Was wondering if I could get some help. Upper body and mid section are coming along great with training. They've responded REALLY well. Looking for advise on quad training. I want to really define the quads and calves and get bigger at the same time. I get differing advice from gym pals and for quite some time I've been flip flopping. Trying blasting lots of weight and doing lots of cardio then not so much weight, lots of reps and lots of cardio. Aaaaaa!!!! I've also tried cutting gel. My BF% right now is 11% and it's all in my butt and legs. Seems like I'm running in circles. Can you help? At some point I'd like to compete but my workout for legs is at a stand still.
Thanks in advance.
El
the best advice i've got regarding this same thing was to add lunges (various forms) and plenty of stretching (during and after the workout) and it worked. and i actually got this advice from a girl who had fantastic leg development.............mmmmmmm!!!!i had plenty of size from squats,front squats & leg press then adding these really helped with shape and definition.Richie
hey Telly,i just noticed that you're from Sydney. if you've been around a while you might know the girl i mean.her name is Leisa Campbell. she won the NABBA Miss Universe & Miss World in 1988.fantastic legs!!Richie
I haven't been around that long Ritchie. I was late teens in 1988. Does she go by a different surname now?
I'm a big believer that detail like separation and cuts is largely a genetic trait, although i do agree that lunges are a great exercise for working the outside of the quads and the hams.
Male or female you can't go past squats. If you don't get separated legs from squats, then i really think it's genetics. Some people have thick blocky type quads that add muscle quite easily but have trouble getting that separation.
Monday and Friday: 3 to 4 sets of 12 lunges
5 sets of 15 smith machine squats 25lb weights on either side
140lb abductor machine 4 sets 15
130lb adductor machine 4 sets 12
Leg curls 4 sets 60lbs
One leg calf raises 75 continuous reps 4 second stretches on up and down
Leg extensions 60 lbs 4 sets 15
45 mins cardio either stairs or running on stepper machine level 5
I don't see a lot of other people doing the same workout as myself to the same intensity. Why would it not be working?
Ellimae100,you're probably overtraining.just do the squats (alternate smith machine with free squats with a bar),lunges,leg curls (maybe throw in a couple of sets of straight leg deadlifts here if you don't have any back injuries as they are excellent for bringing out detail)then calves and your cardio but i think 45 minutes is a bit too long. maybe 30 tops after legs. i'm puffed out just reading your workout.maybe cut back to once a week to as it takes your body quite a bit to recover from a leg workout.personally i do abs with legs and rarely do cardio on leg days.on your cardio days (stairs) also do some flexing and stretching for ALL your leg muscles (quads.hammies & calves) spend 20 or 30 minutes doing it and if your diet is right you should get defination from this. you can try this if you want and i hope it works for you.Richie
I agree with Ritchie. You should give your legs a blast once a week.
Give this a try:
Leg Extensions x 4 (2 x 20, 2 x 15, just to warm your legs up)
Squats x 4
Lunges x 3
Leg Curls x 3
Stiff leg deadlifts x 3
Seated Calf Raises x 3
Standing calf raises x 3
I'm not a big fan of smith machine squats. Free squats will build more musculature through your whole leg than smith machine.
The abductor machine is not real flash in my opinion. If you're doing the above exercises, you will hit every muscle in your legs, including the inside thigh. I think if you really want to do direct inside leg work, side lunges are better than abductor machines.
Just place less reliance on machines and more on free weights, and i think you will notice a big difference.
hey Elliemae,in 6 months (or less) can you post a before & after of your legs..............upper body to if you want but i think if you stick to this in 6 months you'll want the whole world to see what your legs look like anyway.how can you fail with top advice like this from a couple of Aussies.LOL.Richie
Thank you guys. I'm working up my new routine now. Should be starting tomorrow. I'll let you know in a few months how things are going. Really appreciate the advise.
Take care,
El
Good luck elimae. Let us know how your getting on.
By the way, don't go overboard on the cardio, because too much and you will be eating into your muscle. Let your diet be your primary means of controlling bodyfat, not cardio.
Thanks again,
It's going to be funny cutting cardio to 30 mins. 5 days of 45mins for 2 years. Also, with this workout it's going to cut training time to about an hour instead of 2 on leg days. Decided still to work legs twice a week just cut the intensity level down a bit and do more of what you suggested. Also, going to bump up on abs and incorporate into leg day. We'll see how that goes. Here's a pic to show you where I'm at at this point. Hope it's not too dark on transmission. Suggestions are appreciated. Hoping to compete in a year. It's really exciting! I love working out! I'm 5'9 152lbs now. When I started this I was 200lbs and 25%BF. Yeeehaaaw!
Thanks so much again for your help.
Last edited by Elliemae100; 07-21-2002 at 08:25 PM.
Elliemae,i think you've acheived "most" womens goals as you are. my God,you look fantastic. if you do legs twice a week then maybe do cardio on a separate day.also don't do the same exercises for both workouts. you could do squats & lunges for your first workout then leg extensions (triple drops) & hacks the next.judging from your current workout you're obviously into pain (LOL) so just blast these 2 exercises with everything you've got. you'll probably walk away from the Gym feeling guilty because you haven't done "the usual" but we all know that it's outside the Gym where the results happen....................don't we?? legs is half your body, remember and requires the most amount of energy output so give your poor old nervous system a rest and if you start seeing better definition and shape then you know you're doing something right. stretching really brought out definition for me.stretch your quads between sets and between sets lying leg curls for hammies flex them like doing single leg curls with no weight but keep your knee back and just do the top half of the curl. this will keep the blood in the area and keep the pump there.good luck and thanks for the pic. you should be proud of the goals you've acheived,you look great.Richie
You look great Ellimae. I can see what you're saying. There is as much potential there as i've seen on a girl. Narrow hips and waist, wide shoulders and naturally solid build.
I won't discourage you on training your legs twice a week, but just be aware of overtraining. I agree with Ritchie, don't do cardio on the days you train legs.
Your legs are looking good, all you have to do is build more muscle and the cuts will come.
Feel free to PM me anytime if you have any questions, and keep us posted on your progress.
Thanks again you guys, I'm not feeling so almost hopeless anymore. Haven't gotten this training advise before. The PT's at the gym have always said "Do more, do more. You've got big legs you really need to blast them." Think that helped in the beginning but I think the plateau stage has hit and they weren't going to go any further with that training.
Thanks for the boost to the ego also (smile).
Take it easy,
El
The same thing aggrevates me about personal trainers. Many personal trainers are well read, and possess all the qualifications in the world, but they also look like they've never lifted a weight before.
Recuperation and rest is the single most neglected aspect of the sport.
I'm built a lot like you, and upperbody has always been ahead of legs for me.
First, I've learned that legs just take time. I've been on a concentrated leg program for more than a year now. First off, I had to add body weight. I needed 3 or 4 lean pounds to get my legs up to where I needed them. I do this by cycling weight on...mostly by reducing cardio for two or three weeks, and then hitting it hard again.
Legs definitely require heavy weight work. I cycle this also in four or five week blocks. Working up volume for two or three weeks, and then two weeks of shorter sets 8 to 10 as heavy as I can go.
My leg workouts usually consist of Free weight squats, walking lunges with as much weight as I can, SLDL, leg extensions, leg curls, leg presses. These are the mainstays of my workouts, although occasionally I will do variations such as sumo squats, smith machine lunges on a step, step up on box with weight, and I work the leg presses with different weights and rep schemes.
I have found that I often hit plateaus with legs, this is when I will back off for a couple of weeks, and do real high volume, sometimes sets of 50 or 60 with 60%. Difficult, but effective for reaching that next level.
Hi everybody,
Here's an update. Not sure whether I'm doing something wrong or not. Not much happening. Monday started taking ECA Stack to maybe aid in fat loss. Here's a pic to show you results. As you can see, not much change. Did add 1/2 inch to my arms. (I know I'm still really little (smile)) 12 1/2 " arms. Legs have increased size wise from 22 3/4 to 24. Just not much more definition. Also, noticed increase in waist size. I'm thinking, because it's so difficult it seems to get the definition, could I change the routine again and include legs (just squats, lunges and leg extensions) every day to blast them? What do you think?
Thank you in advance.
Me
Last edited by Elliemae100; 07-18-2002 at 10:23 AM.
My quad size came with lifting heavier weights. Your workout looks difficult, but looks to be more of a leaning workout. (Except for the innies & outies! -- that's pretty heavyf or those.) Leg presses, extension, squats & lunges have done the trick for me. I leg press between 500 - 700 lbs, extensions 60 - 90 lbs., lunges holding dumbells -- work my way up to 20lb dumbells & squat starting with 140lbs & work my way up in 5 sets to about 185 lbs. It took a while to get to that point but that definitely put some quad size on me because people began complimenting my sweep -- I didn't know what they were talking about at first. Anyway, I'm 5'4" & 120lbs. Lately, I haven't wanted any more quad size, so I most stick to somewhat lighter weights & higher reps. Oh, and I forgot to say, you might want to throw in some straight leg deadlifts for the hamstrings -- those get me every time.
By the way, I certainly wasn't insulting your workout. I personally think the higher rep workouts are more difficult to do. That routine definitely helps to lower bodyfat. You look great!
Last edited by Hibiscus09; 07-18-2002 at 02:57 PM.
Hibiscus:
Thank you for the compliment. You sound pretty accomplished. Great job with the weights. That's some heavy loads your doing. Could you send me or post a pic of yourself. I'm not trying to really build up right now. My legs don't seem to have a problem of gaining size. It's the definition part. As you can tell from the pic's I'm a pretty big girl just naturally. Since changing my routine at the beginning of June I've gained almost 2" in my thigh size. I bought a size larger pant size at the end of June and I'm almost out of those. At this rate I'll go broke if I keep gaining size. The other thing I'm afraid of is the disproportioned amazon woman look. Legs that are too big for the rest of the body. Anyway, send me a pic of yourself. I like to look at others and see what I can work on for myself.
Thanks for your reply.
Me
Ellie, sorry, I should have paid closer attention that you were looking to define, not to build. I was thinking, you had pretty good size anyway. My quads are 121 1/2", but at 5'4" that's big enough for me! Definition can be much more difficult to achieve. I, too, have to get pretty lean for that to happen.
I'm off to Hawaii the day after tomorrow -- my husband won a trip! When I get back, I'll look through my pix for something to post.
You should do a competition. That would lean you out plenty & you'd get all the definition you're looking for. 11% is pretty lean anyway & it probably isn't too healthy to shoot for much lower than that unless your competing. My bodyfat hangs around 4 to 5 % higher than yours & after two children, I'd definitely say it's all hanging out on my hips & thighs. You seem from the picture to have great symmetry -- I bet you would have success in a competition.
Last edited by Hibiscus09; 07-18-2002 at 06:32 PM.
Thank you for the nice words. I'll look forward to a pic either posted or in my e-mail from you. I too have two kids but 10 years apart. It was easier to get back to pre-baby weight. Gained 52lbs with the first and 78lbs with the 2nd.
Have a great time on your trip. Sounds like a lot of fun and the price of it......awesome!
Take care and thanks again.
Me
Originally posted by Elliemae100 Hi everybody,
Here's an update. Not sure whether I'm doing something wrong or not. Not much happening. Monday started taking ECA Stack to maybe aid in fat loss. Here's a pic to show you results. As you can see, not much change. Did add 1/2 inch to my arms. (I know I'm still really little (smile)) 12 1/2 " arms. Legs have increased size wise from 22 3/4 to 24. Just not much more definition. Also, noticed increase in waist size. I'm thinking, because it's so difficult it seems to get the definition, could I change the routine again and include legs (just squats, lunges and leg extensions) every day to blast them? What do you think?
Thank you in advance.
Me
hey Ellie, you may not notice anything happening but that might not be due to anything you're doing in your training & diet. one thing with weight training is that you must be VERY patient when looking for results which is the main reason people throw in the towel after a few months when they don't see any change. and if you've been training for a few years then you may have to wait longer. you said you started taking an E.C.A. (which one?) recently so give that time to work and see if you notice anything different happening. don't change too much at once or you might not know what it is that's getting you the results. if you're trying to get definition then you'll probably have to lower your carb intake. an E.C.A. will help as they seem to reduce MY craving for carbs and that is half the battle over with. diet is the biggest problem,not the actual training so maybe increase your protein & GOOD fats and lower your carbs (oats,rice,pasta etc.) a bit and stick to the green vege's & salads,fish,egg whites, lean meat & a good low-carb protein powder. i wouldn't do legs every day though. try alternating heavy weights with lighter weights. you maybe just stale with your current leg routine.are you stretching? this adds DRAMATICALLY to shape & definition especially in the legs.trust me!! do HEAPS of stretching for quads & hammies. try and keep everything "fun" because that's when you'll start getting results. you'll get there. you obviously have the dedication so you'll just have to experiment a bit and it'll happen. you look great. i hope this helps a bit as i know the frustration of "wanting". Richie
i put everything in paragraphs and it still comes out all joined up (as above)!!...what am i doing wrong?i think it's obvious i'm no computer genius!!Richie
Hi Ritchie,
Glad to see you post again. Thank you again for the advice. The ECA Stack I got is from this website. The bottle says the patented ECA Stack Thermodynamic activator by NutraSport. The one with Ephedra and Caffeine (some are w/o ephedra). I'm taking the max dose of 2 caps 3x daily. I'm hanging in there. I'm not totally dissatisfied with what's happened so far. I'm going to try alternating like you said about light and heavy weights. I don't stretch much which I probably should it just seems that the stretching leaves my legs a bit limp for the next exercise. I love the tight/rock hard feeling my legs get after leg day. Should be a bit sore tomorrow. Did 6 sets of 15 lunges with 15lb weights today in between sets of lying leg curls. Then went straight on to burn the calves. Haven't done donkey calf raises in a while and put on 300lbs and blasted the crap out of them. Felt great after. Didn't do any cardio today. Usually do 30 mins of cardio on Fridays but my son came with me today (he's 13) and some shmo left a 110lb weight on the leg machine he wanted to use and he tried to get it off without help and dropped it on his toe. Man, he's black and blue. Oww!
Would you be able to give me a sample diet plan with I guess what you'd call "regular" foods (not a lot of powders and not into creatine or that sort of supplement.
My usual day consists of:
2 ECA tabs
Oatmeal with 1% milk and a protein shake (Myo-whey)
or 3 poached eggs with oat toast and shake
workout
meal replacement protein bar and yogurt
2 ECA tabs
lean deli ham or turkey breast w/mustard sandwhich (no mayo-yuck) w/swiss or a tuna sandwhich w/mustard
and some kind of fruit
protein shake and bar
2 ECA tabs
chicken is just about every night. I don't like red meat.
green beans, broccoli or light salad
protein shake and very low carb bar
Is it really bad?
Thanks in advance,
El
PS I think that's the way the system is set up. I just put everything into paragraphs also and it did the same thing. However, I'm no computer genious either. lol
Last edited by Elliemae100; 07-19-2002 at 11:48 PM.
hey Ellie,how long after breakfast do you work out? if it's only an hour or so then maybe have your E.C.A. stack and then some fruit (i used to love pineapple) then do your workout. you might want to experiment with a few types of post-workout meals. i used to like rice & egg whites,chicken & rice,oats & low-fat milk but the perfect thing STRAIGHT AWAY after a workout would be a protein shake in gatorade.a high glycemic carb and some good quality protein is what your body will be screaming out for especially after the thrashing you give to your body.LOL!!! you may want to drop the bread altogether for a while and see how that affects you. (i know, you love bread don't you?) but just for a while. it's VERY hard for me to write an exact eating plan but if you stick to fish,tuna,chicken,egg whites mixed with some low glycemic vege's (green vege's are best) and salads throughout the day to fit your lifestyle, keep your carbs to a bare minimum later in the day you'd be pretty much on the right track.also keep fruit as pre-workout only. when using an ECA stack you should increase your protein and good fats a little and drop your carb intake (this is where dropping the bread would be beneficial). i'm haven't heard a lot about the ECA stack you're using but my girlfriend got really good results from hydroxycut but they did give her a bit of anxiety.although most recommend 3 doses,i have just as good results from only 2.first thing in the morning about an hour before training and again about 3:00pm before i go to work (afternoon shift) i found this was plenty. i hope i've been of some help. just make little changes at a time because you look fantastic the way you are.(why aren't you looking at the camera?) you just have to fine tune things. if stretching intefere's with your workout then stretch for about 15 or 20 minutes after your workout.it doesn't have to be leg day. you won't believe how something so simple can give you such great results. just start easy. i got some hints from a friend of mine who has been into martial arts since he was 9. they are very knowledgeable on stretching. sorry for taking a while to get back to you but i was almost finished the first time when my screen went black and i lost everything. so i really couldn't do it again right away. i was a bit annoyed!!LOL. please let me know,good or bad, on how you go.Richie. i hope you're not asleep after reading all that!!
Hi Ritchie,
Thanks for your post. No, I'm not asleep after reading all that. (smile)
Workout is about an hour after breakfast. Tried not eating before workout but from wakeup to after workout I was totally starving and would have trouble finishing cardio. Printed and read your post this morning and decided to have a shake and some strawberries for breakfast. Bad? After workout I didn't have a sandwhich I just had the tuna mixed with mustard and a shake. Yes, you're right. I'm going to have a hard time with the bread situation. I make most of my own bread and I really like it. Make this oat bread that's awesome for any meal. Not a real rice and pasta person. There's only a few ways to fix that I really like and they're just screaming fat so I pretty well just gave up on those. That's one of the problems I'm having also. Tuna is really awful! I really have to choke it down. You know the feeling when you've eaten more of your fair share of hard boiled eggs and they just sit at the back of your throat. Even water doesn't help. Well, that's pretty much tuna for me. The only thing that helps is that I mix it with mustard and so far I like that. I'm not a red meat eater so chicken is about the extent of the meat varieties for me. As far as you were saying about anxiety from the hydroxycut your girlfriend had.....was it those or was it from carb depletion? I find upon carb depletion I tend to get a bit cranky. Seems also like when I cut carbs more than I have I get this overwhelming craving for marshmallows. I could eat them by the bag, I don't but boy is it a nagging want. What is that all about? I didn't eat them before all of this. Funny, huh. (smile)
As far as not looking into the camera goes. Just a vain thing I feel, I guess. Feel like it'd be okay if you were in front of a judge competing or on some magazine but I posted these onto a website and it just feels funny.
Last week I started to work in stretching a bit after I get home from the gym. My 3yo thought it was cool so he did it too, that made it more fun. (smile)
Thanks again for the input.
Me
hi Ellie, if you're having trouble with some of the foods i mentioned (tuna i haven't eaten in years and if it was the last edible thing on the planet well.........i'd be a goner!!) just stick to your usual eating plan......yes, the bread to. LOL!!!. you're obviously doing something right because you look great and i'm not just saying that. i mentioned above making small changes and see how you go. so adding the ECA stack and some stretching should be "small" enough change for now so keep everything else the same. my girlfriend has an allergy to aspirin so i'm thinking that it may be that (causing anxiety) but i'm not really sure if it would though. i've got some ripped fuel (which doesn't contain aspirin or white willow) which she is going to try so we'll see what happens. but aside from that she dropped a stack of weight and all she did was power walk 4 or 5 times a week before work. she's not a Gym person at all. Xenadrine is also an ECA stack i've found to be quite good. i'm on a keto diet (high fat,moderate protein and very,very low carbs) at the moment and the xenadrine really helps kill the cravings for cakes & ice-cream. good luck with the stretching. i actually look forward to it now as it feels so good when your finished. just pick 2 or 3 stretches you like for quads and 2 for the hammies and spend some time (up to 15 or 20 minutes) even attempt to do the front splits (one leg forward & the other behind you)once a week to measure your progress. just remember to take it slow at first if you haven't done it before.(very important) you don't have to do it every day but working up to 3 or 4 times a week would be good. don't expect immediate results but one day you'll look at yourself in the mirror and think "wow, look at the shape i've got in my legs now.i must give that Richie lots & lots of money for giving me such great advice"hee hee!! anyway it's late now and starting to talk crap so better get to bed. good luck with everything.Richie
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Quad Definition
Re: Leg Workout
Quad workout
Quad quandry
Quads
Anyway, I'm 5'4" & 120lbs. Lately, I haven't wanted any more quad size, so I most stick to somewhat lighter weights & higher reps. Oh, and I forgot to say, you might want to throw in some straight leg deadlifts for the hamstrings -- those get me every time.
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