No more High Fat KETO for me! (Keto raised my cholesteral)

[TheCaptain]

As many of you know, prior to starting a CKD KETO diet in January, i went to my doctor for bloodwork (cholesteral, triglycerides etc.).

I did CKD for about 5 months and about 6 weeks ago i switched from the 65% fat, 30% protein and 5% carbs KETO to a 65% protein, 20% fat and 15% carbs Steak and Eggs KETO Diet.

Anyways, today i had my 6 month followup bloodwork and most of the test results had increased from 6 months ago.

To better understand this, note that i get my cholesteral tested annually and each year my doctor compliments me so much because the test results are usually as low as you can possibly test (ie. ultra healthy).

Now have 5 months of High Fat KETO, some tests climbed two or three levels.

For example take my LDL Cholesteral Test. Under 100 is considered very health, 100-129 is considered healthy, 130-159 is considered borderline high, 160-189 is high risk and 190 or above is very high risk.

Having said that, my LDL Cholesteral Test was 62 in January. Over the last 5 months it climbed to 120. Thats almost twice the increase.

Now of course, some of you will probably take notice that i started a Steak and Eggs diet and eggs do have higher cholesterals. But, these tests were performed 2 weeks after i started the Steak and Eggs Diet and my doctor indicated this was too short of a time to seriously impact cholesteral as much as has. He also noted that because im eating fat at or lower then the American Heart Association levels (they recommend fat intake between 20%-30%) and because my sodium intake was under 1800mg (American Heart Association recommeneds under 2400mg) and egg yolk contains a good amount of healthy cholesteral along with my EFA's, he believes my Steak and Eggs diet had very little if any impact during its short duration.
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Ok lets digest this for a moment. My LDL was 62, even though i was at my all-time heaviest bodyfat levels and hadnt workout for a few years due to a back injury.

I switched to a high fat, moderate protein and low carb diet with weekend carbups and weight lifting etc. After 5 months, my bloodwork is out of wack.
________________________________

Ironically, as soon as i mentioned i did a KETO diet and keeping my fat intake at 65%, he immediately identified that as the problem.

I did cite research mentioned on this forum, about how cholesteral doesnt occur when eating high fat and low carbs. Of course his answer was, "Well what does your blood work now prove?".

He also mentioned a lot of his women patients continue to try atkins etc. and explained that my blood work changes are typical of low carb diets.

Another interesting point he made is that some medical journals recently talked about how while people will lose more fat in a quicker amount of time, versus a traditional high carb calorie defecient diet, they balance out at the 1 year mark.

Simply put, most people dont stick with diets too long. Thus they see great, short term losses from KETO diets. But, if they were to stick with a calorie deficient diet that has a variety of carbs, well at around the 7th month that diet starts to catch up with the KETO diet and by the 12th month, the 1 year fat loss is the same.
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Ok a lot to digest here and some of the same retoric that people often hear in the KETO forum.

But, i think the Steak and Eggs diet that i had been doing has taught me some valuable lessons, lessons that i had forgotten over the years.

About keeping fat intake under 20%, keeping sodium under 1800mg, eating your largest meals earlier in the day, maintaining a calorie deficiency, eating 1g of protein per each pound of lean body mass, doing cardio daily, doing weight training daily, eating your favorite foods in moderation, eating mostly low calorie high volume foods, eat at least 25g of fiber, eat lots of veggies and fruit etc.

That said, i will discuss some changes to my Steak and Eggs diet based on this feedback. But, id be interested in what everyone has to say?

[johnnyironboard]

"Well what does your blood work now prove?".

""100-129 is considered healthy,
Having said that, my LDL Cholesteral Test was 62 in January. Over the last 5 months it climbed to 120.""

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by johnnyironboard

What's your point?

My point is that my LDL cholesteral doubled in just 5 months. Going from very healthy to just healthy.

At this rate, if i do KETO for an entire year, i would reach Borderline High.

As everyone knows about cholesteral, its easy to get it and its hard to get rid of it.
______________________________

Now of course, i can see obvious factors in my diet change.

I went from eating 1 cup of oatmeal with egg whites and some orange juice for breakfast. To eating Eggs, sausage, red meat, cheese, pepperoni etc. for breakfast.

I also went from eating 1 chicken breast with whole wheat toast, fat-free mayo and lettuce. To eating again sausage, steak, hamburger, cheese etc.

In short, i went from a low fat, high fiber, low sodium, high protein and moderate carb diet to a high fat, moderate protein, low carb and high sodium diet.

Anyone who knows anything about heart disease will tell you the two biggest culprits are high sodium and high fat.
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Of course there is that whole cholesteral myth going around these days and i honestly have not read anything more about it then what other KETO dieters have stated on this forum.

The idea that eating high fat and low carb does not cause unhealthy cholesteral levels or lead to heart disease etc.

But, as i read more on stuff relating to my Steak and Eggs diet, i am starting to realize that high protein, moderate carbs and low fat seems to be the more common link to health diets. Dont know the research behind it, but its starting to make sense to me.
__________________________

Another thing to really question about the cholesteral myth is with CKD.

You eat high fat, low carb all week long. Then on the weekend you eat high carb, low fat.

But, what about the changeover period?

If High Fat and High Carbs, when mixed, cause bad cholesteral and heart disease, as frequently cited in this cholesteral myth.

Well then there is going to be a crossroads, between going from high fat to high carbs. So how does the body not create bad cholesteral at that point?

Thats one thing i never got with CKD. You eat high fat and low carb most of Friday. Then friday evening you switch to your carb up, thus eating low fat and high carb.

Well obviously its going to take 24 hrs to digest the high fat you consumed. Add high carb the same day, and well its no different then eating high carb and high fat during the same meal, thus resulting in the cholesteral myth's cause for bad cholesteral.
___________________________-

In any event, i am noticing that with some minor tweaking, my Steak and Eggs diet will not only remain KETO but also heart healthy. It might even shape into TKD, with carbs being consumed early in the day rather than pre-workout and being complex rather then simple.

[hardipsrai]

Why would you maintain a Keto diet for a year? I mean, the benefit of the Keto diet, is the fact (as you mentioned) that you drop a lot of fat, fast. It is the 'bodybuilder's' diet, OBVIOUSLY, the typical diet, with a healthy amount of carbs, protein, fats is the way to go in the long run! Keto dieting, I think, should be the last resort for those who cannot shed the weight on a regular diet. Not to go into too much discussion, and without pissin off the 'die hard' keto-goers, I think if your colesterol is going up, then you should reduce the saturated fats, on Keto, it is NOT a requisite that you get all your fat's from foods like eggs, cheese, butter, etc, you can easily substitute these with the more healthy fats, olive oil, fish oils etc. In any sense, blaming a diet is a cheap way of denying that the negligence is on your part, the diet is not guna do all the work, you need to work with it too, adapt it to your own needs.

[ballplaya4237]

Wow...you need to learn to condense your posts.

Ok lets digest this for a moment. My LDL was 62, even though i was at my all-time heaviest bodyfat levels and hadnt workout for a few years due to a back injury.

I switched to a high fat, moderate protein and low carb diet with weekend carbups and weight lifting etc. After 5 months, my bloodwork is out of wack.

I don't see what the big deal is...It was in a healty range and it's still in a healthy range. If you eating naturally occuring 'healthy' foods and parttaking in intense workouts who cares?

You can't honestly say you were healthier before than you are now, can you? You were "the fattest you've ever been" even though your cholesterol levels were lower. Just doesn't seem that important to me..

If you want your cholesterol levels to go back down...go back to doing what you did...

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by ballplaya4237

You can't honestly say you were healthier before than you are now, can you?

Hmmm thats a good question.

Is it healthier to be overweight and have very healthy cholesteral, triglyceride and other levels?

Or is it healthier to have had your bodyweight reduced by 30 lbs but also doubled your cholesteral and increased your triglycerides, etc. ?
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I really dont know the answer to that. Prior to KETO, i ate clean and healthy, just ate it in excess.

So would being lean with unhealthy cholesteral levels be more healthier then overweight with very healthy cholesteral levels?

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by ballplaya4237

Wow...you need to learn to condense your posts.

Yeah i should be a PRO-BLogger

You should see my emails, as with blogs, i like to reply to each line with several paragraphs. LOL

[Random907]

You are some kind of weird opposite man, eh?

Before, you were the heaviest you have ever been and your cholesterol was extremely healthy, and now you are slimmer and your cholesterol doubled.

I had the complete opposite results. I had a good amount of fat on and high cholesterol and after CKD my fat lowered and cholesterol lowered.

Furthermore, I thought you were on a steak and eggs diet, how did you manage to insert sausage and pepperoni in there?

What happened to the no nitrates and borderline sugar or carbohydrates rule?

Just stick to plain meat and green vegetables and clean carbs during carb-ups.

We're not doing this diet because it's fun, we're doing this to lose fat as quickly as possible.

*The above rant may or may not be applicable to the OP. My apologies to anyone offended.*

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by hardipsrai

In any sense, blaming a diet is a cheap way of denying that the negligence is on your part.

Not necessarily so.

I did the research and everyone said KETO doesnt raise cholesteral levels. I did blood work testing before and after my KETO diet. I followed the KETO diet strictly for 5 months, with a single carbup day each week. I kept fat at 65%, protein at 30% and carbs under 15g during this time. Took glucose disposal agents, did weight training, switched to splenda and stevia, ate many of the recipes recommended on this KETO forum etc.

The end result is that KETO did raise cholesteral and other blood test issues.

Now just think what would have happened if i cheated frequently during this time (note that i did have a two week crash during the 5 months).

[Random907]

Originally Posted by TheCaptain

Not necessarily so.

I did the research and everyone said KETO doesnt raise cholesteral levels. I did blood work testing before and after my KETO diet. I followed the KETO diet strictly for 5 months, with a single carbup day each week. I kept fat at 65%, protein at 30% and carbs under 15g during this time. Took glucose disposal agents, did weight training, switched to splenda and stevia, ate many of the recipes recommended on this KETO forum etc.

The end result is that KETO did raise cholesteral and other blood test issues.

Now just think what would have happened if i cheated frequently during this time (note that i did have a two week crash during the 5 months).

The only explanation that I can think of is that your body was not meant to do keto.

I've ran it at 7-8 months before without any negative consequences.

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by KingdomCome

You are some kind of weird opposite man, eh?

LMAO, thats gonna be my new tag line!

Yeah, for some reason i am an opposite man.

For example, anyone else would need steroids to do 70-90 sets of 8 rep exercises. While i have never done drugs.

I do cardio after weight training, which is supposed to be catabolic for others, but yet isnt so much for me.

I do abs and back exercises every day, while others get tired or sore.

I also change my hair style and hair color just about every weekend and dress differently all the time too. Maybe i am the original Opposite Man

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by KingdomCome

Furthermore, I thought you were on a steak and eggs diet, how did you manage to insert sausage and pepperoni in there?

No, dont confuse the two.

In January i did CKD and continued this until May, almost 5 months.

In May, i switched to a Steak and Eggs diet which for the first week or two was still high in fat. But, i eventually reduced this to 1g of protein per LBM, Fat under 20% and carbs as low as possible without entering ketosis.

I had my blood work done 2 weeks into my Steak and Egg diet. Just got back 2hr ago from visiting my doctor and getting the results back.
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In short, my doctors recommendations are similiar to my Steak and Eggs diet. Basically he suggests low fat, moderate protein and moderate carbs. A 40p/40c/20f diet. My Steak and Eggs diet, in its current state, is 65p/20f/15c.

[monkeys!]

A high fat diet is not a bad thing for cholesterol! Potentially a high SATURATED fat diet is (so says conventional medicine, which I am sure many of us doubt).

Even harvard agrees with this:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html

You can still EASILY do keto and stay away from saturated fats (although complete abstinence is bad no matter what you believe, you need some to be fully healthy). I try to get about 50-60% mono, 30-40 sat, and the rest of my polyunsaturated fats basically all come from fish and flax. Granted these are values off the top of my head, but it is usually somewhere around there.

[Random907]

Originally Posted by TheCaptain

No, dont confuse the two.

In January i did CKD and continued this until May, almost 5 months.

In May, i switched to a Steak and Eggs diet which for the first week or two was still high in fat. But, i eventually reduced this to 1g of protein per LBM, Fat under 20% and carbs as low as possible without entering ketosis.

I had my blood work done 2 weeks into my Steak and Egg diet. Just got back 2hr ago from visiting my doctor and getting the results back.
__________________________

In short, my doctors recommendations are similiar to my Steak and Eggs diet. Basically he suggests low fat, moderate protein and moderate carbs. A 40p/40c/20f diet. My Steak and Eggs diet, in its current state, is 65p/20f/15c.

So your bloodwork that you posted in your original post was for the CKD?

It seems to me that your problem with this new diet is the fact that you have made it into some kind of new, custom diet. It is no longer high fat, and ketosis based.

I'm damned sure the original CKD diet would have worked without hitch.

[johnnyironboard]

Originally Posted by TheCaptain

At this rate, if i do KETO for an entire year, i would reach Borderline High.

Strong extrapolation- from healthy to healthy to dead all in a year. Just have hash browns and a baked potato with your steak and eggs and everything will be fine. If your fat% is to high the sugar bowl is your savior.

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by KingdomCome

I'm damned sure the original CKD diet would have worked without hitch.

Your mis-reading this post. I followed the CKD diet strictly. From the time of the first bloodwork test till two weeks before the followup bloodwork test.

The Steak and Eggs diet came afterwords.

[Random907]

Originally Posted by TheCaptain

Your mis-reading this post. I followed the CKD diet strictly. From the time of the first bloodwork test till two weeks before the followup bloodwork test.

The Steak and Eggs diet came afterwords.

.......misunderstanding was more like it.

But thanks for the clarification. I don't really follow logs that well.

[xtrell]

Originally Posted by johnnyironboard

Strong extrapolation- from healthy to healthy to dead all in a year. Just have hash browns and a baked potato with your steak and eggs and everything will be fine. If your fat% is to high the sugar bowl is your savior.

lol

[muruku]

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cho...ol_myth_2.html

[Benji Snap]

I really hope saturated fat isn't unhealthy for us, seeing as though I eat about 150g a day lol... I drink 600ml of thickened cream daily 5 days a week.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by hardipsrai

Why would you maintain a Keto diet for a year? I mean, the benefit of the Keto diet, is the fact (as you mentioned) that you drop a lot of fat, fast. It is the 'bodybuilder's' diet, OBVIOUSLY, the typical diet, with a healthy amount of carbs, protein, fats is the way to go in the long run! Keto dieting, I think, should be the last resort for those who cannot shed the weight on a regular diet.

Some people can't tolerate carbs... like me. I will probably never go back to eating grain-based carbs: they raise my triglycerides; I am diabetic and insulin resistant.

[MissThing]

even with your blood work, you're in a small minority. I've know lots of people find that their cholestrol is lower on a low-carb (yeah high fat) diet.

[MissThing]

Originally Posted by muruku

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cho...ol_myth_2.html

I forgoty all about that site, lol! Barry Groves is good at de-bunking myths

[ironman1964bc]

Any total cholesterol under 170 or so usually means you are very sick or have cancer, lukemia, etc. My point is your rise in ldl to 120 may be a good thing and more where your body should be at a healthy state. Raising and lowering cholesterol just by diet changes alone is not an easy thing to do, as the liver will make up for the difference. I know people who eat junk food all the time who have a total cholesterol of 185 and I know veggies who have a total of 250. There would be no need for the multitude of drugs if diet could bring about such abrupt changes alone. Besides that, more heart patients have totals below 200 than above. Totals don't tell you what is sticking to your arteries (lesion damage by insulin) only what is floating around in your blood.

Carnivores don't drop dead of heart attacks and some of them live long lives. They also eat alot of organs too which is even higher in cholesterol. Man never experienced many heart attacks either until the 1920's or so, despite 1000's of years of meat eating. Saturated fat is also the best fat and it protects your cells from free radical damage better than any vitamin or anti-oxidant. It also is the same fat that your body stores in its fat reserves (palmatic acid). In other words, it is the body's preferred fuel.

I wouldn't worry about the rise in LDL but if you are, drop the processed meats and just eat red meat and eggs. Also, don't eat any carbs with your high fat meals....in fact, 15% carbs is a little too high.

[Eileen]

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/se...0weight%20loss

I thought this was relevant.

[tinhead]

did u fast for 12 hours before having your blood drawn? if u eat ANYTHING right before the test it could skew your results therefore resulting in your raised cholesterol.

[.ridiculous]

I am getting blood work done on friday. I have been on ckd for about a month. Wish me luck

[xtrell]

You don't need luck if you're doing it right.

[phabphour20]

Originally Posted by Eileen

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/se...0weight%20loss

I thought this was relevant.

Wow. Thank you for posting that. I just spent the last 24 hours reading everything he has written on that blog.

Finally, a doctor (and a cardiologist of all things) telling it like it is.

My god.

[ThrowUpTheMetal]

Originally Posted by TheCaptain

That said, i will discuss some changes to my Steak and Eggs diet based on this feedback. But, id be interested in what everyone has to say?

Does this mean we are all in for more needlessly long winded, self aggrandizing, posts?