Bruce lee vs. Royce Gracie

[bluemarlin04]

Originally posted by HulkHagen
Bench press means jack **** in a real fight or grappling match compared to technique and leverage.

Watch Quinton "Rampage" Jackson fight sometime. The guy doesn't even lift weights and he's probably the strongest 205 pound fighter in the world. The powerbomb he beat Ricardo Arona with was just inhuman.

Bruce Lee would probably get beat by Royce Gracie, BTW, but Royce isn't even considered a top fighter anymore. He was a legend in the early/mid 90's, but MMA has evolved past him.

Bruce Lee was a good martial artist for his time, and he was one of the pioneers of true cross training into different fighting styles, but some of the stuff you guys are saying is just ridiculous.

All Royce would have to do is pull guard on Bruce Lee and it would probably be over. If a world-class wrestler like Dan Severn, who weighed like 260 lbs, couldn't overpower or beat Royce while he was laying on top of him, I doubt Bruce Lee could muster up much offense.

And BTW, I would like to know what some of this ''underground fighting'' from Korea is that you're talking about, where they laugh at MMA fighters. If they're so tough why havent they come into Pride and collected an easy paycheck? It's probably just Muay Thai or Burmese boxing or something.

exactly the point im getting at. Lee would get manhandled by pride fighters of today. YOu guys are dumbasses saying he'd hit someone and go flying. no one flies across the room from a strike.

BRUCE's fighting prime is a myth...Royce's fighting prime is legendary...thats all I have to say

[Jeffery]

bruce lee will win

[SUPERHULK]

i'd have to say bruce would probably win in most any circumstances against most any fighter. bruce lee was first and formost a martial artist. he was then and still is today considered by most great martial artist to be the greatest martial artist who ever lived. he came to be an actor mainly because his fighting skills far exceeded any other martial artist that anyone had ever seen before. he kept studying, learning and teaching his art as long as he lived and developed his own style of fighting, which was actually no style at all, but it was freedom from style that allows an individual to adapt to any situation and be able to strike from any position. bruce lee studied extensively any and all fighting styles (including grappling & boxing) and did in fact adapt the useful techniques into his jeet kune do and discarded the bad. as someone else stated in their post, bruce lee studied the human body and was taught and learned the many pressure points that could incapacitate a man by a simple application of pressure to the appropriate spot. so i'm sure if any opponent even got close enough to get a grapple hold on lee he would either be able to use his own grappling skills to subdue his challenger or defend himself, or he would be able to strike with enough force to cause his opponent to release his hold, (in which he could obviously do because he only needed approximately an inch to strike. i know this because i have a couple of bruce lee videos with him demonstrating jeet kune do and the one inch punch and he knocked down another martial artist that was bracing himself for the punch to the chest). but if all else failed he could just attack his opponent using a pressure point hold and he would have no choice but release his grasp. i know there are many fighters out there today who have studied several styles of fighting but i am almost certain there are none that have seriously studied and mastered as many as bruce lee did. maybe there are a few out there that have studied several styles and mastered one. most of these so-called great fighters of today you can tell how great or dedicated they by just looking at them. most of them are either big but kind of flabby or average sized to small and not very muscular, where as bruce lee was basically an average sized man who kept his body in peak condition. he considered his body a weapon that must be taken extreme care of at all times and he did so. i seriously doubt that you could find a fighter or martial artist around today that has half of the love and dedication for martial arts or any other style of fighting that bruce lee did, because he lived and breathed it until his last breath. i know one thing is for certain, if ever i was in a fight against terrible odds and i could pick any one man from any time period to fight by my side it would most definitely without any shadow of a doubt be "BRUCE LEE".

[user762376438943]

More precisely, Bruce Lee is a killing machine, not a fighting machine. I have almost all of his books.
99% of the moves presented in his books are illegal in the fighting rings.

He advocates kicking someone in the balls, eye gouging, and fish-hooking. The ring disqualify that.
He advocates using weapons to defend yourself (and he was quite good with weapons, in this case, I am more than willing to bet that he can handle any of the MMA fighters with weapons). The ring disqualify that.
He advocates that idea of running if you're small (he said it himself in one of the John Tuttles book, "if you're a 90lb. woman, you better kick the 250lb. man in the ball and run, there is no way she can beat him"). You can't run in the ring.


As I said, Bruce Lee can kill you given a situation where he has to. He said he won't unless he has to. He even said it in most of the interviews, the difference between street and ring is that there are rules in ring. In the street, he can grab a bottle and throw it in your eyes to blind you. In the ring, he said you can barely do anything because you have to remember the rules like no kicking in the balls, no blinding someone, and so forth.

My 2cents is that while it is true that Bruce Lee may NOT amount to any fighters in ring, if you put any fighter and Bruce Lee in the street fight where all hell breaks lose, he stands a high chance.

To the people who worship Lee; he is a legend, I like Lee because he taught me something that has saved my life but nobody is as good as you all describe him. There will always be someone stronger than you (or him for this matter) and there will always be someone stronger than that person.

[user762376438943]

SUPERHULK

Uh... I am from Japan and my grandfather was in the police force in Japan. They taught the pressure point things to every officer and this is straight from my grandpa's mouth - "pressure point are bull****, they teach it as it is, entertaining and educational. The real fight is when you are struggling to win and you take what you know to beat (and arrest) him. In order to work the pressure point, that opponent must be still. In real life, your opponents are busy trying to run from you."

So if you know a lot about pressure points, good for you. It isn't gonna work on a raging madman running at you who is larger and taller than you.

[Absolut]

And BTW, I would like to know what some of this ''underground fighting'' from Korea is that you're talking about, where they laugh at MMA fighters. If they're so tough why havent they come into Pride and collected an easy paycheck? It's probably just Muay Thai or Burmese boxing or something.

In Korea people learn and use Tae Kwon Do or any other martial arts to discipline themselves. It is frowned upon to use this knowledge to actually fight people.

[SUPERHULK]

Swirlaze,

i was speaking of using the pressure points in a grappling hold situation, where an opponent had a hold of some sort. in that case he would not be running or moving very much. obviously you couldn't apply a pressure point to a running individual that would be ridiculous. also the pressure points shown or taught by some law enforcement agency my be how you say "BS" but to a true martial artist trained in how to use them effectively they are most assuredly for real. if you have ever had a demonstration of there effectiveness shown to you personally you would have no doubts. the only way it might not work is if the person whom it is being applied to were high on some sort of drugs that deadened the feelings in their body and muscles similar to PCP, but it doesn't matter the size of the person.

[MetaforeX]

If these pressure points are so effective then why haven't modern day practicioners of MMA study them? Surely if they were as great as some of you claim they would be used to break grappling holds in high level events like Pride and the UFC where there is often much money at stake. What was Bruce Lee...145-150? I'd bet my house that BJ Penn would dominate his ass. And then you think he can take modern day fighters that have 30 or more pounds on him? Get real. I'd bet on the average collegiate wrestler with a year of serious boxing training over Bruce Lee any day. That said..he was a great martial artist and the philosophy of cross-training he pioneered through JKD. But the way you guys make comparisons, it'd be like me saying the Model T is a superior car in craftsmanship and will dominate an Enzo Ferrari in handling, speed, etc, because it was the first.

[Oldschool]

LOL at allllllllll the people who think bruce lee would have done dammage to a modern fighter. Bruce Lee was a joke, he was good for his time that's about it.

[user762376438943]

Originally posted by SUPERHULK
Swirlaze,
i was speaking of using the pressure points in a grappling hold situation, where an opponent had a hold of some sort.

... Do you realize that when you're in a hold, say.. in my guard, the minute you let go of both of my hand to find my pressure point I will execute a move like the Crucifix or an armbar and subdue you.

in that case he would not be running or moving very much.
also the pressure points shown or taught by some law enforcement agency my be how you say "BS" but to a true martial artist trained in how to use them effectively they are most assuredly for real.

Reality is, pressure point do not work in application. PERIOD.

It especially doesn't work when I'm busy trying to hit your temple or your nose. Or (in a street fight) when I have a knife in my hand or worse possible situation, a gun.

if you have ever had a demonstration of there effectiveness shown to you personally you would have no doubts.

I had plenty from my grandpa and dad. I know and have more demonstration than you ever will in your entire life. Pressure point will NOT work in a real life situation where the enemy (and he knows that his life (or money in case of ring) is on the line) will put everything he knows into action and kill you.

[SUPERHULK]

i'm not a practioner of pressure points and it is probably few who practice it or are seroius enough about learning the techniques to learn how to do them correct or effectively. i don't imagine you will ever see them used in a fighting sport because there can be adverse side effects or certain risks from having pressure points applied to you, such as short or long term Paralysis of limbs, the rupturing of bood vessels even cause blood clots which could cause severe damage to the brain or heart possibly bringing about death. men are men not cars, they are all created equal from any time period barring a physical handicap. there were no men back then nor are there any now that were in or are in the peak physical condition that bruce lee was in, nor have i seen any since then that can come close to duplicating the incredible feats of skill and power concerning martial arts or battle that he could do. i'm sure most men out there who were actually born before bruce lee passed away and was able to actually see the man before he became the legend would agree. i rest my case. this is my last post on this subject because it is obviously impossible to teach the blind to see.

[Mike83]

Originally posted by Juggernaut
What about Ronnie Coleman with a gun vs. Mothra

haahahaha

[Reck]

Man I'm hate these discussions!

http://www.sherdog.com/videos/videos_main.asp

Draw your own conclusions! Bruce was good for what he was but he would not have stood a chance again a pro fighter.

[Muscle Clam]

A lot of you guys have never even fought Bruce Lee before, so how do you know how good he is? FOOLS

[violinlifter]

If this Royce dude tries to grapple Bruce Lee......seriously...Bruce would just chop him in his neck once and paralyze him or some **** like that. Or he'd break his neck. I bet he has the skill to.

[HulkHagen]

Originally posted by SUPERHULK
i know there are many fighters out there today who have studied several styles of fighting but i am almost certain there are none that have seriously studied and mastered as many as bruce lee did. maybe there are a few out there that have studied several styles and mastered one. most of these so-called great fighters of today you can tell how great or dedicated they by just looking at them. most of them are either big but kind of flabby or average sized to small and not very muscular, where as bruce lee was basically an average sized man who kept his body in peak condition. he considered his body a weapon that must be taken extreme care of at all times and he did so. i seriously doubt that you could find a fighter or martial artist around today that has half of the love and dedication for martial arts or any other style of fighting that bruce lee did, because he lived and breathed it until his last breath

Looks and how chiseled you are doesn't apply in fighting or martial arts. Fighting and body building are two different things, and your body fat percentage isn't always an indicator of how healthy and good a fighter you are overall.

If you judge how good a fighter someone is by how lean and shredded they are, then you'd be in for many suprises and disappointments.

BTW, in some of the earlier UFC and other MMA events, there were fighters who claimed Jeet Kune Do as their backgrounds and they were almost always dispatched of in short order. If they were using the same techniques Bruce Lee used during his lifetime, why didn't they use the pressure points and incapacitate fighters the way Bruce Lee did?

The human body does have pressure points and areas that are weaker and more sensitive than others, but there isn't any one area that you can just put pressure on for a second and put someone to sleep with it, that's a myth. The closest thing would probably be to cut off blood flow to the arteries in the neck that supply blood to the brain but even that takes like 30 seconds to do.

Bruce Lee was a ground breaking martial artist, no doubt, but he's like an old fishing story, the fish keeps getting bigger the older the story gets.

[HulkHagen]

Originally posted by violinlifter
If this Royce dude tries to grapple Bruce Lee......seriously...Bruce would just chop him in his neck once and paralyze him or some **** like that. Or he'd break his neck. I bet he has the skill to.

Violin... I consider you a smart guy and all but c'mon.

From the looks of your post, you don't really even know who Royce or the Gracie family in general even are, so how could you really be clued in to martial arts to make such claims? There aren't any Vulcan Death Grips or chops to the neck that can put someone to sleep with one hit in real life, that is fiction. If there were don't you think we'd actually see them used in martial arts tournaments and things like that? We don't, because they don't exist.

Royce Gracie weighs 170 lbs and he tapped out Dan Severn, a 260 lb world class wrestler, whilst Severn was on top of Gracie, and he did it without even using his arms, so I think he might know a thing or two about breaking people's bones.

I don't doubt Bruce may have been a little versed in grappling... hell, there's a picture of him putting an arm bar on someone, but even in the picture, Bruce has his legs positioned wrong. Royce Gracie recently schooled Hidehiko Yoshida, a 210 lb Judo Gold Medalist, so Royce isn't just familar with ground work like Bruce probably was, Royce is a master at it.

[Oo-rah]

I wonder who would win if it was Bruce Lee vs. Brain Hemhorrage. Oh wait...

[iceberg]

Originally posted by Danz
A simple formula for you:

BRUCE LEE vs. (insert ANY name) = (insert any name) in coffin.

Bruce Lee was not an actor......Before he got into films he used to be a proffesional street fighter in the Bronx in NYC and he used to take down gangs single-handedly. Word got round how good of a fighter he was and before long, he was on his way to Hollywood.

He is a LEGEND. He used to send people flying across the room with a single kick to the shins and he used to do somersaults that would give today's Olypmpic gymnasts a run for their money.

He INVENTED a new style of fighting and to even compare him to ANYONE is a personal insult to bruce himself - end of story.

x1000

The Bruce Lee myth refuses to die, huh? HE WAS A HOLLYWOOD CREATION, people. He's no superhero, and he did not possess mystical powers. He was nothing more than a little ripped asian guy who did neat stuff in front of the camera, and would get his ass stomped into a bloody stain in the Octagon.

[iceberg]

Originally posted by BigPoppaPump_15
ok soarer......that was a complete waste of a post. Why are there so many idiots out there like you?!

Conversely, why are there so gullible and moronic Bruce Lee jock riders like you?

[Soarer]

you ****ing retard big poppa pump the 15th.....

still in this thread there is no documented evidence of bruces groundbreaking championship records in martial arts HE IS A ****ING MYTH YES, unfortunatley he died so get the **** over it

there is to many stories of how bruce did this and bruce did that, but still it just proves how bruce was nothing more than an actor so get the **** off his nuts his claim to fame was from gymnastics on movie sets not winning world ****ing titles...............

[BigZeke]

I say advantage Gracie, just because we have seen him fight in real life versus another person. All of Lee's fights were on camera, choreographed in movies. Not saying he didn't have talent, it's obvious he did. We just have never seen him fight someone in real life, whereas we have with Gracie. It's like asking who would win in a fight Jesus or Moses? Or Ditka or a Hurricane? Nobody knows!!

[sikboy]

Originally posted by Oo-rah
I wonder who would win if it was Bruce Lee vs. Brain Hemhorrage. Oh wait...

Could anyone win against a brain hemhorrage? I think not! This is a retarded statement
There is an interesting article on Bruce, over at www.mikementzer.com in the articles section, entitled.
Warm Marble, the lethal physique of Bruce Lee.

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by BigZeke
I say advantage Gracie, just because we have seen him fight in real life versus another person. All of Lee's fights were on camera, choreographed in movies. Not saying he didn't have talent, it's obvious he did. We just have never seen him fight someone in real life, whereas we have with Gracie. It's like asking who would win in a fight Jesus or Moses? Or Ditka or a Hurricane? Nobody knows!!

wtf ******* you dare doubt ditka????? BURN IN HELL!!!!!

[Absolut]

Originally posted by iceberg
x1000

The Bruce Lee myth refuses to die, huh? HE WAS A HOLLYWOOD CREATION, people. He's no superhero, and he did not possess mystical powers. He was nothing more than a little ripped asian guy who did neat stuff in front of the camera, and would get his ass stomped into a bloody stain in the Octagon.

I agree with the completely that this thread is full of ignorant people. First of all Bruce Lee was NOT an actor. He was a martial artist, until some people discovered that martial arts can be great in movies. All you people who don't know anything about Bruce Lee besides his movies and his name don't know what you are talking about. He dedicated his WHOLE LIFE to training and becoming the best martial artist.

[honeybbqgrundle]

Originally posted by Absolut
I agree with the completely that this thread is full of ignorant people. First of all Bruce Lee was NOT an actor. He was a martial artist, until some people discovered that martial arts can be great in movies. All you people who don't know anything about Bruce Lee besides his movies and his name don't know what you are talking about. He dedicated his WHOLE LIFE to training and becoming the best martial artist.

Thank you. People either think Lee was a God or a little pussy. He was simply an excellent martial artist, not the best ever, not some unstoppable machine. A fight between him and Gracie would be very close imo, but Gracie won't win just because he's bigger or Lee because he's faster. If it goes to the ground, Lee would lose assuming there were rules in place, but don't think for a second that a punch or kick from Bruce Lee won't seriously hurt anyone, whether they're 100 or 350 lbs.

[user762376438943]

Originally posted by SUPERHULK
i'm not a practioner of pressure points and it is probably few who practice it or are seroius enough about learning the techniques to learn how to do them correct or effectively. i don't imagine you will ever see them used in a fighting sport because there can be adverse side effects or certain risks from having pressure points applied to you, such as short or long term Paralysis of limbs, the rupturing of bood vessels even cause blood clots which could cause severe damage to the brain or heart possibly bringing about death. men are men not cars, they are all created equal from any time period barring a physical handicap. there were no men back then nor are there any now that were in or are in the peak physical condition that bruce lee was in, nor have i seen any since then that can come close to duplicating the incredible feats of skill and power concerning martial arts or battle that he could do. i'm sure most men out there who were actually born before bruce lee passed away and was able to actually see the man before he became the legend would agree. i rest my case. this is my last post on this subject because it is obviously impossible to teach the blind to see.

OK, you go learn your pressure points. I'll learn Jiu Jitsu from my grandpa and h2h and boxing from my dad when he was in the marine. I'll also go watch all of Bas Rutten's tapes on training and esp my fav, his Lethal SF DVD.
Furthermore, I lift weight and run.
I know I'll have more people betting on me if this was a fight between you and I.

So go ahead, take your time, take years and years to learn your pressure point. Maybe learn a karate move or two. It could help.

I gotta go punch the bag, so later.

[Apotheosis]

yay bas rutten11111111111

[iceberg]

Originally posted by Absolut
I agree with the completely that this thread is full of ignorant people. First of all Bruce Lee was NOT an actor. He was a martial artist, until some people discovered that martial arts can be great in movies. All you people who don't know anything about Bruce Lee besides his movies and his name don't know what you are talking about. He dedicated his WHOLE LIFE to training and becoming the best martial artist.

Whatever, fellows. Be taken in by a Hollywood creation if you wish. I do find it odd that EVERY single sport continues to see better and better athletes every year, and their records continue to be challenged or broken. Not martial arts, though. The greatest ever lived 30+ years ago.

Not to mention the fact that he never even competed in a sanctioned event...

[Absolut]

Originally posted by iceberg
Whatever, fellows. Be taken in by a Hollywood creation if you wish. I do find it odd that EVERY single sport continues to see better and better athletes every year, and their records continue to be challenged or broken. Not martial arts, though. The greatest ever lived 30+ years ago.

Not to mention the fact that he never even competed in a sanctioned event...

You are the epitomy of ignorance. Like I said Bruce Lee never aspired to become an actor in the first place. He was discovered by people working in the industry.

Of course as time goes by there will be better athletes in sports but Royce Graicie against Bruce Lee in his prime has no chance, in or out of the ring.

Like I said before people do martial arts to be disciplined, not to beat people up. Bruce Lee trained NOT to win money or to fight but to discipline himself.

You're probably some 15 year old who only watch the movies of Bruce Lee. Hollywood did not create him, he created the martial arts era. Another point, why would Hollywood randomly find some chinese guy to be in their movies and THEN train him to be some awsome martial artist? They didn't. Bruce Lee's first passion was martial arts not movies. Have you ever heard of an actor creating a new form of martial arts? No.

Another point, Kazushi Sakuraba AKA 'The Graicie Hunter' defeated Rickson Gracie who is claimed to be the best of the Gracie family. If you've seen pics or videos of Kazushi Sakuraba, you can see he's not even that big, yet he's defeating guys who can probably lift twice as much weight as he can.