***Stop saying 8-12 reps are only hypertrophy rep ranges***Read This!!!

[olinerules87]

Everytime someone comes on here asking if they can gain mass doing 5x5 or some other lower rep scheme someone always jumps in and says "NO for hypertrophy you gotta do 8-12 reps only. Less that that is teh strength."

We'll I'm a little tired of that because I know you can gain lots of mass doing lower reps. Don't believe me? Try doing 10x3 instead of 3x10 for a little while. 10x3 allows you to do the same amount of volume as 3x10 but you use a lot more weight. It can be just as good, if not better, that 3x10 for hypertrophy.

anyways here is an article backing me up:

Low Rep Muscle Building
by Chad Waterbury

Low repetition training (under five reps) with a large load (85 to 100% of one rep max) recruits the greatest percentage of Type IIB fibers, which have the highest potential for muscle growth.

How many times have you read an article by a strength coach who said something along the lines of, "Olympic athletes perform low repetition training for the majority of their cycle and they gain little or no muscle weight, so low-rep training doesn't cause much, if any, muscle growth." Baloney!

Did these same strength coaches ever think that maybe these lifters didn't want to gain weight so they could stay in their respected weight class? If so, it would be easy to control the amount of muscle weight gained by merely decreasing the number of total calories consumed each day. If they consumed maintenance or sub-maintenance level calories each day, they wouldn't grow any appreciable amounts of muscle regardless of the training method. Therefore, the amount of muscle an athlete gains could easily be controlled (or maintained) by their caloric intake.

Second, the number of sets performed would have a greater influence on muscle growth than the number of repetitions. For example, a trainee might read about the benefits of low-rep maximal training for gaining size and strength. Since he currently performs three sets of ten reps for each body part, he decides to increase the load and decrease the reps to three per set. Now the trainee is performing three sets of three reps for each body part. No wonder he doesn't grow any muscle; he's only performing nine total reps!

If this same trainee would perform ten sets of three to five reps, the muscle growth would be much greater. Therefore, total volume determines the amount of muscle growth elicited, not just reps. (By the way, executing ten sets of three to five reps is one of my most successful methods for adding muscle mass to clients.)

Given the two previous explanations, it becomes apparent that the total number of sets (volume) and caloric intake are what determines the amount of muscle growth. Therefore, lift heavy with some volume and add calories if you want to grow!

[johno_66]

Well i would say from experience 5-16 reps will gain size.

[infused]

Well I changed from more reps to lower reps, more sets and I noticed a big increase.

[Thunderjason]

ill try that

[whitesox3223]

anyone experienced will say its best to utilize various rep schemes

[Falconkaji]

Sounds sort of like DC training.. read this, i'm going to start implementing this philosophy and seeing how it works.

http://freakzonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22233

[Baker19]

Originally Posted by whitesox3223

anyone experienced will say its best to utilize various rep schemes

Agreed.. Heres what I do

Week 1-
Back, Biceps <8 Reps, w/ light deads
Chest, Shoulders, Triceps >8 reps
Legs >8 reps, w/ heavy squats

Week 2-
Back Biceps >8 reps, w/ heavy deads
Chest, Shoulders, Triceps <8 reps
Legs <8 reps, w/ light squats

[ARPace]

Originally Posted by olinerules87

Try doing 10x3 instead of 3x10 for a little while. 10x3 allows you to do the same amount of volume as 3x10 but you use a lot more weight. It can be just as good, if not better, that 3x10 for hypertrophy.

Of course lower rep ranges can be good for hypertrophy. And yes i would agree that 10X3 is far superior to 3X10, but who the hell only does 3 sets? I'd much rather do 10X10 thank you.

[BillabongVolcom]

My friend trains 10x5 and he's is freaking big for how tall he is. He always looks flexed and he doesn't even really diet, he just eats pretty much any food he can get his hands on esp. protein. But he doesn't take any supps, just lifts heavy and around 5-6 days a week. Every body-part twice a week.

[Muscle1.]

Just sayin': This is an article backed with no studies, experiments, etc. I believe 8-12 range isn't the end all, but this is just an article from a guy who knows stuff about bodybuilding. Most people aren't going to change their beliefs to one article with no scientific back up... Again, Just Sayin'

[chiron]

This is sort of the method that Chad was getting at last week when he posted his article "Everything is about to Change." This article can help to explain why the 'new' method works so effectively at building muscle and strength. It's because when you stop before failure, you can do many more sets and therefore greatly increase the total volume.

[olinerules87]

Originally Posted by whitesox3223

anyone experienced will say its best to utilize various rep schemes

totally agree

Originally Posted by Falconkaji

Sounds sort of like DC training.. read this, i'm going to start implementing this philosophy and seeing how it works.

http://freakzonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22233

this is nothing like DC. WTF are you talking about?
DC involves one rest pause set

Originally Posted by Muscle1.

Just sayin': This is an article backed with no studies, experiments, etc. I believe 8-12 range isn't the end all, but this is just an article from a guy who knows stuff about bodybuilding. Most people aren't going to change their beliefs to one article with no scientific back up... Again, Just Sayin'

this one article doesn't have sources cited but is based off Chad's studies, readings, and years of experience. I am just saying don't go telling everyone 8-12 is the only rep range that gets hypertrophy because it isn't.

If anyone wants to know more about this stuff go read more of Chad Waterbury's stuff at t-nation.com

[Delgadido]

i believe 1-3 ranges are best for hypertrophy


-Dr. Delgado PHD.
(sarcasm)

see. over the internet i am a doctor. so i know what i am talking about

[yzrider400f]

I use the entire rep range (low being 6 and highest being 15 and 30 for calves)

[JordanW]

who cares about size all that matters is pure strength

[Atheimetal]

Honestly I always thought volume was more important than individual sets alone. I mean, when determining how much hypertrophy is occurring it wouldn't make ANY sense to only take one set into consideration, because you still have an entire workout other than that one set.

Regardless, good post.

[PumpingSteel]

Originally Posted by Falconkaji

Sounds sort of like DC training.. read this, i'm going to start implementing this philosophy and seeing how it works.

http://freakzonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22233

wtf DC is VERY low volume and this guy is saying that its volume that matters, not reps.

[olinerules87]

If anyone wants to know more about this philosophy go read the Set/Rep Bible:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....5-091-training

[PumpingSteel]

i would give his theory a try.. but im a swimmer, i can't afford to do 3 ~ 5 reps per set.

[An0nymous]

So this type of workout would substantially work for about anybody who has had weight lifting experience? Or is it for more of the very experienced lifters and vets of bodybuilding.

Any help would be appreciated.

[olinerules87]

Originally Posted by PumpingSteel

i would give his theory a try.. but im a swimmer, i can't afford to do 3 ~ 5 reps per set.

why would it not work? are you trianing for endurancce?

Originally Posted by An0nymous

So this type of workout would substantially work for about anybody who has had weight lifting experience? Or is it for more of the very experienced lifters and vets of bodybuilding.

Any help would be appreciated.

would work good for anyone, experience wouldn't matter

[Grezlar]

I like the 5-8 rep range, heavy

Also, I personally don't believe in reps above 12...that's just my preference though...

[Unsterblich]

There are too many variables to come up with fix all solution for the set/rep scheme. It depends upon the exercise, and goals. I usually work in the 4-10 range, 6-8 most of the time. I really need to get back into lifting extra heavy weights.

[swordsmanzenn]

i totally agreed with him and i din't even read it. my friend rob has a HUGE chest and he does reps like 5X 4,3,2,1,1 and suck of just flat bench. he is a big guy and he sticks to the basics. they call him hercules at work hehe.

[extracerealrock]

i always say 4-8reps for compounds and 8-12 for insalation

[iridebikes247]

Alright on this topic....strengh training does have its purpose but as opposed to your body refilling glycogen super quick it works on the stimulus it was just presented with first with the mRna in your cells. This is why guys who train with PUMP training have fuller looking muscles when they get big...wheras the guys who rely on heavy weighs and "tension" have more striated looking muscles that are just plain nasty (SICK). Strengh training has its purpose but I definitely would not consider it the best mass gainer. Couple pump training with tension training AND strength training...now we're talking gains. Boost your testosterone levels with the pump training, load up on some carbs do a strength workout a few days later and boom you're jacked...not really.

[iridebikes247]

In addition to my last post, higher reps drain glycogen weight like a mother f*$r so your body refills its glycogen stores FIRST after a workout, THEN works on making you stronger. Therefore pump training can be utilized twice a week for a lagging body part without strength gains. Tension training is the way to go for most of you out there that rely on an overload to stimulate growth. Utilize pump training if you are on roids, or if you are part of the hierarchy of lifters known as "the genetic elite." If you just have to do pump training please couple it with tension training in the 6-10 rep zone, your testosterone will boost by doing the high reps and hell you might even gain some size too bad its all glycogen.....

[-MaKaVeLi-]

He's right, ive been using Max-OT which uses the 4-6 rep range, and have seen huge gains in the last few months.

[ThatArmyKid]

LOL in the workout section there is a Thread that is the exact oppis of this one

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3356861

somtimes i just don't know who is right Ill stick with my higher reps for now because i been doing lower reps for the past 2 month

I think it's good to do both so you hit all muscle fibers

[PumpingSteel]

Originally Posted by olinerules87

why would it not work? are you trianing for endurancce?



would work good for anyone, experience wouldn't matter

i try to get at least 8, and most of the time i try to get around 12 ~ 20.
especially on back day, i do endurance training for my lats.
once i tried rep range 4 ~ 7 i suffered as far as i remember. my lats, shoulders, chest, and legs were burning like hell i hardly got through the swim workout