What are the best exercises to acomplish this?
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Thread: Gaining mass on Obliques
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09-01-2004, 09:53 AM #1
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09-01-2004, 10:27 AM #2
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09-01-2004, 11:55 AM #3
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09-01-2004, 12:07 PM #4
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09-01-2004, 12:54 PM #5
Deadlifts work well. If you want to target them directly, do "saxon side bends" where you hold a couple of dumbells above your head and bend from side to side.
Shown here: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459681
Just scroll down and you'll find it, it's one of the best core exercises out there. But I have to warn you, start light! Start very light and move up until you're comfortable with it. I started too heavy and on the first bend my spine went to hell.
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09-01-2004, 01:06 PM #6
large obliques make for a cylinder shape instead of a v-shape. if you're bulking up right now, i wouldn't even worry about them. wait until you're cutting. proper diet is gonna be the best route. the only exercise i do for them is bent leg raises. by bending my legs i keep from over exerting my lower back. though some may argue that this exercise involves too much hip flexion... it's worked well for me.
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09-01-2004, 03:51 PM #7
Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by EliteLifts
Squats
Deads
Lots of food.
What other muscles would you work with isometrics and with movements that use them as simple stabilizers? The obliques get active use with twisting. One does a concentric, the other an eccentic, simultaneously. How does a dead or a squat simulate that?
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09-01-2004, 03:57 PM #8
Re: Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by zackmurphy
??
What other muscles would you work with isometrics and with movements that use them as simple stabilizers? The obliques get active use with twisting. One does a concentric, the other an eccentic, simultaneously. How does a dead or a squat simulate that?
I've never done a side bend or a twist or any of that other **** in my life and my obliques have come along quite nicely.
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09-01-2004, 04:11 PM #9
Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by EliteLifts
Uh....the point is, deads and squats will add mass everywhere. I'm sure, no make that know, that that would include obliques as well.
I've never done a side bend or a twist or any of that other **** in my life and my obliques have come along quite nicely.
But as far as how to train a certain area - why would you pick two movements that don't even do a concentric contraction on that area, as opposed to the basic, solid oblique movements we all know and love? Those three on the t-mag link, for example. To develop obliques, they chose 3 moves that acively contract the obliques. Not deads.
I can grow my delts from squats, but it doesn't mean squats are a great delt move.
Besides, you use your obliques all day every day, in the gym and out. Not as if they're just magically developing with only deads.
It's nothing personal, truly - I just feel this tendency to suggest whole-body moves for abs and core muscles has been taken a little too far (and without any actual basis in fact). EMG studies have shows that the abs and obliques don't even contract on deads and squats, except for brief isometrics, simply to stabilize the upper body. Not even a sustained torque is placed on them.
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09-01-2004, 04:19 PM #10
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09-01-2004, 04:27 PM #11
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by zackmurphy
Sure, get a good-preworkout meal in, get some good ol' insulin floating around, your body is primed for anabolism, and do some full-body movements. Of course you'll get some general growth. I'm not disputing that.
But as far as how to train a certain area - why would you pick two movements that don't even do a concentric contraction on that area, as opposed to the basic, solid oblique movements we all know and love? Those three on the t-mag link, for example. To develop obliques, they chose 3 moves that acively contract the obliques. Not deads.
I can grow my delts from squats, but it doesn't mean squats are a great delt move.
Besides, you use your obliques all day every day, in the gym and out. Not as if they're just magically developing with only deads.
It's nothing personal, truly - I just feel this tendency to suggest whole-body moves for abs and core muscles has been taken a little too far (and without any actual basis in fact). EMG studies have shows that the abs and obliques don't even contract on deads and squats, except for brief isometrics, simply to stabilize the upper body. Not even a sustained torque is placed on them.
And I agree, it is a pretty boring muscle group to be talking about.
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09-01-2004, 04:47 PM #12
Re: Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by zackmurphy
??
What other muscles would you work with isometrics and with movements that use them as simple stabilizers? The obliques get active use with twisting. One does a concentric, the other an eccentic, simultaneously. How does a dead or a squat simulate that?
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09-01-2004, 04:49 PM #13
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09-01-2004, 05:55 PM #14
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09-01-2004, 06:09 PM #15
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by zackmurphy
Sure, get a good-preworkout meal in, get some good ol' insulin floating around, your body is primed for anabolism, and do some full-body movements. Of course you'll get some general growth. I'm not disputing that.
But as far as how to train a certain area - why would you pick two movements that don't even do a concentric contraction on that area, as opposed to the basic, solid oblique movements we all know and love? Those three on the t-mag link, for example. To develop obliques, they chose 3 moves that acively contract the obliques. Not deads.
I can grow my delts from squats, but it doesn't mean squats are a great delt move.
Besides, you use your obliques all day every day, in the gym and out. Not as if they're just magically developing with only deads.
It's nothing personal, truly - I just feel this tendency to suggest whole-body moves for abs and core muscles has been taken a little too far (and without any actual basis in fact). EMG studies have shows that the abs and obliques don't even contract on deads and squats, except for brief isometrics, simply to stabilize the upper body. Not even a sustained torque is placed on them.Last edited by Stagger; 09-01-2004 at 06:13 PM.
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09-01-2004, 10:57 PM #16
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by Stagger
If it works, it works. Forget EMG studies, if deadlifts make your obliques grow a lot, then they're a good oblique exercise. Your waist muscles are made for stabilization of the body during full-body load-bearing movements. Especially your obliques, since your rectus abdominis doesn't do much to protect the spine."When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail."
-Abraham Maslow
"Ass busting work + consistency + time = results.
Burn that into your head and quit looking for quick fixes and secrets. Because they don't exist."
-Lyle McDonald
"You can't overwhelm idiots with knowledge, but, sadly, the knowledgable can be overwhelmed by idiots."
-Charlie Francis
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09-01-2004, 11:34 PM #17
My obliques and abs are always massively sore after deadlift. That at least means those muscles aren't exactly twiddling their thumbs during that exercise.
El Dudereno he say: "Make every day an anabolic day."
>>>>>>
anabolic
\An`a*bol"ic\, a.(Physiol.) Pertaining to anabolism; an anabolic change or process, more or less constructive in its nature.
>>>>>>
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09-02-2004, 09:02 AM #18
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaining mass on Obliques
Originally posted by Stagger
If it works, it works. Forget EMG studies, if deadlifts make your obliques grow a lot, then they're a good oblique exercise. Your waist muscles are made for stabilization of the body during full-body load-bearing movements. Especially your obliques, since your rectus abdominis doesn't do much to protect the spine.
And I think it's more option B that's being cited here.
EMG studies aren't hocus pocus. I think people tend to blow off what they haven't had much experience with, and no biggie - how many of us hook ourselves up to EMGs before we do our delt routine - but we all can feel what it feels like to get the delts tired. They simply show how much muscle fiber activity there is during a move, and for squats and deads (and the article I was reading cited SLDLs and other full body lifts like that, too), the work on the rectus abdominus and int. and ext. obliques, the impulses/contractions were short, inconsistent, mostly isometric, and only related to general stability. Interesting, the transverse abdominus got much more action than expected on those, presumably because of forceful respiration (exhalation) during the concentric.
Anyway, oh - and ElDuderino, this is mainly directed at you: I know we're chatted before about routines and diets and such, and I don't recall what kind of program you're working right now, but if your obliques and abs are "always massively sore after deadlift", I would wonder what your ab and oblique exercises are, if you do ab and oblique work. It would suggest you're not training them enough or properly. No offense is intended in any way. I just know that if my calves were always sore from squats, I would draw from that to do more calf work, not that squats are great for calves. You know?
Okay, enough of that.
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