Very interesting PW carbs study

[Jimmy Smith]

IL-6 increases muscle insulin sensitivity only at superphysiological levels
Paige C. Geiger, Chad Hancock, David C. Wright, Dong-Ho Han, and John O. Holloszy
Division of Geriatrics and Nutritional Sciences, Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri

Exercise induces an increase in glucose transport in muscle. As the acute increase in glucose transport reverses, it is replaced by an increase in insulin sensitivity. Interleukin-6 (IL-6) increases with exercise and has been reported to activate AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK). Based on this information, we hypothesized that IL-6 would result in an increase in muscle insulin sensitivity. Rat epitrochlearis and soleus muscles were incubated with 120 ng/ml IL-6. Exposure to IL-6 induced a modest acute increase in glucose transport and was followed 3.5 h later by an increase in insulin sensitivity in epitrochlearis but not soleus muscles. IL-6 also brought about an increase in AMPK phosphorylation in epitrochlearis muscles. We conclude that exposure of fast-twitch muscle to 120 ng/ml IL-6 increases insulin sensitivity by activating AMPK. However, exposure of epitrochlearis muscles to 10 ng/ml IL-6, a concentration >100-fold higher than that attained in plasma during exercise, had no effect on glucose transport or insulin sensitivity. These findings provide evidence that the increases in glucose transport and insulin sensitivity induced by IL-6 are pharmacological rather than physiological effects. We interpret our results as evidence that the increase in IL-6 during exercise does not play a role in the exercise-induced increases in muscle glucose uptake and insulin sensitivity.

[Rodzilla]

so what do you recommend sir?

[Jimmy Smith]

so what do you recommend sir?

What I'm saying is that we're learning more and more about insulin and its effects especially around the workout time. I agree with Chuck's recommendation on no post workout fast carbs.

[BluSilver]

What I'm saying is that we're learning more and more about insulin and its effects especially around the workout time. I agree with Chuck's recommendation on no post workout fast carbs.

That study doesn't say that fast PWO carbs are bad. It says that physiological levels of IL-6 don't increase insulin sensitivity, which isn't really a problem PWO anyways.

[BluSilver]

I'll have to brush up on AMPk but acute insulin sensitivity wasn't ever the big deal IIRC. Think of long-term adaptations to percieved ATP shortage.

[Jimmy Smith]

That study doesn't say that fast PWO carbs are bad. It says that physiological levels of IL-6 don't increase insulin sensitivity, which isn't really a problem PWO anyways.

Yeah but we need the inflammatory response that we get from IL-6 to grow. The main reaons for me posting this was to show that we're learning more and more about insulin senssitivity by the days and that things may not be as cut and dry as we think PW.

[ChuckRD]

Again, when glycogen RESYNTHESIS is a MUST, PWO Carb:Pro is EXTREMELY important for that athlete to be ready the next day to perform at same intensity AGAIN. As for physique and bodybuilding, I do not believe they burn enough glycogen in relation to possible insulin activity/BF reduction.

[Scivation]

Again, when glycogen RESYNTHESIS is a MUST, PWO Carb:Pro is EXTREMELY important for that athlete to be ready the next day to perform at same intensity AGAIN. As for physique and bodybuilding, I do not believe they burn enough glycogen in relation to possible insulin activity/BF reduction.

Post Workout Twinkies--YEAH BUDDY!

Funny story about Twinkies. I got kicked out of Jewish preschool because my mom, a rebel, sent me to school with a Twinkie in my lunch. Twinkies, at least at the time, were NOT kosher. The school called my mom and said, "Please never send your son to school with non-kosher items never again." My mom then blasted back and said, "What kind of Nazis are you?! How can a kid go his whole life without a FU##ing Twinkie?!"

And that was the end of my religious education.

[Beast]

Post Workout Twinkies--YEAH BUDDY!

Funny story about Twinkies. I got kicked out of Jewish preschool because my mom, a rebel, sent me to school with a Twinkie in my lunch. Twinkies, at least at the time, were NOT kosher. The school called my mom and said, "Please never send your son to school with non-kosher items never again." My mom then blasted back and said, "What kind of Nazis are you?! How can a kid go his whole life without a FU##ing Twinkie?!"

And that was the end of my religious education.

LMAO, that was awesome!

[Scivation]

LMAO, that was awesome!

My mom is hardcore. She was one hell of a soldier in the Israeli army as well.

She got two-years probation once for knocking out the President of my Little League.

[Jimmy Smith]

Again, when glycogen RESYNTHESIS is a MUST, PWO Carb:Pro is EXTREMELY important for that athlete to be ready the next day to perform at same intensity AGAIN. As for physique and bodybuilding, I do not believe they burn enough glycogen in relation to possible insulin activity/BF reduction.

Exactly Chuck, that was my reason for posting this study. Insulin response isn't as cut and dry as "if we train we need to use carbs PWO". Things aren't so cut and dry and we need to keep an open mind.

[TexAss]

Interesting information.

I'm on a very low carb cut and have been surprised at my energy levels without them, even in the gym.

It is making me rethink some things indeed.

[BluSilver]

Ah, my bad for starting **** then

[Scivation]

Ah, my bad for starting **** then

As your punishment, no carbs for a month young man!

[LiL USMC BBer]

I completely disagree.. I added like 900LB's to my bench press and gained like 65 of solid muslce mass to my bicepts using celltech/nitrotech in the morning and postworkout!

[ChuckRD]

Interesting information.

I'm on a very low carb cut and have been surprised at my energy levels without them, even in the gym.

It is making me rethink some things indeed.

IMO, it is relative to energy burned/Intensity during training and the ability/desire to train the same way again the next day or get 2-3 days rest on those body parts. Many "physique" weight lifters train so the "trained" body parts get 2-3 days rest at least before being hit again. AGAIN, JMO.

[ChuckRD]

I completely disagree.. I added like 900LB's to my bench press and gained like 65 of solid muslce mass to my bicepts using celltech/nitrotech in the morning and postworkout!

That is VERY VERY VERY impressive......some of us are not as fortunate to use such products.

[LiL USMC BBer]

lol I guess I got some awesome genes then huh?



Disclaimer: For those of you that weren't issued a sensible level of common sense/intellegence at birth.. I was joking about the celltech comment.