoulders, chest and arms. Also, I am able to get fairly big too, but it's those damn legs that are the weakness.

All right, time to go work on turning my calves into cows---heading to the gym. I'm doing DoggCrapp calf training---it's soooooo hard! But, I think it's working. (It sure hurts like it is, LOL) It's shoulder day too---going to work on medial delts extra hard today for extra width.

Thanks guys!

[Muscle D]

[QUOTE=GregElder]

Arms--- 17.5"

Thighs--- 25.5"

Calves--- 16"

QUOTE]

Your calves should be about the same size as your arms and your quads need more size.

[GregElder]

[QUOTE=Muscle D]

Arms--- 17.5"

Thighs--- 25.5"

Calves--- 16"

QUOTE]

Your calves should be about the same size as your arms and your quads need more size.

Cool, what's the rule of thumb for leg size to be in proportion??

So, if I got my calves an inch bigger, they would be in proportion?

[J-Crash]

i don't know if anybody else mentioned it because i didn't read everything... but with how big your arms and shoulders look it looks like you could use some more size in your traps

just my thoughts

[-Jon-]

Cool, what's the rule of thumb for leg size to be in proportion??

So, if I got my calves an inch bigger, they would be in proportion?

i dont remember an exact rule for leg proportion, but calves should at least be as big as your arms... i would concentrate on those a good bit, big calves can compensate for small thighs in a way, big thighs make your calves only look smaller.

[GregElder]

i don't know if anybody else mentioned it because i didn't read everything... but with how big your arms and shoulders look it looks like you could use some more size in your traps

just my thoughts

Appreciate the compliment, I'm slowly building the Traps up too. They've been growing the past few months from my Deadlifts and Shrugs, and I think they're almost there---I just am not good at showing them off yet.

i dont remember an exact rule for leg proportion, but calves should at least be as big as your arms... i would concentrate on those a good bit, big calves can compensate for small thighs in a way, big thighs make your calves only look smaller.

Alright, sounds good. I checked again yesterday and my calves are up to 16.25" cold and my arms are 17.5" cold, so they're a little closer than they were. The DoggCrap Calf training is working, I think! I'm working more on the upper part of my calves(soleus?) versus the "V" at the bottom---I think the "V" (Gastronemus??) is pretty good already---what do you guys think---

Here's a pic of my calves and another that shows Hamstrings, since I didn't post a good pic of either before.

Thanks again for the feedback.

[KarateChris]

Your soleus is pretty good, but your gastrocnemius needs to be bigger. Your quad/hamstring tie is is nice and you look good from the side; it's just from the front that you have a problem with thickness. Your legs are very lean for this being the offseason. They should be nasty shredded by the time your contest roles around.

Also, I was DC training for a while, and I know your pain on the calf exercises. My calves are now actually bigger than my arms... I need to catch up my arms with my calves (even though my calves are still tiny at a little over 16-16.5 inches).

[GregElder]

Your soleus is pretty good, but your gastrocnemius needs to be bigger. Your quad/hamstring tie is is nice and you look good from the side; it's just from the front that you have a problem with thickness. Your legs are very lean for this being the offseason. They should be nasty shredded by the time your contest roles around.

Also, I was DC training for a while, and I know your pain on the calf exercises. My calves are now actually bigger than my arms... I need to catch up my arms with my calves (even though my calves are still tiny at a little over 16-16.5 inches).

Chris,

Thanks for the feedback---and the compliments. I agree with you on the front view being the problem---do you think Squats will help me the most for the front thickness??? What other exercises? That pic was at the END of my cut, by the way. I don't have a problem getting my legs lean, though.

Yes, the DC training is hard! How many sets are you doing???

Chris, here's another Side Chest---is this better? (shoulder rolled back vs. the original) Thanks for the comments. this pic was taken 8/27/04 at the end of my cut. EDIT: I know my foot placement sucks during this photo, I should have the front foot right in front of hte back foot.

[KarateChris]

Definitely better but make sure to turn your wrist with palms up on the arm that you're showing to the camera. Don't hold it in a hammer position.

For legs, squats are awesome, definitely, but have you ever tried Front Squats? I feel those a LOT more in my quads. Squats are still king, but you may like front squats (and respond better) better.

For the side chest, look at my hand placement here:

[jjh04f]

Remember to work the minor muscles like traps(you have some), calves, forearms, rear delts and side delts. Like the arms, big. And remember the all important abs. Oh and strict adhereance to your diet is crucial. That will make or break you. Bump what he said. Work on posing when you have time.

[dumb_as_dirt]

Looks great, Greg! I'm particularly impressed with your arms and shoulders.

Thanks for the inspiration, and good luck!

[GregElder]

Definitely better but make sure to turn your wrist with palms up on the arm that you're showing to the camera. Don't hold it in a hammer position.

For legs, squats are awesome, definitely, but have you ever tried Front Squats? I feel those a LOT more in my quads. Squats are still king, but you may like front squats (and respond better) better.

For the side chest, look at my hand placement here:

Ok, I understand the pose now.

I tried Front Squats yesterday and my quads are fried. First, I did 4 working sets of Regular Squats, then I did front Squats. I'm definitely going to keep these in my routine. I tried them on the Smith Machine and the Power Rack---the Smith Machine felts better---I could keep the bar out over my quads and not worry about balancing the bar.

Thanks, Chris!

[GregElder]

Remember to work the minor muscles like traps(you have some), calves, forearms, rear delts and side delts. Like the arms, big. And remember the all important abs. Oh and strict adhereance to your diet is crucial. That will make or break you. Bump what he said. Work on posing when you have time.

Yeah, I work everything, I understand what you mean, though. Yeah, I've learned the fact that diet is critical in the past year---I heard that for years, but now I know it's true.

Thanks

[GregElder]

Looks great, Greg! I'm particularly impressed with your arms and shoulders.

Thanks for the inspiration, and good luck!

I appreciate it, good luck to you!