Muscle gain on calorie deficit..

[Meathooks]

If I am burning more calories than I eat, could I actually get bigger through muscle gain. Purely hypothetical.

I think this question is probably a basic one, however I have not gotten an answer as to WHY you could or could not do this. Anyone know ??

I'm sure it would be very difficult if at all possible however....

[Metroid]

If I am burning more calories than I eat, could I actually get bigger through muscle gain. Purely hypothetical.

I think this question is probably a basic one, however I have not gotten an answer as to WHY you could or could not do this. Anyone know ??

I'm sure it would be very difficult if at all possible however....

Well, if you eat less calories then you should be dieting right now i guess? Anyways read this.

5. High Protein - Keeping your metabolism going and burning fat efficiently while retaining as much muscle as possible is dependent on taking in a high amount of protein. Your body will burn carbohydrates first, because this is your main energy source. Once it runs out of carbohydrates, it will begin to use your fat as fuel. You don't want your body dipping into your hard-earned muscle to use as energy. It is for this reason that it is of prime importance that you eat as much protein as possible while losing the weight. It will keep your metabolism moving! This is why I recommended the Pure Protein bar in key 1 above. It is low in carbohydrates and high in protein content

So no, you can't get bigger when eating less calories then your body needs. Bulking is for getting big!

[epote]

well i see no biologycal reason for this...

the body WILL consume the apropriate amount of energy,so if you have adequate protein i see no reason whatsoever not to do proteinosynthesis.

practicaly, if you have a balanced diet with a mild calorie deficit it is possible to gain muscle mass. I am cutting on an average of 2200kcal/day i have visible resaults but i am loosing NO weigh, im am 79-80 kg (at a height of 1.80) for the past two months yet ive droped from 12% to 9.5% body fat

[A.FreeRadical]

If I am burning more calories than I eat, could I actually get bigger through muscle gain. Purely hypothetical.

To build muscle you need energy to workout, you need protein to repair and create new muscle fibers and you need to be doing progressively heavier lifts to force your muscle to adapt. You also need plenty of rest.

It can be done, but it can't be too much of a calorie deficit (you must include all of your calorie expenditures, including you time in the gym and cardio, in you calculation.) I would guess 10-20% deficit would be about right. This is not easy to do. It doesn't take much to derail your plan.

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[bigpump23]

I dont know if it's as much as you gaining muscle as it is you looking bigger. when you cut up you lose fat, so your able to see more muscle them you were before, that in turn makes you look bigger

that's why many people that go for the "Men's Fitness" look as opposed to the "flex" or bodyubilding look do it. The whole theory, and people get flamed all the time when they says " i want to build muscle and loss fat" In a bodybuilding sense you can not do that, as you need to gorge yourself with calories to get that huge size. In a "men's fitness" look you can as you cut up you look bigger and it is entirelly possible to gain muscle while losing fat

[spacemanvt]

i have noticed as my calorie deficent diet has been going on, i am having a harder time with making gains as far as my weight lifting and am even having a hard time maintaining the levels i am at now... i dont really mind though, i just want to get cut, i dont care so much about muscles right now

[A.FreeRadical]

i have noticed as my calorie deficent diet has been going on, i am having a harder time with making gains as far as my weight lifting and am even having a hard time maintaining the levels i am at now... i dont really mind though, i just want to get cut, i dont care so much about muscles right now

Are you getting "cut"? Sounds to me like your metabolism is slowing down to protect your body fat. When it does this, you could be losing muscle and increasing body fat%. You should be gaining strength if you are working out properly. If you gain strength... oh yeah, read my sig.

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[Cherokee]

Hi,

The simple answer is "no". However, there is a way to accomplish what you are looking to do. Pick the method that will work for you;

1. Gain muscle - sounds kinda stupid BUT the more muscle you have the more calories you burn at rest. This does NOT mean you have to bulk. Eat clean and slightly above maintenance calories. You will add muscle. Later, create a calorie deficit and gradually lose weight.

2. Diet and resign yourself to the fact that you will lose some muscle. Set a goal and lose NO more then 2lbs/week. After you attain your goal, THEN begin to build muscle on your new lean body.

I see a number of folks who attempt to build muscle while dieting. This ends up with the person NEITHER gaining muscle nor effectively losing weight. In the end they give up as they simply spin their wheels and accomplish nothing.

Cherokee

[spacemanvt]

Are you getting "cut"? Sounds to me like your metabolism is slowing down to protect your body fat. When it does this, you could be losing muscle and increasing body fat%. You should be gaining strength if you are working out properly. If you gain strength... oh yeah, read my sig.

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i think i may have been eating too little but as of right now I am too lazy to start calorie counting and stuff so i am going to continue clean eating and eating 5 meals with small portions etc etc and see how that goes for awhile

[impossible702]

[QUOTE=bigpump23]I dont know if it's as much as you gaining muscle as it is you looking bigger. when you cut up you lose fat, so your able to see more muscle them you were before, that in turn makes you look bigger

that's why many people that go for the "Men's Fitness" look as opposed to the "flex" or bodyubilding look do it. The whole theory, and people get flamed all the time when they says " i want to build muscle and loss fat" In a bodybuilding sense you can not do that, as you need to gorge yourself with calories to get that huge size. In a "men's fitness" look you can as you cut up you look bigger and it is entirelly possible to gain muscle while losing fat[/QUOT



great post!

[skelooth]

I just want to post my own person experience here. You can flame me or call me a liar if you want, but this is the truth that I saw happen to ME.

Before reading this, keep in mind that I *used* to be fairly buff, and I'd probably accredit most of this to muscle memory.

Anywah, When I first started eating right and excersizing again (see sig), I was REALLY, REALLY out of shape. Probaly one of the worst shapes of my life, I my arms were mostly fat, with barely any definition whatsoever even when flexed. I started dieting the wrong way, I was eating around 1500 kcal a day on a purely vegan diet (high carb, moderate protein, very little fat).

Then I came here (again, see sig for date). I switched to a high protein, moderate carb/fat diet up to around 2000kcal..... I have made MASSIVE muscle gains AND fat loss since then. In fact, there was one week where even put on a healthy pound! In that short amount of time, my arms are almost solid again, and there's already definition w/o flexing. I've been doing 2-3 full body work outs each week, and just today I have made my 3rd noticeable strength gain.

Again, this probably has a LOT to do with muscle memory, and genetic disposition, but I DID gain muscle while on a pretty steep calorie deficit. It's also important to note that the muscle/strength gains have slowed considerabley, and are probably about to stop

p.s.
wtf? I can't type for **** after I lift.... I think my fingers lose coordination from gripping the lat/dum/barbells

[velikimajmun]

I just want to post my own person experience here. You can flame me or call me a liar if you want, but this is the truth that I saw happen to ME.

Before reading this, keep in mind that I *used* to be fairly buff, and I'd probably accredit most of this to muscle memory.

Anywah, When I first started eating right and excersizing again (see sig), I was REALLY, REALLY out of shape. Probaly one of the worst shapes of my life, I my arms were mostly fat, with barely any definition whatsoever even when flexed. I started dieting the wrong way, I was eating around 1500 kcal a day on a purely vegan diet (high carb, moderate protein, very little fat).

Then I came here (again, see sig for date). I switched to a high protein, moderate carb/fat diet up to around 2000kcal..... I have made MASSIVE muscle gains AND fat loss since then. In fact, there was one week where even put on a healthy pound! In that short amount of time, my arms are almost solid again, and there's already definition w/o flexing. I've been doing 2-3 full body work outs each week, and just today I have made my 3rd noticeable strength gain.

The rules (standard BB dogma really) don't really apply to a a non-trained individual especially an obese one ( I mean no offense). Its long been known in the literature that an obese individual can restrict calories without losing LBM even without training. But as you said your stregth gains are coming to an end. You may want to decrease your calorie deficeit to buffer this effect. In other words the leaner you get the less of a calorie deficeit you can afford at the expense of lean body mass. Also its been shown in a untrained populus that LBM can be increased without additional caloric consumption but once you have trained for some time the rules change

[skelooth]

Yeah dude, I know, and no offense is taken. I willfully admit to being obese, because it will make it that much sweeter when I can say I'm not

I was just stating, that depending on your genetic disposition, and current body compisition (ie, obese and untrained as you put it), you CAN gain muscle and lose fat... and the process can continue for a good length of time before coming to a halt.

[Meathooks]

Ok. I guess the answer is "Yemabyno" . Ha
I am definitly not in deficeit. 4000 cals to put on some serious mass. 1000 mg test isn't hurting matters. I'm just trying to get a plan of action to start burning in Nov. I don't like the Idea that Nov. will be all the mass I will gain until summer so.. I think the key is slight calorie deficit, from what I gather.

Thanks

175 lbs- Sept. 4th -10%
186 lbs- Oct. 17th -12+%

[spacemanvt]

for me... its hard to figure when im eating enough or not without really calorie counting... my mom usually cooks dinners and sometimes lunch for me, plus i am never sure how to caloire count a sandwhich or something...

i am currently losing fat/weight at a good rate right now and will wait until the progress slows down before i really look into it i guess.

[A.FreeRadical]

Ok. I guess the answer is "Yemabyno" . Ha
I am definitly not in deficeit. 4000 cals to put on some serious mass. 1000 mg test isn't hurting matters. I'm just trying to get a plan of action to start burning in Nov. I don't like the Idea that Nov. will be all the mass I will gain until summer so.. I think the key is slight calorie deficit, from what I gather.

Thanks

175 lbs- Sept. 4th -10%
186 lbs- Oct. 17th -12+%

Like I said, 10-20%. I suggest you lift heavy for strength, the muscle will follow.

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[funkysmurf]

Hi,
... 1. Gain muscle - sounds kinda stupid BUT the more muscle you have the more calories you burn at rest. This does NOT mean you have to bulk. Eat clean and slightly above maintenance calories. You will add muscle. Later, create a calorie deficit and gradually lose weight.

Theoretically (in this case) you will eventually be in caloric deficit without changing your diet - Maintaining muscle tissue takes four to five times more calories than maintaining fat tissue. A good way to start, especially if taking up exercise and drastically changing diet seems a bit too much to handle.

cheers

[bigpump23]

[QUOTE=impossible702]

I dont know if it's as much as you gaining muscle as it is you looking bigger. when you cut up you lose fat, so your able to see more muscle them you were before, that in turn makes you look bigger

that's why many people that go for the "Men's Fitness" look as opposed to the "flex" or bodyubilding look do it. The whole theory, and people get flamed all the time when they says " i want to build muscle and loss fat" In a bodybuilding sense you can not do that, as you need to gorge yourself with calories to get that huge size. In a "men's fitness" look you can as you cut up you look bigger and it is entirelly possible to gain muscle while losing fat[/QUOT



great post!

no doubt LOL

[Justin Ryan]

The simple answer is "no". .... I see a number of folks who attempt to build muscle while dieting. This ends up with the person NEITHER gaining muscle nor effectively losing weight. In the end they give up as they simply spin their wheels and accomplish nothing.

Actually, moderate dieting/weight loss does not affect muscle gain in either average or obese individuals.

Simply, your body has rank-ordered priorities to its biological processes. For example, your brain is at the top of those priorities, and your body will even devour your other internal organs (even weaken your heart) if necessary to feed the brain.

When it comes to muscle building, the need to heal the 'injury' you inflict upon your muscles during a proper weightlifting session is not unlike the healing priorities associated with surgery or other wounds. Luckily, this priority outranks the retention of body fat.

Body fat is near the top of the list of what is burned to fuel other biological processes—that's its purpose.

Now, shocking your body with severe caloric restriction plays havoc with these priorities and to protect the brain for as long as possible all other priorities are rescinded.

An average build person can probably afford to lose no more than 1 pound a week (2 to 3 lbs a week for obese individuals) without impacting muscle gain from weightlifting. That is, as long as your body doesn't think it has to prepare itself for famine it will happily dip into fat reserves to fuel metabolic processes including those involved in muscle mass gain. To ensure healthy processes, a healthy active lifestyle (including some cardio) sould be part of your regular routine... just make sure your caloric deficit is no more than about 500 calories a day in average build persons, and you should be consuming at least 1900 to 2200 calories or so daily (again, for average healthy build persons) at the same time. This means that you may need increase your overall activity level significantly so that a 2,000 calorie diet can result in a 500 calorie deficit (i.e., you need to burn 2500 or so).