It really doesn't matter all to much what type of exercise is being performed, as the degradation of intramuscular PCr takes a considerable amount of time to return to baseline values. If you want to take it every day for reassurance, just drop the dose accordingly.Originally Posted by andymurray
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11-09-2012, 06:51 AM #301~
Wherever progression lacks.... regress can be found in abundance.
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11-09-2012, 03:58 PM #302
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11-17-2012, 04:49 AM #303
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11-17-2012, 11:24 AM #304
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11-18-2012, 12:04 PM #305
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11-23-2012, 09:37 AM #306
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11-23-2012, 05:23 PM #307
I used to take creatine but I stopped because of water weight and not wanting to lose gains when I stopped taking it. I train with high intensity for about 90 mins/ day and am not having any problems gaining size and strength, but recently I've started training very hard and I'm wondering if I should start taking it again for an extra boost? Is it worth it to take temporarily or would I need to stay on it? Is it worth taking permanently? Just wondering what your opinions on it..
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11-26-2012, 11:17 AM #308
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11-26-2012, 12:58 PM #309
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Not to speak for NO HYPE but:
It would seem to me that the recommended daily dosage of 5g / day is far more than required to maintain high levels within muscle tissue. The original purpose of this thread was actually addressing the fact that you probably don't need that much creatine a day to maintain supraphysiologic muscle tissue levels.
The down regulation of endogenous creatine production caused by exogenous creatine consumption is most likely marginal compared to how much you're pumping in exogenously.
An analogous situation would be when a person takes testosterone (exogenously) and this down regulates their endogenous production; However, their levels of testosterone would still be far supraphysiologic as compared to baseline.
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11-27-2012, 02:01 AM #310
NO HYPE, you say 3-5 gram, 3x a week. Could I go with the 3 gram estimate? Or is 5 grams a safer bet?
30% less precursors surely reduces endogenous synthesis by a significant amount. If endogenous synthesis was to go down 0.6g (30%), should I add 0.6g daily?
A study on rats revealed that going down to 1g per day still saw a 30% decrease. Heres the study - http://gala.gre.ac.uk/3355/
We need a study comparing creatine stores after 19 wks, for 1.5 g and 5 gram doses. This would confirm that less creatine is okay.Last edited by mike990; 11-27-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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11-27-2012, 10:29 AM #311
No. The replacement [is] the supplemented creatine. That study was conducted to merely evaluate the impact of exogenous creatine on endogenous creatine synthesis.
There's really nothing set in stone at this point, so you kinda have to judge the amount by how often you workout, duration, and/or level of intesity. For example, someone who trains as a marathon runner is obviously going to benefit more from a higher/more frequent dosing protocol than that of your average gym goer. Let's say you have 4 average workouts per-week.... just take like 3-grams on workout days, and leave it at that. The basic premise is to avoid it's daily supplementation.
No. Only L-AGAT activity and GAA concentrations decreased in the rats --> there were no appreciable differences in serum creatine, as there was an exogenous source.~
Wherever progression lacks.... regress can be found in abundance.
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11-28-2012, 02:12 AM #312
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12-14-2012, 04:03 AM #313
NO HYPE, The following studies suggest 2 grams per day isn't enough
Reference 1: no increase in muscle creatine concentration using two grams of creatine per day even after six weeks:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449017
Reference 2: in a study by Dr. Jeff Volek, subjects who loaded with creatine and then used a maintenance dosage of five grams per day for 11 weeks lost over half of the creatine they had stored:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332335/
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12-15-2012, 11:53 AM #314
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12-17-2012, 01:49 AM #315
I've tried creatine a few times and didn't really notice much of a difference. I guess it's because I also didn't use it very long or very often. Here's my point of view about supplements in general: I think that a lot of people mistakenly use supplements as a replacement rather than an addition. Proper nutrition is still very vital and most of your key nutrients should come from your food. Supplements, in my opinion, are designed to "put the icing on the cake" for those days when you happen to fall short on your food intake. For instance, if your diet consists of heavy amounts of protein and carbohydrates and you happen to fall just a wee bit short of your suggested protein intake from your foods, then they protein supplements are great giving you that extra boost. Maybe you only ate three servings of vegetables instead of five. The multi-vitamins can give you that extra boost to meet your daily goal. Some people, however, rely completely on supplements and not enough on nutrition. I like creatine, personally. I just don't rely exclusively on it. This is only my opinion
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12-17-2012, 03:50 AM #316
NO HYPE, The following studies suggest 2 grams per day isn't enough
Reference 1: no increase in muscle creatine concentration using two grams of creatine per day even after six weeks:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332335/
Reference 2: in a study by Dr. Jeff Volek, subjects who loaded with creatine and then used a maintenance dosage of five grams per day for 11 weeks lost over half of the creatine they had stored:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449017
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12-17-2012, 05:22 AM #317
At 2 grams per-day [in the presence of endurance/aerobic exercise], the subjects never reached maximal PCr saturation. Using larger doses at the onset of supplementation in an effort to influence the sodium-dependent transporter, appears to be an important factor prior to intramuscular PCr saturation.
According to the P-MRS analysis, ingestion of creatine didn't even influence PCr at rest - let alone during exercise. Also, the actual duration of supplementation was 6-weeks @ 2 grams per-day however, it's not clear at which timepoint creatine supplementation ended in relation to the analysis itself.~
Wherever progression lacks.... regress can be found in abundance.
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12-17-2012, 05:24 AM #318
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12-17-2012, 10:11 AM #319
Here is the full article. Look at table 7
http://www.udel.edu/PT/PT%20Clinical...eb00/volek.pdf
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12-17-2012, 10:12 AM #320
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12-17-2012, 10:58 AM #321
The goal is to elevate baseline concentrations. At no point were baseline values negatively compromised. The end result was significantly elevated concentrations over that of the placebo group.
"Creatine values at week 12 were [slightly] lower but still significantly greater than placebo subjects."~
Wherever progression lacks.... regress can be found in abundance.
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12-17-2012, 11:03 AM #322
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12-17-2012, 11:04 AM #323
A loading phase [of some degree] appears to be of value. Should this loading phase reflect that of the well-known 20 grams per-day? I doubt it however, there are few studies that have established anything conclusive, so it's anyone's guess.
Following an initial loading phase, yes.Last edited by NO HYPE; 12-17-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Wherever progression lacks.... regress can be found in abundance.
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12-17-2012, 11:09 AM #324
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12-17-2012, 11:15 AM #325
Following an initial loading phase, yes.[/QUOTE]
The following study states that 3 grams a day has the same effect as a loading dose
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8828669
Will 2 grams a day cause saturation, as 3 grams did?Last edited by mike990; 12-17-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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12-17-2012, 11:37 AM #326
Yes, but as you can see by the previous study you cited, the existing data is conflicting. I'm not sure about the accuracy of P-MRS as a method of calculation vs. using muscle biopsies. Nonetheless, I don't think anything is set in stone at this point.
Not sure as the evidence is scarce, but the difference is only 1-gram, so just go with 3 if you're unsure.~
Wherever progression lacks.... regress can be found in abundance.
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12-17-2012, 11:46 AM #327
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12-17-2012, 12:03 PM #328
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12-17-2012, 12:11 PM #329
Also, the 2 gram study seems dodgy as meat eaters have higher creatine stores then vegetarians. Meat eaters on average consume 1-1.2 grams a day.
So 2 grams or lower should make a difference to pcr muscle stores.
I would love to see a study that addresses your recommendation of 3 grams, 3 times a week. Or just 1.287 grams a day.Last edited by mike990; 12-17-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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09-06-2013, 03:33 AM #330
Woops, realised an error there. Pcr stores and creatine stores are not the same thing. I will do some research to find out if meat eaters have higher pcr stores. If they do, then the 2 gram study remains dodgy.
It's a shame No HYPE has been banned. I know he was a bit short-tempered, but he was a knowledgable poster.
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