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  1. #1
    Watch the triangle brah JAGERBOY's Avatar
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    How did God create light before he created the sun

    Honest question here...

    In Genesis, the first thing God does is look at the Earth , and he sees that its dark. So on the first "day" he says "Let there be light!". He seperates light being the day, and darkness being the night. Now, there is a problem here. The only reason we have "night" on Earth is because the earth rotates and the sun isn't viewable from certain parts of the globe for several hours. But its not until day 4 that God creates the sun. So how did he even have the concept of night and day if the sun wasn't even created yet? Yes, I know hes "all knowing", but the bible clearly states that before the sun was created, there was night and day.

    Also, how did he seperate night and day on "days" 1-3 if there was no sun yet? Again, we only have days because of the sun. So how long of a time frame was day 1-3? If you want to use that as an argument for old earth creationism, it really doesn't work. You are asserting that you would know what a day is to God. The bible is using the human concept of day and night to describe how long it took God.

    Source: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...r=1&version=50
    "If the data is overwhelmingly in favor of evolution, to deny that reality will make us a cult -- some odd group that is not really interacting with the world"- Evangelical Bible scholar Bruce Waltke
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  2. #2
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    i guess the bible aint completely literal

    maybe it has a deeper meaning we don't know yet, and all the people who look at the bible literally are wrong, and the people who look at it trying to find the deeper meaning are just lookin' for answers
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  3. #3
    Registered User sup_builder2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by karzma View Post
    i guess the bible aint completely literal

    maybe it has a deeper meaning we don't know yet, and all the people who look at the bible literally are wrong, and the people who look at it trying to find the deeper meaning are just lookin' for answers
    People shouldn't be taking "Accept Jesus as your saviour" literally. They should be looking for a deeper meaning.
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  4. #4
    Watch the triangle brah JAGERBOY's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sup_builder2 View Post
    People shouldn't be taking "Accept Jesus as your saviour" literally. They should be looking for a deeper meaning.
    HA, Exactly. Once you start with "its not literal" nonsense then you are compromising your entire religion and belief system. Its just downright intellectually dishonest. Reps.
    "If the data is overwhelmingly in favor of evolution, to deny that reality will make us a cult -- some odd group that is not really interacting with the world"- Evangelical Bible scholar Bruce Waltke
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  5. #5
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    The Bible is great, I love it. I learned a lot from it. I read it from cover to end IV translation. Problem is, too many of the parts I read are meant to be taken as a metaphor. Like Eve coming from Adam's rib. Do people really believe that as literal?
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  6. #6
    Watch the triangle brah JAGERBOY's Avatar
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    Bump? Any bible scholars out there?
    "If the data is overwhelmingly in favor of evolution, to deny that reality will make us a cult -- some odd group that is not really interacting with the world"- Evangelical Bible scholar Bruce Waltke
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  7. #7
    King of the Manlets bigshayet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by swirl_journ View Post
    The Bible is great, I love it. I learned a lot from it. I read it from cover to end IV translation. Problem is, too many of the parts I read are meant to be taken as a metaphor. Like Eve coming from Adam's rib. Do people really believe that as literal?
    Some extreme christians do, I have friends that believe that this actually/literally happend. Same with Noah's Ark or Moses and the Red Sea.
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  8. #8
    Watch the triangle brah JAGERBOY's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigshayet View Post
    Some extreme christians do, I have friends that believe that this actually/literally happend. Same with Noah's Ark or Moses and the Red Sea.
    Well, again, if you dont believe it really happened, then I think you should question whether or not you really are a Christian. I dont see how you can call yourself one if you dont believe everything in the book. Again, your compromising the validity of EVERYTHING in the bible if you pick and choose whats literal.
    "If the data is overwhelmingly in favor of evolution, to deny that reality will make us a cult -- some odd group that is not really interacting with the world"- Evangelical Bible scholar Bruce Waltke
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  9. #9
    King of the Manlets bigshayet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JAGERBOY View Post
    Well, again, if you dont believe it really happened, then I think you should question whether or not you really are a Christian. I dont see how you can call yourself one if you dont believe everything in the book. Again, your compromising the validity of EVERYTHING in the bible if you pick and choose whats literal.
    Oh I don't, I'm an athiest, I'm just pointing it out that many people do take most...if not everything word for word from the bible.
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  10. #10
    Watch the triangle brah JAGERBOY's Avatar
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    Christians, please answer or you are admitting your holy book is severely flawed, which points to the fact that it is not inspired by an all knowing deity, but just man.
    "If the data is overwhelmingly in favor of evolution, to deny that reality will make us a cult -- some odd group that is not really interacting with the world"- Evangelical Bible scholar Bruce Waltke
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  11. #11
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    Obviously it takes some time to search for an apologetics answer as they can't form an opinion of their own. Sit tight.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by JAGERBOY View Post
    Honest question here...

    In Genesis, the first thing God does is look at the Earth , and he sees that its dark. So on the first "day" he says "Let there be light!". He seperates light being the day, and darkness being the night. Now, there is a problem here. The only reason we have "night" on Earth is because the earth rotates and the sun isn't viewable from certain parts of the globe for several hours. But its not until day 4 that God creates the sun. So how did he even have the concept of night and day if the sun wasn't even created yet? Yes, I know hes "all knowing", but the bible clearly states that before the sun was created, there was night and day.

    Also, how did he seperate night and day on "days" 1-3 if there was no sun yet? Again, we only have days because of the sun. So how long of a time frame was day 1-3? If you want to use that as an argument for old earth creationism, it really doesn't work. You are asserting that you would know what a day is to God. The bible is using the human concept of day and night to describe how long it took God.

    Source: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...r=1&version=50
    Maybe the light was the big bang

    Light can = energy you know. Doesnt ONLY have to be from the SUN.

    /thread
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  13. #13
    Watch the triangle brah JAGERBOY's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wanaBsedated View Post
    Maybe the light was the big bang

    Light can = energy you know. Doesnt ONLY have to be from the SUN.

    /thread
    No. Again, to have night and day, we have to have the sun, and most importantly a rotating world. Re-read your Genesis.

    And because Im curious, what other light sources are you referring to other than the obvious ones (moon, stars, man made, fire flys)?
    "If the data is overwhelmingly in favor of evolution, to deny that reality will make us a cult -- some odd group that is not really interacting with the world"- Evangelical Bible scholar Bruce Waltke
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  14. #14
    Registered User MonsterG8r's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JAGERBOY View Post
    No. Again, to have night and day, we have to have the sun, and most importantly a rotating world. Re-read your Genesis.

    And because Im curious, what other light sources are you referring to other than the obvious ones (moon, stars, man made, fire flys)?
    In Revelation Christ is the light. Many scholars believe Christ Himself was the light. Just a thought.
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    Originally Posted by bigshayet View Post
    Some extreme christians do, I have friends that believe that this actually/literally happend. Same with Noah's Ark or Moses and the Red Sea.
    They are pretty sure they found noahs ark the history channel had a special about it, it was intristing, There was a huge boat with the exact length given in the Bible on top of the mountain
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by JAGERBOY View Post
    Bump? Any bible scholars out there?
    Monsterg8er is correct. God is light. 1John 1 says "God is light and in him dwelleth no darkness at all." The Bible never said God "created light" he said "let there be light". God literally stepped into the darkness that was once our universe

    This is confirmed in Gen. when it says:

    "and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

    So Gods spirit was hovering over this dark place awaiting his moment to intervene.

    /thread
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    Originally Posted by MonsterG8r View Post
    In Revelation Christ is the light. Many scholars believe Christ Himself was the light. Just a thought.
    many believe that jesus was the sun god of the gnostic christian sect
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    Originally Posted by JAGERBOY View Post
    Well, again, if you dont believe it really happened, then I think you should question whether or not you really are a Christian. I dont see how you can call yourself one if you dont believe everything in the book. Again, your compromising the validity of EVERYTHING in the bible if you pick and choose whats literal.
    You got a point there.
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    JAGERBOY you are looking at it the wrong way.

    The Bible saying there was evening and morning after each day is used to close that period off and mark the beginning of the next time period. On the first day there is evening and morning... then the second day comes and so on.

    Notice at the beginning of Genesis 2 that the seventh day is not closed off with an evening and a morning, this means we are still in God's seventh day of rest from creation. This is also spoken of in other passages in the Bible and is only compatible with an old earth view.

    Also on the matter of the creation of the sun, the old earth view holds that the sun was of course created before the earth. Now of course the typical objection would come in that I'm being selective about what to literally believe etc... but this actually makes perfect sense in the hebrew language.

    In the passages of Genesis different ancient hebrew words are used to describe certain acts of creation for example the first line says God created the heavens and the earth and here the hebrew verb "bara" is used which literally means to create something brand new that did not exist before.

    Another word used in the genesis passages is "hiya" (not sure of spelling) which means to let something be, not that it was created but that it works itself out according to natural laws.

    This is used to describe the sun, which in english has been translated as being created, this is a bit of a mis-translation.

    Here is an article on the creation sequence if you want to read it,

    http://www.reasons.org/resources/apo...creatseq.shtml
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    Originally Posted by JAGERBOY View Post
    No. Again, to have night and day, we have to have the sun, and most importantly a rotating world. Re-read your Genesis.

    And because Im curious, what other light sources are you referring to other than the obvious ones (moon, stars, man made, fire flys)?
    Um WHO THE HELL NEEDS STARS TO HAVE LIGHT? Light comes Through various forms of expressing energy.. ala lightening. The sun produces light through a nuclear reaction producing a huge amount of energy, heat and light.. there are other ways to do that without a sun or a star.

    For all we know the bible may be referring to god himself producing some sort of illumination before he put the sun there.. who knows really? Like the guy above me said.. you really need to understand the hebrew to get an exact translation. Because english doesn't cut it for some of the finer details.
    Last edited by wanaBsedated; 07-02-2007 at 12:01 AM.
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    Originally Posted by wanaBsedated View Post
    you really need to understand the hebrew to get an exact translation.
    And even then, it can be a difficult book to understand. I'd liken it to writing a book explaining nuclear physics to a 3rd grader
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    Originally Posted by JAGERBOY View Post
    Christians, please answer or you are admitting your holy book is severely flawed, which points to the fact that it is not inspired by an all knowing deity, but just man.
    Anybody that believes in God, before even entering this thread, would be able to tell what a ridiculous thread this is based off of the title alone, "How did God do "X"".

    If you believe in an all eternal all powerful being that was never created, then I don't see why this is any problem whatsoever. The answer is: Because he's God. That's sounds like a silly answer to you, but that's basically the easiest answer, and it's the correct answer. Don't misunderstand, I'm not being smart/rude with you, but I want you for one moment to just consider the question that you asked.

    -You are asking how an all powerful Being did something.
    -You are asking how this Being created light before he created the sun, even though this very Being that you are referring to is the one who established the laws of our universe in the first place that make it so that the sun generates light.

    I think considering those two points above will answer your own question.
    ---
    Besides, even the ancient prophet that wrote the book of Genesis would know that the sun generates light. You don't have to be a 21st century astrologer to look up into the sky and see that the sun produces light. When you stare at it, it hurts your eyes, and when it sets, it becomes a lot darker, when it rises, it becomes a lot lighter. It's pretty self-evident to anybody that the sun produces light. So of course the person that wrote this knew that the sun generates light; but even so, they recorded it such as it is. Before the sun, there was light. This can be taken both literally and spiritually simultaneously.
    Last edited by Beatitude; 07-02-2007 at 12:27 AM.
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    And even then, it can be a difficult book to understand. I'd liken it to writing a book explaining nuclear physics to a 3rd grader
    Well supposedly the point of some of the finer details of the teachings are to seek and search.. mull over and learn. So that makes perfect sense.
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    Originally Posted by StrongInChrist View Post
    Monsterg8er is correct. God is light. 1John 1 says "God is light and in him dwelleth no darkness at all." The Bible never said God "created light" he said "let there be light". God literally stepped into the darkness that was once our universe

    This is confirmed in Gen. when it says:

    "and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

    So Gods spirit was hovering over this dark place awaiting his moment to intervene.

    /thread

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    Originally Posted by wanaBsedated View Post
    Um WHO THE HELL NEEDS STARS TO HAVE LIGHT? Light comes Through various forms of expressing energy.. ala lightening. The sun produces light through a nuclear reaction producing a huge amount of energy, heat and light.. there are other ways to do that without a sun or a star.

    For all we know the bible may be referring to god himself producing some sort of illumination before he put the sun there.. who knows really? Like the guy above me said.. you really need to understand the hebrew to get an exact translation. Because english doesn't cut it for some of the finer details.
    what, he switched on his desk lamp? can the hebrew really be THAT different?
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    Originally Posted by StrongInChrist View Post
    Monsterg8er is correct. God is light. 1John 1 says "God is light and in him dwelleth no darkness at all." The Bible never said God "created light" he said "let there be light". God literally stepped into the darkness that was once our universe

    This is confirmed in Gen. when it says:

    "and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

    So Gods spirit was hovering over this dark place awaiting his moment to intervene.

    /thread
    So God was dark, then he turned himself on for light then?
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    Originally Posted by Persecuted View Post
    JAGERBOY you are looking at it the wrong way.

    The Bible saying there was evening and morning after each day is used to close that period off and mark the beginning of the next time period. On the first day there is evening and morning... then the second day comes and so on.

    Notice at the beginning of Genesis 2 that the seventh day is not closed off with an evening and a morning, this means we are still in God's seventh day of rest from creation. This is also spoken of in other passages in the Bible and is only compatible with an old earth view.

    Also on the matter of the creation of the sun, the old earth view holds that the sun was of course created before the earth. Now of course the typical objection would come in that I'm being selective about what to literally believe etc... but this actually makes perfect sense in the hebrew language.

    In the passages of Genesis different ancient hebrew words are used to describe certain acts of creation for example the first line says God created the heavens and the earth and here the hebrew verb "bara" is used which literally means to create something brand new that did not exist before.

    Another word used in the genesis passages is "hiya" (not sure of spelling) which means to let something be, not that it was created but that it works itself out according to natural laws.

    This is used to describe the sun, which in english has been translated as being created, this is a bit of a mis-translation.

    Here is an article on the creation sequence if you want to read it,

    http://www.reasons.org/resources/apo...creatseq.shtml
    Whats the period? How long? Again, thats only one of the problems. The other problem is he said that he created night and day before he created the sun. The concept of night and day comes from the earth rotating and the sun being visible, or not visible during certain times. So without the sun there can be no night and day.

    Ill look at the link later.
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    Originally Posted by wanaBsedated View Post
    Um WHO THE HELL NEEDS STARS TO HAVE LIGHT? Light comes Through various forms of expressing energy.. ala lightening. The sun produces light through a nuclear reaction producing a huge amount of energy, heat and light.. there are other ways to do that without a sun or a star.

    For all we know the bible may be referring to god himself producing some sort of illumination before he put the sun there.. who knows really? Like the guy above me said.. you really need to understand the hebrew to get an exact translation. Because english doesn't cut it for some of the finer details.
    You still haven't given me an example of other light sources. Lightening would have been one of the obvious ones I was referring to. So did god produce a non stop lightning bolt that lit up the earth then? Gimme a break. And let me guess, you understand Hebrew right?
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