EFAs in the morning, EFAs at night.....

**Derek0783** · 08-23-2004, 04:29 PM

What is most beneficial part of the day to consume fish and or get the bulk of my good daily fat; before a workout or after a workout?

I usually eat 2 meals before I hit the gym. One breakfast full of good carbs and some protein, and then another meal soon after full of more good complex carbs and protein. I am going to start adding in a serving of fish everyday, but would like to know the best time to eat it to get the best utilization. If it were up to me, I'd eat a portion of steak, fish, milk, for each and everymeal just to make sure i always get what I need at the most effective time of day, but nobody has the time or patients to prepare everysource of food per meal. So when is the best time to get EFAs? Sometime before the workout or sometime after?

Thanks

**sawastea** · 08-23-2004, 04:41 PM

Good times to consume EFA's include: breakfast, mid morning (if you workout in the afternoon) and at bedtime

**Melkor** · 08-23-2004, 04:43 PM

There's about a two hour window before and after workout where you don't want any fats at all, they slow absorption of other nutrients (which, incidentally, is why fat lowers GI). Fit your EFAs in any other time besides that. It's nice to spread them out (I take two TBS of flax morning, one evening usually, although sometimes I take it all in the morning. I take fish oil caps three times a day) but really not necessary.

**RipStone** · 08-23-2004, 04:46 PM

Sorry but what are EFA's?

**Derek0783** · 08-23-2004, 05:04 PM

I don't have EFA supplements or capsules. I usually like to get them straight from the source. I don't feel comfortable using supplements other than Protein and glut. Plus, I don't want to miss out on the calories...lol.

Thanks for everyone's advice. Very helpful.

P.S. EFAs are Essential Fatty Acids. They are the fat that your body needs. There are many articles that will explain them in much detail. Later.

**Melkor** · 08-23-2004, 05:09 PM

You're going to have to eat a lot of fish and flax seeds my friend. Good luck with that.. lol

**kakaroto** · 08-25-2004, 04:09 PM

EFA = Essential Fatty Acids

**Derek0783** · 08-25-2004, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Melkor
You're going to have to eat a lot of fish and flax seeds my friend. Good luck with that.. lol

LOL...

What a lot though? Are EFA's to Fish like Creatine is to Meat? By that I mean you know how you have to eat like 20lbs of meat to get like 5grams of creatine. Is it like that with fish and EFA's? Would I have to eat 4 servings of fish for a good dose of EFA's or more like 20lbs? If it's 20lbs, i'll rethink my plan of attack..lol.

**Melkor** · 08-25-2004, 08:00 PM

Well, fish and flax have different benefits, and you want both. You want 10 or more grams of fish fat a day (not just any fish either, lol. Salmon or Cod Liver) and I take either 28 or 42 grams of flax a day. I don't have the numbers of how much fish/flax seed you'd have to eat for that, but it would be a lot.

**AJbuilder** · 08-25-2004, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Melkor
There's about a two hour window before and after workout where you don't want any fats at all, they slow absorption of other nutrients (which, incidentally, is why fat lowers GI). Fit your EFAs in any other time besides that. It's nice to spread them out (I take two TBS of flax morning, one evening usually, although sometimes I take it all in the morning. I take fish oil caps three times a day) but really not necessary.

There is actually plenty of new evidence , some cited in John Ivy's Nutrient Timing System book, that now supports that EFAs to be consumed one to two hours after a workout are a benefit in recovery and setting the anabolic stage to follow. For one reason, efas specifically omega 3s and 9s helps act as catalysts in ridding the body of metabolic wastes and roaming free radicals that causes trigger points and soreness. The real window of opportunity may just be only one hour following a workout. And the window of opportunity depends on how much "damage" you did in your workout or the intensity of workout with respect to effort. It varies . And if you were to just consume a simple carb/high GI plus whey protein shake after a workout, it helps to recover and set stage for anabolism. Then you can count the next meal which would usually be an hour after the shake to be a normal meal. The GI level in this case wouldn't matter much since your muscle cells are still slightly receptive to insulin but not as receptive as it was directly prior to a workout. It becomes a bit more resistant so you don't really have to worry about high GI or low GI. In fact, the body might prefer low gi two hours after workout because insulin resistance would be higher. It just wouldn't matter much at all anyway as long as you get the required nutrients. Absorption would still occur because the body would always take into account energy balance as the importance.

**kakaroto** · 08-26-2004, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Derek0783
LOL...

What a lot though? Are EFA's to Fish like Creatine is to Meat? By that I mean you know how you have to eat like 20lbs of meat to get like 5grams of creatine. Is it like that with fish and EFA's? Would I have to eat 4 servings of fish for a good dose of EFA's or more like 20lbs? If it's 20lbs, i'll rethink my plan of attack..lol.

YES I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT NOT THAT MUCH BUT YES VERY LITTLE..... THAT�S WHY IN ORDER NOT TO EAT A LOT OF FISH, LOOK OUT FOR OTHER EFA SOURCES LIKE:

avacodo,nuts(plain unsalted),brazil nuts, walnuts, seeds, flax seed, pumpkin, oats, olives and olive oil, white fish or better- sardine,mackerel,salmon,pilchard

don't buy these products as pre-packed sugar added, sodium added etc... buy as much clean or fresh untouched.

kakaroto

**kakaroto** · 08-26-2004, 06:53 AM

And answering your question HOW MUCH EFA?
well try to make them as much as you can

**Derek0783** · 08-26-2004, 09:41 AM

thanks. couldn't have gotten better advise. Later

**LiL USMC BBer** · 08-26-2004, 10:18 AM

My last three meals of the day is when I consume my efa's.

meal 6 I take in like 14 fish caps

meal 7 I take in one tbsn flax oil

meal 8 I take in two tbsn natty pb...

I would guess the rest of my fats come from eggs... chicken... whatever...

**bkman4** · 08-26-2004, 10:25 AM

I try to keep it away from major carb intake to avoid storage...otherwise, matters not.

**kakaroto** · 08-26-2004, 10:53 AM

Go light on the carbs on your last 3 meals, you will be having your most carbs earlier in the day.
in this last 3 meals your fats, opt for only fibrous carbs if possible, and feel free to eat a couple cups of them at least.

i was also advice not to take mroe than 10g. This is plenty, give or take.

**Kruger** · 08-26-2004, 11:39 AM

wait, why did that guy say no fats preworkout? Wouldnt it be better considering the nutrient-slow absorbtion means once you reach catabolic state they get released>instead of earlier?

**jaymed** · 08-26-2004, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Melkor
Well, fish and flax have different benefits, and you want both. You want 10 or more grams of fish fat a day (not just any fish either, lol. Salmon or Cod Liver) and I take either 28 or 42 grams of flax a day. I don't have the numbers of how much fish/flax seed you'd have to eat for that, but it would be a lot.

Melkor, if you have a link to an article that shows the benefits of fish oil, I'd appreciate it greatly. Your post is the first I've read that pushes the use of both flax and fish oil and I've read other posts from you (so I know you're knowledgeable)

Thanks.

**kakaroto** · 08-26-2004, 04:35 PM

I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY IT IS NOT GOOD TO TAKE FATS 2 HOURS BEFOR AND AFTER WORKOUT?????

ME NO COMPRENDO!

IT TRUE, THEN IT IS HARD TO REAYH THE FAT INTAKE REQUIRED
FOR ME 70GRAMS

**Melkor** · 08-26-2004, 04:54 PM

Pre and postworkout you avoid fats because immediately pwo there is a brief window of time where you are hypersensitive to insulin and your body desperately wants carbs and protein to begin muscle repair and growth. Fat slows the absorption of nutrients, and blunts insulin response (insulin is the "key" to the cells, allowing nutrients to pass into them. Without the presence of insulin cells cannot absorb nutrients. The more insulin, the greater the uptake (if carbs/protein are available) and that is why you want a fast acting carb/protein pwo that causes an insulin spike). This is why you want to take your fats during other parts of the day. Does that help?

**Melkor** · 08-26-2004, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by jaymed
Melkor, if you have a link to an article that shows the benefits of fish oil, I'd appreciate it greatly. Your post is the first I've read that pushes the use of both flax and fish oil and I've read other posts from you (so I know you're knowledgeable)

Thanks.

I don't have very much time right now, but when I get home from work I'll get a couple good articles and post them here for you jaymed. Give me a little bit...

Btw, these are the fatty acids you are looking for every day, and flax does not provide all of them.

Alpha-Linolenic Acid (omega-3)
Docosahexaenoic Acid (omega-3)
Eicosapenttaenoic Acid (omega-3)
Gamma-Linolenic Acid (omega-6)
Linoleic Acid (Omega-6)
Oleic Acid (omega-9)

This would provide a good balance of omega 3, 6, and 9. DHA and EPA are the fish oil omegas, and they are very important for overall health. I'll find an article for you later describing in better detail why you need them.

**brake** · 08-26-2004, 05:06 PM

so if i was to go out now and get some fish oils caps, what minimum content of DHA's and EPA's would i be looking for, idealy?

**Melkor** · 08-26-2004, 05:09 PM

I believe that the content is fairly standardized (in that the makeup of the oil itself determines the amounts involved). I believe you'll find the amounts very close to 180mg EPA and 120 mg DHA (iirc) per gram of fish oil.

**kakaroto** · 08-26-2004, 06:44 PM

HOW MANY GRAMS OF FAT ARE YOU CONSUMING?
I AM NO TALKING ABOUT EFA. ALL FATS
HOW MUCH DO YOU TAKE?

CAUSE I AM A 17 YEARS OLD, 191 POUNDS WITH A 3250 CALORIE DIET WITH 75 GRAMS OF FAT.
I DON�T KNOW IF I HAVE TO DECRESE OR INCREASE IT.
I HEARD A NORMAL MAN TAKES 90GMS OF FATS.

WAHT TO DO?
KAKAROTO

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