Do Dumbbell Flyes...

[weak_17]

...work pretty much the same muscles as the pec deck? Thanks guys!

[imageek]

yeah they all work the chest

[weak_17]

Sweet as, so pretty much doing the same thing as eachother?


Also, are pec decks pretty safe for vunrable shoulders? Thanks again ggggggggggggguys!

[scott_donald]

ok...

[A-rod]

The Pec-dec is better for bodybuilding since it allows for a longer time under tension

[Defiant1]

Originally posted by weak_17
...work pretty much the same muscles as the pec deck? Thanks guys!

Both are Pectoral "isolation" exercises, though flyes are known as a good mass builder.

Flyes work more of the "outer" area (max resistance at stretched position).

Pec-dec works more "inner" area (resistance in contracted position).

Flyes will build more mass due to higher NMA.

[.aeterna]

i prefer standing cable flies rather than either db flys or pecdeck... better stretch

[A-rod]

Originally posted by Defiant1
Both are Pectoral "isolation" exercises, though flyes are known as a good mass builder.

Flyes work more of the "outer" area (max resistance at stretched position).

Pec-dec works more "inner" area (resistance in contracted position).

Flyes will build more mass due to higher NMA.

???" Inner " and " Outer " chest ???



make US a favor and go do some research before you post crappy advice , will ya ?

[unity]

here we go again...

[scott_donald]

Originally posted by A-rod
The Pec-dec is better for bodybuilding since it allows for a longer time under tension

why tho...

and ye here we go again...

[Glockmeister]

Flyes build mass?

[MiloMan]

Originally posted by A-rod
???" Inner " and " Outer " chest ???

It almost makes you want to bash your head into the wall when you read that stuff, doesn't it?

[scott_donald]

Originally posted by MiloMan
It almost makes you want to bash your head into the wall when you read that stuff, doesn't it?

ow.... wondered why i had a sore head...

[Defiant1]

Originally posted by A-rod
???" Inner " and " Outer " chest ???



make US a favor and go do some research before you post crappy advice , will ya ?

I've done more "research" than you've thought about doing.

I've done mine in college, on cadavers, in books, but most importantly IN THE GYM. I agree with the 99% of builders who do shaping exercises, not the 1% of know-it-alls that hover on this site waiting to pounce at any mention of "shape training" or "inner-outer" chest.

Why don't you mind your business? You give your advise, I'll give mine. No need to comment on mine. Truth is self-evident, let the person decide for themselves.

Heres some research for you to ignore.

Jaci VanHeest, World reknown Exercise Physiologist, US Olympic Training Center, Colorado Springs Colorado:

"Muscles contract when tiny levers on myosin, a muscle protein, fit into grooves on actin, another protein, and push it forward exactly like a ratchet wrench. But myosin can latch onto actin in any of several positions, not all of them ideal. Only when the myosin heads are in the right register can the muscle have the optimal tension. But optimizing every actin-myosin pairing is less an achievable goal than a Platonic idea.

Essentially, that means almost every exercise optimizes a different configuration of actin-myosin pairings. While there's some overlap, you have to exercise a muscle in a number of positions to optimize as many of the actin-myosin pairings as possible.


Only a complete idiot after doing both exercises would think they are exactly the same and affect the pecs in the same way.

[hyp3r3xt3nsion]

yes; but stick w/ dipping and heavy pressing.

[HotDamnItsDavid]

Originally posted by hyp3r3xt3nsion
yes; but stick w/ dipping and heavy pressing.

Yes, ever since I've incorporated weighted dips to my routine my chest is looking more fuller and defined. I started off with 25lbs almost 2 months ago now I'm up to 45. Definitely add weighted dips to your routine.

[scott_donald]

Originally posted by HotDamnItsDavid
Yes, ever since I've incorporated weighted dips to my routine my chest is looking more fuller and defined. I started off with 25lbs almost 2 months ago now I'm up to 45. Definitely add weighted dips to your routine.

good to see you progressing nicely...

[A-rod]

Originally posted by scott_donald
why tho...

and ye here we go again...

I feel TUT is critical for mass building , when the dbs are over your chest ( in the db flyes ) there `s lil resistance and the tendency to rest in that position , you cant do that with the pec-dec

[A-rod]

Originally posted by Defiant1
I've done more "research" than you've thought about doing.

I've done mine in college, on cadavers, in books, but most importantly IN THE GYM. I agree with the 99% of builders who do shaping exercises, not the 1% of know-it-alls that hover on this site waiting to pounce at any mention of "shape training" or "inner-outer" chest.

Why don't you mind your business? You give your advise, I'll give mine. No need to comment on mine. Truth is self-evident, let the person decide for themselves.

Heres some research for you to ignore.

Jaci VanHeest, World reknown Exercise Physiologist, US Olympic Training Center, Colorado Springs Colorado:

"Muscles contract when tiny levers on myosin, a muscle protein, fit into grooves on actin, another protein, and push it forward exactly like a ratchet wrench. But myosin can latch onto actin in any of several positions, not all of them ideal. Only when the myosin heads are in the right register can the muscle have the optimal tension. But optimizing every actin-myosin pairing is less an achievable goal than a Platonic idea.

Essentially, that means almost every exercise optimizes a different configuration of actin-myosin pairings. While there's some overlap, you have to exercise a muscle in a number of positions to optimize as many of the actin-myosin pairings as possible.


Only a complete idiot after doing both exercises would think they are exactly the same and affect the pecs in the same way.

It´s already Ignored , thanks


Actin and myosin can only have one configuration during muscle contraction and all a muscle does is contract and relax , doing diferent exercises wont change that

[Defiant1]

Originally posted by A-rod
It´s already Ignored , thanks


Actin and myosin can only have one configuration during muscle contraction and all a muscle does is contract and relax , doing diferent exercises wont change that

A muscle FIBER contracts/relaxes-the individual muscle fibers DO NOT RUN THE WHOLE LENGTH OF THE MUSCLE.

Anecdote: I work with a guy who did 10 years in jail. Prisoners are totally into working out-him included (what else can they do?) The term "pumping iron" is actually a term from prison. Their knowledge is basically word of mouth, but they have great "workout wisdom".
As I was typing this, I was telling him that there are some people who don't think you can train part of a muscle, like inner/outer chest, bicep peak etc. He looked at me with a puzzled expression and said "of course you can, we used to do these (makes motion of close grip bench) for the "diamond" in the center of your chest, and these (makes motion of concentration curl) for peak. He then said these (close grip chins) also build peak. Just wanted to share. (He walked away waving his hand like "man....")

So its: A-rod, Jino, Hyp3r, Fred Hatfield, Ron Harris against the world...j/k

[jino]

Originally posted by MiloMan
It almost makes you want to bash your head into the wall when you read that stuff, doesn't it?

Yeah it makes me want to stick my finger in my throat and vomit

[Defiant1]

Originally posted by jino
Yeah it makes me want to stick my finger in my throat and vomit

I think sticking your head in the sand develops your neck.

[scott_donald]

Originally posted by Defiant1
I think sticking your head in the sand develops your neck.

how...hehe...

[Defiant1]

Originally posted by scott_donald
how...hehe...

The same way putting your hands in sand develops your hands for martial arts.

[Big Nes]

Originally posted by Defiant1
AAnecdote: I work with a guy who did 10 years in jail. Prisoners are totally into working out-him included (what else can they do?) The term "pumping iron" is actually a term from prison. Their knowledge is basically word of mouth, but they have great "workout wisdom".
As I was typing this, I was telling him that there are some people who don't think you can train part of a muscle, like inner/outer chest, bicep peak etc. He looked at me with a puzzled expression and said "of course you can, we used to do these (makes motion of close grip bench) for the "diamond" in the center of your chest, and these (makes motion of concentration curl) for peak. He then said these (close grip chins) also build peak. Just wanted to share. (He walked away waving his hand like "man....")

little did he know that his muscles were simply getting bigger from working them out and he was getting leaner and defined from not having any bull**** food (snacks, fatty foods) in the pen.

[FF Punk]

Originally posted by HotDamnItsDavid
Yes, ever since I've incorporated weighted dips to my routine my chest is looking more fuller and defined. I started off with 25lbs almost 2 months ago now I'm up to 45. Definitely add weighted dips to your routine.

Yeah, sucks that they hurt my sternum; otherwise I would do them.

[MrSinister]

flies and pec decks do anything but build mass.
Pec decks are especially bad as u start off with your arms behind your cuffs which is known as a danger zone and can cause big problems.

[garrett]

I used to do all the flyes, cable crossovers, and pec deck stuff...but in the past eight months that I've dropped those exercises from my chest routine, I've noticed greater mass gains. I don't waste my time with them...I just stick to heavy presses and weighted dips. They work just fine for me.

[Luther1921]

Originally posted by FF Punk
Yeah, sucks that they hurt my sternum; otherwise I would do them.

Dips hurt my sternum and collarbone when I first started doing them. I think everyone feels pain when they first start doing them. I just did them very slowly at first, with no weight, and didn't even go down to parallel. The next time I did them I went all the way down, and within a couple weeks I felt no discomfort at all.

[lgp9999]

Originally posted by unity
here we go again...

We wouldn't have to keep going into this if dumb****s would just accept the fact that you can't shape your muscles.

And by the way, flys aren't pec isolation exarcises. They use back and delts too.